Blackmagic Desgin Cinema Cameras

[Fyfey96]

Hey, 

 

I currently have a Canon EOS 60D and I have for the last 4 years. I shot photographs and video with this but no professional work like weddings etc but I am very keen in amateur film making and I crave better video quality and my EOS60D don't really cut it for me anymore obviously because it's a DSLR. I was looking to go full frame but feel like I'll want to focus more on video production work rather than photos. So the EOS 60D is more than sufficient for my photo uses. So I've decided to look into the black magic desgin cinema cameras. More specifically the Pocket Cinema Camera and the Cinema Camera.

Here are my thoughts and any input would be much appreciated..

 

So I currently have 3 lens for my 60D, a 15-85 EFS lens, a 50mm 1.4 and a 70-300mm.

 

so if I was to purchase the Pocket Cinema Camera it is micro four thirds so I would get a metabones speed booster to adapt my canon lenses to fit. So that in total would cost about £1400

 

there is also the cinema cameras that come with EF-Mount so I wouldn't need an adapter but then I wouldn't be able to use the 15-85mm because it's for cropped sensors only. 

The 2.7K version is £1700 and the 4K version £2600 both full frame. 

 

So I am trying to decide if I would be better to adapt the Pocket Cinema Camera for the canon lenses or go for the Cinema Camera.

Budget isn't really much of an issue but as I said I'm not going to be doing an major work like professional grade or anything. So should I go Pocket Cinema camera or go cinema camera, is there any significant benefits over the other that would matter. And if so 2.7K or 4K? 4K is not as a common of thing at the moment so thinking the Pocket would be cool at 1080P such a hard decision any thoughts and help would be apreciated.

 

Thanks

Alistair 

 

 

[H4nn3s]

The normal cinema camera uses a super 35 sensor that is small than aps-c, so you should be able to use the 15-85mm. If you have the money, I would take the 4k cinema camera.

[Fyfey96]

7 minutes ago, H4nn3s said:

The normal cinema camera uses a super 35 sensor that is small than aps-c, so you should be able to use the 15-85mm. If you have the money, I would take the 4k cinema camera.

Ohh it says on there website it's a "large 35mm sensor"??  Yea the 4K is tempting but a lot of cash I'm not sure if necessary  

[H4nn3s]

5 minutes ago, Fyfey96 said:

Ohh it says on there website it's a "large 35mm sensor"??  Yea the 4K is tempting but a lot of cash I'm not sure if necessary  

It's probably only there because people think bigger sensors are always better, but if you look under Tech Specs it says sensor size 22mm x 11,88mm while aps-c is usually about 22.4mm x 14.9mm.

[Fyfey96]

2 minutes ago, H4nn3s said:

It's probably only there because people think bigger sensors are always better, but if you look under Tech Specs it says sensor size 22mm x 11,88mm while aps-c is usually about 22.4mm x 14.9mm.

Ahh brilliant. Thanks so much for the information  

[H4nn3s]

1 minute ago, Fyfey96 said:

Ahh brilliant. Thanks so much for the information  

Glad I was able to help

[zdog16]

If budget is not much of an issue go with the 4K. Don't think that 4K isn't much of a thing right now. Almost all professional films today are shot in 4K, most in an even higher resolution like 4.5 or 6K, and then mastered down to 1080p for distribution. Even if you don't initially use the resolution when you first get the camera, you will future proof yourself for that one time in 2 years when you get a client that wants the final cut delivered in 4K. With the wave of affordable 4K TVs hitting the market 4K is coming closer and closer to mainstream adoption. If you have a flexible budget go for the higher end option so that you can grow into it. Most people don't buy 4K cameras because of budget restrictions, if you don't have those budget restrictions get the best gear available. 

 

 

[Fyfey96]

15 minutes ago, zdog16 said:

If budget is not much of an issue go with the 4K. Don't think that 4K isn't much of a thing right now. Almost all professional films today are shot in 4K, most in an even higher resolution like 4.5 or 6K, and then mastered down to 1080p for distribution. Even if you don't initially use the resolution when you first get the camera, you will future proof yourself for that one time in 2 years when you get a client that wants the final cut delivered in 4K. With the wave of affordable 4K TVs hitting the market 4K is coming closer and closer to mainstream adoption. If you have a flexible budget go for the higher end option so that you can grow into it. Most people don't buy 4K cameras because of budget restrictions, if you don't have those budget restrictions get the best gear available. 

 

 

Yea toying between to the 2.4K and 4K model and its future proof im thinking of but an extra £1000!

[zdog16]

4 minutes ago, Fyfey96 said:

Yea toying between to the 2.4K and 4K model and its future proof im thinking of but an extra £1000!

He said budget is not really a problem, which is the only reason I would give that advise. If you are on a tight budget then you should only go with what you really need, but if you have the money, and are willing to spend it, it may be worth your investment in the future. Both camera specs are great, and besides the resolution I don't know of any other feature differences. It will ultimately come down to how much money you are willing to spend. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

2 hours ago, H4nn3s said:

The normal cinema camera uses a super 35 sensor that is small than aps-c, so you should be able to use the 15-85mm. If you have the money, I would take the 4k cinema camera.

 

1 hour ago, H4nn3s said:

It's probably only there because people think bigger sensors are always better, but if you look under Tech Specs it says sensor size 22mm x 11,88mm while aps-c is usually about 22.4mm x 14.9mm.

Actually there's no set size for Super35, you can say that Super35 and APS-C are very similar in size.

On the BlackMagic Ursa Mini 4K the sensor size is 22 x 11.8mm

On the 4.6K version the sensor size is 25.34 x 14.25mm

 

In fact, Super35 depending on the aspect ratio has various sizes.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Fyfey96 said:

 

On thing I will warn you about BlackMagic cameras, while they are good and they cost a lot less than many competitors, they also require extra investment in accessories just to make them into a proper kit that the cost adds up and can become just as expensive as the competition.

[AkiraDaarkst]

So, @OP, what kind of stuff will you film with the camera?

[Fyfey96]

3 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

So, @OP, what kind of stuff will you film with the camera?

Yea I noticed the lack of attachments and noted they are quite expensive lol. I have shoulder rig and stuff at the moment which I presume would be compatible as it's a standard and I will be mostly shooting short films and other general video as a hobby. Maybe in the future could potentially do weddings and events as my cousin has a good base for this and could work with him. I'm thinking the Pocket Cinema Camera is all I really need though the other ones are tempting but a lot more expensive. The Pocket camera is also a bit easier with just SD cards and not SSDs 

[AkiraDaarkst]

17 minutes ago, Fyfey96 said:

Yea I noticed the lack of attachments and noted they are quite expensive lol. I have shoulder rig and stuff at the moment which I presume would be compatible as it's a standard and I will be mostly shooting short films and other general video as a hobby. Maybe in the future could potentially do weddings and events as my cousin has a good base for this and could work with him. I'm thinking the Pocket Cinema Camera is all I really need though the other ones are tempting but a lot more expensive. The Pocket camera is also a bit easier with just SD cards and not SSDs 

If your intention is to use the camera for actual work (even if it's in the future) get the bigger Cinema Camera or the Ursa Mini.  The reason I say this is because it takes time to get to know a camera, so if you buy the Pocket CC and decide to work with your cousin say for example in a year or two in the future, you probably will want to get a better camera for the job and it will take a while to get used to working with any new camera and learning its quirks.  So buy a good one from the beginning and take the time to master using it, but only if your intention to work with the camera is serious.

 

If it's for hobby, amateur productions, get the Pocket CC.

 

The biggest problem I personally have with both cameras is battery life, however the Pocket CC should have the ability to be powered by a USB power bank.  Similar to Sony mirrorless cameras.

 

With the bigger CC, I don't think it can be powered by a USB bank and the battery is integrated so you can't change batteries or if it's faulty you will have to send it back for servicing.  You'd have to rely V-locks or Gold-lock batteries and use a D-tap source if you want portable extended power.

 

I'm not sure about the screens of either camera, and I will assume their visibility will not be great in broad daylight outdoor use.

 

For how you plan to use it, the rigging, think about what you will need to invest in if you want to rig it for different uses.  Both cameras will require extra accessories for shoulder mounting and may require investing in an external viewfinder.

 

For tripod mounting, it's not much of an issue.  But if you attach heavy lenses, you will have to figure out where to balance the setup.

 

Filming in ProRes or Cinema DNG RAW will eat up storage space fast, especially if you film in 4K.  So make sure your editing rig has enough storage space.  And a lot of spare memory cards/SSDs.

[Fyfey96]

@AkiraDaarkst thanks all the information is really useful. Yea I have a NAS for storage and a bit good pc so no worries there. Maybe with the price difference it might be worth the URSA Mini?? And get 60FPS too

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 hour ago, Fyfey96 said:

@AkiraDaarkst thanks all the information is really useful. Yea I have a NAS for storage and a bit good pc so no worries there. Maybe with the price difference it might be worth the URSA Mini?? And get 60FPS too

How much do you want to spend?

 

If you go the route of the Ursa Mini 4K, this is what you're looking at as a minimum investment, in UK prices without VAT.

• Ursa Mini 4K EF mount GBP 2,200.00
• Ursa Viewfinder GBP 1,195.00
• 128GB CFast 2.0 cards, GBP 294.00 each, you will want a few of them or higher capacity ones which will cost more.  You definitely want to have enough cards and storage space to last you at least a day.
• Battery plate GBP 75.56
• V-lock batteries and a charger, again you will want a couple of batteries to give you sufficient power for an entire day of shooting, around GBP 250.00 each for the batteries and GBP 200.00 for a dual charger
• You will also want a shoulder rig, the cheapest and not really the best rig is the one designed by BlackMagic for the Ursa Mini, GBP 297.78.  Better ones cost more.

This doesn't include the cost of lenses, bags, lights, and other accessories.

[Fyfey96]

Well I'm stupid in the way to spend the money and get the best but I really don't need that. I really like the look of the Pocket Camera but it's only 1080P and I would need to adapt it. So the extra cost to go to the 4K maybe be worth it? 

@AkiraDaarkst the Pocket camera is also good as it would require less invest as I already have a few SD cards etc and would fit my current shoulder mount, I have audio recording gear and stuff so I really only need the better quality. I'm shooting 1080P at the Moment so I guess I don't really need 4K I fell like the investment might not be necessary at the Moment. But the thing that concerns me is the crop factor 

[AkiraDaarkst]

39 minutes ago, Fyfey96 said:

Well I'm stupid in the way to spend the money and get the best but I really don't need that. I really like the look of the Pocket Camera but it's only 1080P and I would need to adapt it. So the extra cost to go to the 4K maybe be worth it? 

@AkiraDaarkst the Pocket camera is also good as it would require less invest as I already have a few SD cards etc and would fit my current shoulder mount, I have audio recording gear and stuff so I really only need the better quality. I'm shooting 1080P at the Moment so I guess I don't really need 4K I fell like the investment might not be necessary at the Moment. But the thing that concerns me is the crop factor 

Have you considered other camera options like a Panasonic, Canon, Sony?  They make camcorders that are 4K capable.  Panasonic and Sony also makes photo cameras with 4K video capability.  If you need to record into formats like ProRes you can use external monitor/recorders like the BlackMagic Video Assist or various models by Atomos.

 

What kind of stuff do you currently film?

[Fyfey96]

31 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Have you considered other camera options like a Panasonic, Canon, Sony?  They make camcorders that are 4K capable.  Panasonic and Sony also makes photo cameras with 4K video capability.  If you need to record into formats like ProRes you can use external monitor/recorders like the BlackMagic Video Assist or various models by Atomos.

 

What kind of stuff do you currently film?

I've looked at a couple of sonys but the blackmagic stuff also looked pretty good. I've done some short films and just general hobby cinematic stuff. Yea I was looking at video assistant before but I think there hard to get infact a lot of the black magic stuff seems to be. I don't really need to record in any specific format I just want to better my video quality so my options are still open 

[xQubeZx]

On 2017-01-02 at 9:46 AM, Fyfey96 said:

I've looked at a couple of sonys but the blackmagic stuff also looked pretty good. I've done some short films and just general hobby cinematic stuff. Yea I was looking at video assistant before but I think there hard to get infact a lot of the black magic stuff seems to be. I don't really need to record in any specific format I just want to better my video quality so my options are still open 

Considered a Sony A7s ii and a sort of cage for that one to attach mics, batterypacks, and so on.