Should I request a refund?

[fammiloggaretiprego]

I'm not sure how relevant this is on this forum however I wanted to share the experience I had with PC Specialist who are a very famous custom built pc/laptop retailer in UK.

I purchased their top of the line Octane 3 with 4k display, gtx 1080 and i7 6700K cpu for 2.3 grand last month. What a deal, right? I can barely get these specs for 2k in a PC not counting having to purchase a monitor separately.

The laptop arrived after 2 weeks, professional packaging and amazing performances. After about 1 hour of BF1 at 4k Ultra settings, no problems 60 fps fluid gaming. I Alt+Tabbed to check my temperatues on HWM monitor and a few other ones (cpu temp, speedfan etc) and the Max temperature for both CPU and GPU was around 100 C.

I was worried this would ruin my pc in the long run so I contacted them and they sent a courier to pick my laptop up for free and repair it.

One week later the laptop is back, the "technician" who took care of my laptop sent an e-mail saying that he had encountered my problems (including a slightly annoying screen bleed effect) and had fixed it getting a max temp of 73 degrees on the cpu.

Alright then! Time to FINALLY get on and do some gaming!!

After 30 minutes of BF1, same settings, same performance, 100C on the CPU and GPU. Did they even get my laptop out of its packaging? Was it a straight out lie? am I doing something wrong? I doubt i'm doing something wrong as my PC is sitting on a normal wooden table, plugged in to the wall, no wild stress tests.

I thought maybe BF1 is an intense game? I fired up overwatch and after not even 20-30 minutes the on screen information was reading 90C temperatures. Now I was playing at max settings, true, but the game was running at 70fps which means the computer wasn't having too much trouble running it, it's not under any particular stress therefore shouldn't run at those temperatures (correct me if I'm wrong).

I am now strongly considering getting a refund and building a PC myself, however the reason I went for a laptop originally was caused by the fact that I travel a lot and move houses a lot so I feel like it's a bummer I have to give up on this laptop as the performance is great and doesn't throttle at these temps.

My final question is should I refund it? considering that the temps in the long run would damage my components, or is this normal for a laptop with a 1080 in it? What's the best thing to do here?

Any suggestions? thoughts?

[Alpine]

Laptops don't have much room for cooling, they usually throttle at those temperatures too. Maybe buy a laptop cooler or next time just build your own. 

That's just the way it is with laptops.

[Megah3rtz]

I would. 

[Pyrotechnika]

If you are disappointed in it you should request a refund.

[Pendragon]

You need liquid metal. Repaste it. Delid it. I've never recommended this model to non enthusiasts out of the box because it requires alot of fixes and mods to make it work. @D2ultima is the best to explain more about how to get this model working optimal as I've never used a full dtr for a daily driver. Only played with it for a bit. 

[D2ultima]

3 hours ago, Alpine said:

Laptops don't have much room for cooling, they usually throttle at those temperatures too. Maybe buy a laptop cooler or next time just build your own. 

That's just the way it is with laptops.

No it isn't.

 

3 hours ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

-snip-

Is that a single GPU model? The P775DM3? If so, then the machine indeed gets very hot under load. I would return it and if you want, buy the P870DM2 model with a single 1080 and 6700K. It'll cool much better. You also will need Liquid Ultra on you CPU for the most part, and gaming with maximum fanspeeds toggled on (fn + 1) is almost a necessity.

 

[Pendragon]

2 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

The P775DM3

Yea it is. 

[fammiloggaretiprego]

6 hours ago, D2ultima said:

 

 

Is that a single GPU model? The P775DM3? If so, then the machine indeed gets very hot under load. I would return it and if you want, buy the P870DM2 model with a single 1080 and 6700K. It'll cool much better. You also will need Liquid Ultra on you CPU for the most part, and gaming with maximum fanspeeds toggled on (fn + 1) is almost a necessity.

 

I bought the laptop from pc specialists, they custom built it for me with those specs (1080 and 6700k). Sadly I don't think Sager laptops are available in UK, I've tried to find a website or anything that isn't in US Dollars. Finding a decent gaming laptop is such a nightmare in UK that the only way was getting it custom built. If only it didn't reach 100 degrees playing overwatch... 

[D2ultima]

5 hours ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

I bought the laptop from pc specialists, they custom built it for me with those specs (1080 and 6700k). Sadly I don't think Sager laptops are available in UK, I've tried to find a website or anything that isn't in US Dollars. Finding a decent gaming laptop is such a nightmare in UK that the only way was getting it custom built. If only it didn't reach 100 degrees playing overwatch... 

• You didn't get much "custom built". It's a Clevo barebones, the same barebones that Sager uses. Sager doesn't make these computers, but you have one that they sell. The Clevo P775DM3.
• That laptop isn't capable of easily handling the 1080 + 6700K. It needs a lot of user modding and I've been cautioning people against it. As it stands, your current situation can only be described as "normal", and their "73c max" is a flat out lie which you should call them out on, as even with maximum fanspeed forced, the laptop propped up, the 6700K delidded with Liquid Metal thermal paste used between the IHS and bare die, as well as between the IHS and the heatsink, all the thermal pads replaced with 17m/wk pads of the correct height, a perfectly fitting heatsink, lots of undervolting on the CPU and some good old silicon lottery, you will never achieve 73c under max load playing something like BF1 on ultra (Overwatch should be ok with all that modding though). Maybe if you shoved the machine on an A/C vent.
• mySN.co.uk and Scan UK also rebrand Clevo, so you can use them.
• I suggest returning the machine and getting a new model. The model you want is the SLI model with the 6700K, but you're going to get a single 1080 with it. It'll keep the stuff much cooler, though you'll probably need to use Liquid Ultra on the CPU and delid it still.
• Alternately, HIDevolution poses themselves to be a worldwide company and have international warranty you can pay for, but that one is up to you entirely. It still might be more expensive than mysn or scan uk, however they do offer delidding the 6700K and using liquid metal as a service you can pay for.

[Pendragon]

5 hours ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

I bought the laptop from pc specialists, they custom built it for me with those specs (1080 and 6700k). Sadly I don't think Sager laptops are available in UK, I've tried to find a website or anything that isn't in US Dollars. Finding a decent gaming laptop is such a nightmare in UK that the only way was getting it custom built. If only it didn't reach 100 degrees playing overwatch... 

Please. PCSpecialist uses Clevos. The P775DM3  is your Octane 3. P870DM2 is the Vortex. But PCSpecialists doesn't sell the Vortex in a lower config. Get it from XMG. www.myse.co.uk

[fammiloggaretiprego]

45 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

• You didn't get much "custom built". It's a Clevo barebones, the same barebones that Sager uses. Sager doesn't make these computers, but you have one that they sell. The Clevo P775DM3.
• That laptop isn't capable of easily handling the 1080 + 6700K. It needs a lot of user modding and I've been cautioning people against it. As it stands, your current situation can only be described as "normal", and their "73c max" is a flat out lie which you should call them out on, as even with maximum fanspeed forced, the laptop propped up, the 6700K delidded with Liquid Metal thermal paste used between the IHS and bare die, as well as between the IHS and the heatsink, all the thermal pads replaced with 17m/wk pads of the correct height, a perfectly fitting heatsink, lots of undervolting on the CPU and some good old silicon lottery, you will never achieve 73c under max load playing something like BF1 on ultra (Overwatch should be ok with all that modding though). Maybe if you shoved the machine on an A/C vent.
• mySN.co.uk and Scan UK also rebrand Clevo, so you can use them.
• I suggest returning the machine and getting a new model. The model you want is the SLI model with the 6700K, but you're going to get a single 1080 with it. It'll keep the stuff much cooler, though you'll probably need to use Liquid Ultra on the CPU and delid it still.
• Alternately, HIDevolution poses themselves to be a worldwide company and have international warranty you can pay for, but that one is up to you entirely. It still might be more expensive than mysn or scan uk, however they do offer delidding the 6700K and using liquid metal as a service you can pay for.

 

43 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Please. PCSpecialist uses Clevos. The P775DM3  is your Octane 3. P870DM2 is the Vortex. But PCSpecialists doesn't sell the Vortex in a lower config. Get it from XMG. www.myse.co.uk

sorry guys I didn't know! thanks for all the info, you guys sure do know a lot

 

I'll request a refund today so I can at least keep my laptop for the weekend and return on Monday. 

 

I'll have a look at your suggestions, what do you guys think of the new alienware 17? it has the same configuration as mine more or less except the processor is a 6820hk not a 6700k, that's the only tradeoff. it costs 2300£ during black Friday sale 

[D2ultima]

1 minute ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

 

sorry guys I didn't know! thanks for all the info, you guys sure do know a lot

 

I'll request a refund today so I can at least keep my laptop for the weekend and return on Monday. 

 

I'll have a look at your suggestions, what do you guys think of the new alienware 17? it has the same configuration as mine more or less except the processor is a 6820hk not a 6700k, that's the only tradeoff. it costs 2300£ during black Friday sale 

It's my hobby, and I'm smart =D.

 

Good.

 

Alienware has been shown to have problems with their heatsink design for the new models. I know it affects the AW15 R3 but I don't know if it affects the AW17 R4. Either way, however, I would consider them as a worthless brand this time. Also I heard that their 1080N models aren't very good for cooling either. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/warning-some-i7-6820hks-and-i7-6700hq-have-uneven-core-temps-due-to-uneven-heatsink.797477/ here's the compilation of information about their CPU heatsink crap.

[Pendragon]

29 minutes ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

new alienware 17?

If you're comfortable modding the amount you would need to get a P775DM3 to work, then an Alienware would work too. The uneven pressure on the heatsink needs to be literally hardware modded and replacing the paste with liquid metal + fujipoly extreme thermal pads

[fammiloggaretiprego]

11 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

If you're comfortable modding the amount you would need to get a P775DM3 to work, then an Alienware would work too. The uneven pressure on the heatsink needs to be literally hardware modded and replacing the paste with liquid metal + fujipoly extreme thermal pads

I didn't know what half of the words you wrote meant so I'm probably not prepared to do any modding haha! So also alienware laptops have issues. I have money to spend and can't find a decent laptop with a 1080 on the market how's this possible? Do you have any recommendations for a laptop that just works without any crazy modding involved? I tried going to myse.co.uk like you said but that website doesn't exist.. or at least it's not listed on google. sorry for all the questions but i'm really lost right now

[Pendragon]

17 minutes ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

I didn't know what half of the words you wrote meant so I'm probably not prepared to do any modding haha! So also alienware laptops have issues. I have money to spend and can't find a decent laptop with a 1080 on the market how's this possible? Do you have any recommendations for a laptop that just works without any crazy modding involved? I tried going to myse.co.uk like you said but that website doesn't exist.. or at least it's not listed on google. sorry for all the questions but i'm really lost right now

https://twitter.com/xmg_uk

 

They are having issues with their website for whatever reason. Their European website still works. https://www.mysn.de/xmg-ultimate-gaming-notebooks/xmg-u727

 

Edit: Wait, wtf...LOL their European websites don't offer single 1080. WTF LOL. 

Though you'd probably want to wait for the UK site to come back up. They traditionally offer it. 

[fammiloggaretiprego]

Just now, Pendragon said:

https://twitter.com/xmg_uk

 

They are having issues with their website for whatever reason. Their European website still works. https://www.mysn.de/xmg-ultimate-gaming-notebooks/xmg-u717. 

 

Though you'd probably want to wait for the UK site to come back up. 

I also tried buying the Razer Blade Pro with a 1080 but once you click " buy now " it stops working, is black friday making all computer websites crash haha

[Pendragon]

1 minute ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

I also tried buying the Razer Blade Pro with a 1080 but once you click " buy now " it stops working, is black friday making all computer websites crash haha

LOL the Razer Blade Pro is even worse. 

[fammiloggaretiprego]

Just now, Pendragon said:

LOL the Razer Blade Pro is even worse. 

wooops. I looked at the website you gave me btw and the laptop is the exact same as the one I have now, would they just do extra modding to make it work? cause if I got the same laptop same config and same problem i'd probably drill a hole in my head

[Pendragon]

3 minutes ago, fammiloggaretiprego said:

wooops. I looked at the website you gave me btw and the laptop is the exact same as the one I have now, would they just do extra modding to make it work? cause if I got the same laptop same config and same problem i'd probably drill a hole in my head

Nope I fucked up. I changed the link. Look at the edit. 

[Pendragon]

1 hour ago, D2ultima said:

Alienware has been shown to have problems with their heatsink design for the new models. I know it affects the AW15 R3 but I don't know if it affects the AW17 R4. Either way, however, I would consider them as a worthless brand this time. Also I heard that their 1080N models aren't very good for cooling either. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/warning-some-i7-6820hks-and-i7-6700hq-have-uneven-core-temps-due-to-uneven-heatsink.797477/ here's the compilation of information about their CPU heatsink crap.

iunlock has done wonders on them though. aftermarket. the underlying cooling system seems pretty good.

[D2ultima]

11 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

iunlock has done wonders on them though. aftermarket. the underlying cooling system seems pretty good.

iunlock has done a LOT of tinkering and testing though. It's not something I will ever ask a normal user to do, nor what should be required for a machine sold as "functionally correct". ALSO further to this, iunlock doesn't live in a relatively hot area. I've seen differences as large as 10c between daytime and nighttime in rare cases; this means that his guidelines even with a perfectly-fitting heatsink will not provide the same level of satisfaction for everyone, plus consider too silicon lottery etc.

[Pendragon]

43 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

iunlock has done a LOT of tinkering and testing though.

It's not a completely unreasonable amount. Then again, the average user would prefer not to touch it. The amount of guides and results he wrote on NBR lol. It's pretty crazy.

[fammiloggaretiprego]

Well I've just refunded the laptop with PC Specialist, so they will come pick it up Monday, that gives me the weekend to play with it. I've decided I'll just buy a MUCH cheaper laptop with a gtx 1060 in it which should do the job when I travel, and build a desktop PC calmly and slowly to save money into a great build. 

What do you guys think?

[D2ultima]

11 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

It's not a completely unreasonable amount. Then again, the average user would prefer not to touch it. The amount of guides and results he wrote on NBR lol. It's pretty crazy.

Considering the price of these things ($3000 USD+) it really is an unreasonable amount. Thermal pad checking and replacing with post-sale pads, heatsink checking (and replacing if warped), delidding the CPU with liquid metal? That's well beyond what should be what happens when you buy a laptop. It doesn't happen in desktops and if things fuck up, companies replace shit (like EVGA, they fuck up and they fixed their fuckup). And they pay half price for all their shit.