German Maestro appreciation thread (what?)

[iamMINT]

Okay- now this is a weird choice. But you're going to have to hear me out on this one.

 

So, I've been working most of my life in sound engineering. Pretty hardcore. I worked for some of the biggest places where I live as a live engineer, and I've made soundtracks for some videos and short movies that have had millions of views. While I don't have nearly as much interest in it as I've had- there's still a good bit I've come to known during my time as an engineer. Even though I'm still learning and working in the feild from time to time.

 

If you're like me, and you're looking for very BALANCED headphones for mixing audio, your German Maestro's are what you want unless you want to throw down several thousand on some real expensive stuff. Or, you want to use proper studio sound equipment (mostly in the form of speakers, several of them). Typically hand built for a studio, if you're in some of the better workplaces for recording and sound design.

 

So why does this matter for internet projects? Why can't I just use my ATH m50's? Well, it's the fact that those things have more muddy bass than anything I've ever heard. That means for everyone else, what you think is right is actually wrong. It's almost like screen calibration for video editing, or advanced 256 bit color correction for broadcast. It's the fact that you want everyone to hear the same thing. This, in the audio world, is called fidelity. 

 

And no- I honestly don't get this forum's total need for crazy dac's and amps. They're completely useless, unless you want to convoluted your sound with this nasty amping sound that you're going to get. And for the price you're paying for them- you can really get some much higher quality headphones. And that is in the endgame going to sound much, much better than overexpensive dac's and amps that don't do a single thing but muddy up your sound.

 

Anyway- we're getting off topic here. These German's are professional. If I make something on here, it always transfers from device to device rather well. And it honestly sounds about the same on every separate thing I listen to it on. This is just becasuse these headphones aren't only very very precise and detailed, but they're very flat and neutral on their frequency response. Which is why I bought them, and is why I continue to use them 

 

If anyone is looking into getting some monitors for making content- or even just like a completely flat response, you should pick up a pair. German Maestro is a rather new company- though they already have a good few good headphones out. I use the GMP 8.35D's, but if you want to get something else from their lineup they're probably just as good.

[kokakolia]

You sound like an infomercial. Are you selling headphones by any chance?

[iamMINT]

Just now, kokakolia said:

You sound like an infomercial. Are you selling headphones by any chance?

No- sadly I don't sell these things. I'm just a bit tired of what a lot of people say sometimes. Not really saying anything bad about this forum, or the people on it. I'm saying generally that a lot of people in certain places think that brands like Audio Technica and Sennhiser are superior, even though they're clearly not. Though, this kind of thing only applies to the 5% of people needing that accuracy at that price range. 

[kokakolia]

2 minutes ago, JohnBRoark said:

No- sadly I don't sell these things. I'm just a bit tired of what a lot of people say sometimes. Not really saying anything bad about this forum, or the people on it. I'm saying generally that a lot of people in certain places think that brands like Audio Technica and Sennhiser are superior, even though they're clearly not. Though, this kind of thing only applies to the 5% of people needing that accuracy at that price range. 

Yeah, I could see that. But that's consumer electronics for ya! Several products get all the praise and recommendations because they exceed everyone's expectations. And that doesn't say much because people don't really know what to expect. At the very least it's a win-win situation for everyone involved. 

 

You really sold me on those German Maestro headphones though!  

 

BTW, Philips is a brand to watch. The Philips SHP 9500 is a winner. It's affordable, comfy and sounds good (to my ears). 

[iamMINT]

Just now, kokakolia said:

Yeah, I could see that. But that's consumer electronics for ya! Several products get all the praise and recommendations because they exceed everyone's expectations. And that doesn't say much because people don't really know what to expect. At the very least it's a win-win situation for everyone involved. 

 

You really sold me on those German Maestro headphones though!  

 

BTW, Philips is a brand to watch. The Philips SHP 9500 is a winner. It's affordable, comfy and sounds good (to my ears). 

Yeah- exactly. It really just depends on what you're looking for.

 

As an engineer I have a really really particular ear for these things. That's why I'll go  w a y  out of my way to look up exactly what has the most precise and flat response, and study it for ages before I even think about buying from that brand. For someone like me- with my needs, and what I do- they're perfect. Unbreakable, sound amazing, and have a good fidelity.

 

If you're looking for nice bass, clear treble, and a nice overall sound signature German Maestro might not be your brand. You might, at that point, want to get some AKG's, Grado's, something of the like. Both of which being brands I also appreciate highly. 

 

For the middle ground between aspiring content creator and working professional- these are your headphones to go for. Anything else and I wouldn't endorse it. Simple as that. While I do have a few recommendations with consumer sound- that's not really what I do, and I think you'd just have to find out stuff yourself. Though, I still don't really recomend that you buy DAC's and AMP's unless you've got serious studio gear with a crazy high impedance. At that point a decent DAC would be okay. Though, they honestly don't do much of anything except worsen your sound, and once you get to the point of where you can actually get a decent sounding one- at that price point, you could put that money into buying a better pair of headphones straight up. And to be honest, that's going to sound a whole lot better.

 

Though like I said, it just depends on your tastes and needs as an individual. 

[iShad]

46 minutes ago, JohnBRoark said:

And no- I honestly don't get this forum's total need for crazy dac's and amps. They're completely useless, unless you want to convoluted your sound with this nasty amping sound that you're going to get. And for the price you're paying for them- you can really get some much higher quality headphones. And that is in the endgame going to sound much, much better than overexpensive dac's and amps that don't do a single thing but muddy up your sound.

I have never seen anyone claim you need amp/dac on this sub unless you're using highend gears looking to burn a hole in your wallet to get the last smidgen of sound quality. But yes, amp+dac don't make sense for budget setup when it could be spent on better headphones.

 

20 minutes ago, JohnBRoark said:

Though, I still don't really recomend that you buy DAC's and AMP's unless you've got serious studio gear with a crazy high impedance. At that point a decent DAC would be okay. Though, they honestly don't do much of anything except worsen your sound, and once you get to the point of where you can actually get a decent sounding one- at that price point, you could put that money into buying a better pair of headphones straight up.

Dac/amp can't worsen the sound... it's required to use headphones in the first place, onboard just means it's built onto the motherboard. It does not distort the frequency or at least not meant to with the exception of tubes.

[iamMINT]

12 minutes ago, iShad said:

Dac/amp can't worsen the sound... it's required to use headphones in the first place, onboard just means it's built onto the motherboard. It does not distort the frequency or at least not meant to with the exception of tubes.

Well, that's a physical impossibility. An amp exists to change sound frequency responses, as that's mostly what makes up the general sound of your sound system. A DAC is rather different, in the sense that it converts the signal type. These are typically only useful for very expensive high ohm headphones that need a lot of power. They don't add too much to the frequency response, and if anyone has anything above 40 ohms or so of resistance, I could see someone investing in one.

 

For the record, I never really said that this board believes that amps are required, or praises them for smaller setups. I was just saying in a general scope- as I know of many forums that believe so, that that is the general consensus. I especially don't like tubed headphone amps for that reason- of sound distortion. Though, while solid state stuff isn't as bad, it can still do quite a bit to mess up sound.

 

To be honest, it just depends on your taste. There's no perfect setup for everyone. If you think you need an amp, go for it. Though- I'd just recommend getting a better pair of headphones for that money, even if you're spending thousands. 

[iShad]

7 minutes ago, JohnBRoark said:

Well, that's a physical impossibility. An amp exists to change sound frequency responses, as that's mostly what makes up the general sound of your sound system. A DAC is rather different, in the sense that it converts the signal type. These are typically only useful for very expensive high ohm headphones that need a lot of power. They don't add too much to the frequency response, and if anyone has anything above 40 ohms or so of resistance, I could see someone investing in one.

That's not at all what amp does and impedance is an irrelevant factor for how difficult a headphone is to drive compare to its sensitivity. I don't think you know what you're talking about, or had bad experiences with some really shitty amp/dac.

[kokakolia]

My 2 cents:

 

If you're using a cheap laptop with a poor sound output (I am looking at you Dell Inspiron 15!), a DAC makes a noticeable difference. 

 

I am surprised that a sound engineer would recommend Grados. They sound weird to me, like when you're in a plane that's landing. And they're fatiguing. But what do I know?

 

I actually like having a warmer sound with juicy bass. I think that brands like Philips, Sennnheiser and Sony are on to something. Heck, the latest Beats Solo sounds good to me. I would never buy it/recommend though because it's overpriced and the headband is too tight. At a glance, I would say that these headphones are built for infants.

 

Maybe it has to do with how you lose bass frequencies with ambient noise and how portable headphones are compensating for that. I am saying that because I thought that the Philips M1 sounded amazing outdoors and disappointing indoors. 

 

The idea of having perfectly flat-sounding headphones scares me a little. I don't think that it's a sound I am used to, or that I am looking forward to. It would sound boring to me, I imagine. Like listening to music on your TV (that's what I imagine). But I could definitely see the need for a flat EQ in a professional setting.  

[iamMINT]

On 9/6/2016 at 11:07 PM, iShad said:

That's not at all what amp does and impedance is an irrelevant factor for how difficult a headphone is to drive compare to its sensitivity. I don't think you know what you're talking about, or had bad experiences with some really shitty amp/dac.

Well- it kinda is. Impedance is resistance, and the more resistance you have the harder you have to drive a signal to get that to a decent volume. That's mostly what an amp is going to do. Though, if you have a device that doesn't have a good output level, an amplifier is going to properly process that signal and output it better. Sadly I haven't had to deal too much with consumer amplification, though I have had to deal with large amps made to drive whole pa systems. I don't really know too much about consumer headphone amping though, so take what I say with a grain of salt. 

 

On 9/6/2016 at 11:36 PM, kokakolia said:

My 2 cents:

 

If you're using a cheap laptop with a poor sound output (I am looking at you Dell Inspiron 15!), a DAC makes a noticeable difference. 

 

I am surprised that a sound engineer would recommend Grados. They sound weird to me, like when you're in a plane that's landing. And they're fatiguing. But what do I know?

 

I actually like having a warmer sound with juicy bass. I think that brands like Philips, Sennnheiser and Sony are on to something. Heck, the latest Beats Solo sounds good to me. I would never buy it/recommend though because it's overpriced and the headband is too tight. At a glance, I would say that these headphones are built for infants.

 

Maybe it has to do with how you lose bass frequencies with ambient noise and how portable headphones are compensating for that. I am saying that because I thought that the Philips M1 sounded amazing outdoors and disappointing indoors. 

 

The idea of having perfectly flat-sounding headphones scares me a little. I don't think that it's a sound I am used to, or that I am looking forward to. It would sound boring to me, I imagine. Like listening to music on your TV (that's what I imagine). But I could definitely see the need for a flat EQ in a professional setting.  

Yes- you bring up tons of awesome points. Grados sound weird to you (especially when a airplane or something is taking off) because of something called the sound stage. This has to do with the fact that the back of the headphones are open, or have a bunch of tiny holes in the back. This opens it up and makes it sound a bit more like speakers. This kind of sound is awesome for stuff like big band music and classical music because it all sounds like it's coming from the room you're in. If you're on a plane, outside, or in any kind of noisy environment it kinda ruins this effect.

 

Even little earbuds have these semi open type constructions. You can see that in those apple earbuds that come with iPhones. Those are there so that the sound doesn't sound so closed up and cramped, like it can with budget closed setups. And because of that depressurization, your Phillips M1's sounded awesome outside- where it was so open and the headphones could breathe. Though once you came into a small room it got all cramped up and didn't sound as good.

 

And yeah- that's what I was getting at earlier with the fact that most don't like a flat response. That's the way I am- in true honesty. I prefer a thicker and more warm musical approach, though like I said- one wouldn't want to invest in these for musical taste. German Maestro headphones are designed for precision, as for an audio engineer- proper sounding headphones/monitors is a must. Just as a faster car might help a racer win, a better camera might help a photographer create more stunning photos, and so on. These headphones aren't going to solve all of your audio problems- and they're not going to sound amazing to people that are looking just for the experience. Though, for all those content creators and people in need of something to help, these headphones have helped tremendously in the past.