Where to start on network improvements

[willbeddow]

My network is currently pretty mismatched and low end. I have 30 down 10 up internet from comcast connected to an older netgear router. I have a tb hdd connected the router to use as a sort of NAS but I can only make it accessible as a windows share or via ftp and I get abysmal speeds even though the hdd is usb 3 and connected to a usb 3 port. I'm assuming this is because my router is weak or my bandwidth is bad. I also (don't judge me) have an old laptop with Ubuntu server on it that  hosts my personal website and some other small stuff. I have a smattering of laptops and a gaming desktop ( that I had to put a wifi card in since there was no good way to run cables to it). I'm willing to spend some money on the network and I've been wanting to improve it for awhile but I'm not quite sure where to start and what are the most cost effective ways to do so. I'd ideally like to give my server a better connection and have a dedicated and at least fairly fast NAS. Recommendations?

[RedWulf]

Rip apart one of the laptop for a dedicated NAS? perhaps dived up the take of the server laptop to others. You may need a switch so you aren't using just wifi since cat5e is faster. 

[willbeddow]

6 hours ago, RedWulf said:

Rip apart one of the laptop for a dedicated NAS? perhaps dived up the take of the server laptop to others. You may need a switch so you aren't using just wifi since cat5e is faster. 

I'd rather get new hardware, the laptops that aren't very old and worthless I use for work. 

[RedWulf]

Just now, willbeddow said:

I'd rather get new hardware, the laptops that aren't very old and worthless I use for work. 

Your NAS is just home use? $300-500 could make a custom NAS that easily suites the bill

The server, if it's just a simple site with not much traffic or giant sql base then the same cost could cover it. 

If you're comfortable with linux and configuring then I would think a $700 could easily fit both into 1 PC and suite your needs without recycling. 

xeon cpu(i7/i5 if you neeed graphics) or amd opteron, sever mobo, hdd.

[brwainer]

recommended upgrades in order of most impact:
-connect as many computers as possible via ethernet, and/or look into higher end powerline units (600Mbps or 1200Mbps AV2 units - and you also have to be aware of which outlets in the house are on which phase. Honestly powerline is more difficult than it seems like it should be.) If you end up needing more than 4 LAN ports, you could get any cheap gigabit switch, but I highly recommend getting a "smart" switch which at the very least will let you see what's going on, and will have much better build quality than a $10 dumb switch. but dumb switches also work almost always.

-replace your router with something more modern - my budget recommendations are the TPlink Archer C7 and Archer C9. $100, or slightly less if there is a sale, is the sweet spot for price to performance for routers. There are other good picks at this price point, but these two get consistently good reviews. If you really want to tinker and learn networking, the Mikrotik hAP AC is what I'm currently using - but this is not a device for people who do not want to understand networking.

-invest in a NAS from a company like Synology that will give you some drive redundancy (RAID 1, 10, 5, 6, etc) as well as allow you to set up a web server and other services in jails / docker containers / VMs. The Synology DSM is the most feature rich NAS OS I've seen. If you want a good review go search for Barnacules' video about his Synology NAS online.

-ALTERNATIVELY, build your own server to use as a combined NAS/web server/etc.

 

Completely separate from this is your internet connection from your ISP. Upgrade that whenever you want. You probably want to upgrade the router before or shortly after upgrading your internet, but it isn't required. Related to your internet connection is your modem. If you are currently renting a modem from your provider, you can save money in the long run (usually after about 10 months) by buying your own modem. Your ISP can (actually is required to) give you a list of compatible modems if you ask (disclaimer this is only true for Cable and DSL ISPs in the US, like Comcast).

 

15 hours ago, willbeddow said:

I get abysmal speeds even though the hdd is usb 3 and connected to a usb 3 port. I'm assuming this is because my router is weak or my bandwidth is bad.

If you are talking about speeds from within the network, it's probably the router's CPU being overloaded. A better router will resolve this. If you are talking about speeds when you are not on your network, that is your upload speed on your internet connection.

[skywake]

A different take on the above suggestions (in order of impact):

 

1. Try to connect as many things as with Cat5e/6. If your router only has 100Mbps ports get a cheap Gigabit switch, doesn't have to be a smart switch unless you're doing Link Aggregation or similar. They also have the added benefit of being super cheap to the point where you can probably buy one with more ports than you need now. If you're anything like me you'll inevitably use them all.

 

2. Access points, and more of them rather than higher spec ones. Don't buy an all-in-one router to use its WiFi because unless you go for the super high end they're junk. And the super high end ones are a waste of money. If you can try and buy some enterprise grade access points. Ubiquiti are good because they offer a low price point. The fact that they're powered by PoE is also an advantage because you can place them high up on the wall. Another option is something like eero's new AP. They create a mesh network but can also be used as stand alone access points if you want.

 

3. If after buying better wireless and going as far as you can with Ethernet there are still dead zones? That's when you look at powerline. Powerline is a good solution but it's a solution of last-resort. Effectively it's good at having better range than WiFi but in exchange for that you lose some speed. They're also a good way to add a link back to your router for adding an access point in a better location. Again, only if Ethernet is not an option.

 

4. Network storage. For the lowest cost option I'd just grab a consumer NAS and throw a couple of drives into it. Yes you could build your own and that would give you more features. However if all you want to do is have a place to store your media and play it back on your TV/tablet/phone? The most basic two-bay synology/qnap/netgear will do the job. 

 

5. If your actual router itself is falling apart? Get the cheapest one you can find. It doesn't even have to have WiFi because you won't be using that anyway. It'll probably last as long as some of the higher end ones and with a 30Mbps connection it won't be a bottleneck. If you really need reliability then go for some of the more enterprise grade routers. But be aware that they're usually not very user friendly.

[brwainer]

6 hours ago, skywake said:

Access points, and more of them rather than higher spec ones. Don't buy an all-in-one router to use its WiFi because unless you go for the super high end they're junk.

This is entirely dependent on the size and build style of the house, and where the modem and main router are located. If it's in a central location in a moderate house (2 story, 1500-2500 sq ft) made of primarily wood and gypsum board (drywall) then a single mid-range router like the ones I recommended is a fine solution. Unless you are able to run ethernet to the extra APs, there isn't a point in having them. OP said there was "no good way" to run ethernet to the gaming computer, I am presuming that will be the same for APs.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

And the super high end ones are a waste of money.

mostly agreed. the benefit to the high end ones, just like high end enterprise APs, is being able to support more devices - like more than 20.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

If you can try and buy some enterprise grade access points.

Just saying this without more information is not good advice. Enterprise access points, moreso than consumer routers, are tuned for specific use cases. Oftentimes they are actually tuned for lots of devices (30+) relatively close (20-30ft) to the AP, such as in a classroom or a floor of cubicles. Some others are tuned for long range connectivity, especially with improved reception characteristics for picking up weak smartphone signals. I imagine it is the latter that you mean by "enterprise grade access points", but without an actual understanding of the different types available, just saying that is not good advice.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

Ubiquiti are good because they offer a low price point. The fact that they're powered by PoE is also an advantage because you can place them high up on the wall.

Agreed.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

Another option is something like eero's new AP. They create a mesh network but can also be used as stand alone access points if you want.

Have you actually tried these yourself? I've read many reviews that were overall positive, but none of them actually had data on how fast the network was. Even with the best they can do, I don't think the Eero APs can offer fast LAN speeds since you are most likely connected to an AP that is only wirelessly connected to the other AP which has the NAS attached to it. The Eeros appear to be geared towards always have minimum connectivity, which is a good thing for most people, but is not what someone trying to seriously use a NAS should be interested in. But I haven't used them myself either.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

If your router only has 100Mbps ports get a cheap Gigabit switch, doesn't have to be a smart switch unless you're doing Link Aggregation or similar. They also have the added benefit of being super cheap to the point where you can probably buy one with more ports than you need now.

While I agree on the price perspective, my reason for recommending smart switches isn't because of their features necessarily, it's because you get a better build quality and the ability to do some troubleshooting of things like possible loops.

 

6 hours ago, skywake said:

If your actual router itself is falling apart? Get the cheapest one you can find.

he didn't say how old his router was, but I'm assuming it's decently old, at least 3 years. Consumer routers are rarely built with good cooling and cook themselves. A new router can solve a surprising number of odd things.

[skywake]

9 hours ago, brwainer said:

1. This is entirely dependent on the size and build style of the house, and where the modem and main router are located. If it's in a central location in a moderate house (2 story, 1500-2500 sq ft) made of primarily wood and gypsum board (drywall) then a single mid-range router like the ones I recommended is a fine solution. Unless you are able to run ethernet to the extra APs, there isn't a point in having them. OP said there was "no good way" to run ethernet to the gaming computer, I am presuming that will be the same for APs.

 

2. Just saying this without more information is not good advice. Enterprise access points, moreso than consumer routers, are tuned for specific use cases. Oftentimes they are actually tuned for lots of devices (30+) relatively close (20-30ft) to the AP, such as in a classroom or a floor of cubicles. Some others are tuned for long range connectivity, especially with improved reception characteristics for picking up weak smartphone signals. I imagine it is the latter that you mean by "enterprise grade access points", but without an actual understanding of the different types available, just saying that is not good advice.

 

3. Have you actually tried these yourself? I've read many reviews that were overall positive, but none of them actually had data on how fast the network was. Even with the best they can do, I don't think the Eero APs can offer fast LAN speeds since you are most likely connected to an AP that is only wirelessly connected to the other AP which has the NAS attached to it. The Eeros appear to be geared towards always have minimum connectivity, which is a good thing for most people, but is not what someone trying to seriously use a NAS should be interested in. But I haven't used them myself either.

 

4. he didn't say how old his router was, but I'm assuming it's decently old, at least 3 years. Consumer routers are rarely built with good cooling and cook themselves. A new router can solve a surprising number of odd things.

On these points of disagreement because they're the main ones.

 

1. I speak mostly from personal experience which I would agree does skew my take on things. Where I live the houses are a similar size but they're all double brick, single story. Because of that your internet connection (fibre or DSL) is pretty much always on an external wall at one end of the house. Your example is basically the ideal, what I'm used to is the opposite end of the scale. I expect most people are somewhere in the middle.

 

I'd also add that even if you can't run Ethernet a second AP connected via powerline will do a LOT better than trying to run off an AP that's out of range. If you must go for a consumer grade solution there are WiFi AP/Powerline kits that are fairly cheap. I set one up for my brother because he couldn't connect to WiFi near his pool, Powerline/WiFi solved that. There's also the fact that with multiple access points you spread the load across your network. That means if someone is moving a file to a NAS on one side of the house it doesn't cause a Netflix stream on the other side to stutter.

 

2. I've had far too much trouble with consumer grade WiFi to recommend it anymore. I'd also argue against going for ones optimised for long range if you are intending on using more than one. I have a Ubiquiti AC Lite which is probably the cheapest AC capable "enterprise" solution on the market. It gives me a good signal from the front of the house to about 5m from the back wall on 2.4Ghz and 15m for 5Ghz. My other AP (DLink) covers the rest and the back patio. There's basically no overlap on 5Ghz but there's quite a bit on 2.4Ghz. So if you have two? Range shouldn't be an issue in most houses.

 

3. Yes the speed drops if you run them in the way they recommend. Of course it does. I'm reading a review of it now where the speed dropped to ~100Mbps with the connection running through three of their devices. However you can also hardwire the other units down the track if you need to or connect them via powerline. Their performance in AP mode is pretty reasonable, they push about 300-400Mbps on 5Ghz. That's about as good as it gets for an access point.

 

4. I didn't say the router shouldn't be replaced. I said that they shouldn't spend a heap of money getting the best one available. If the router is dead they should go for the cheapest decent brand one they can find because odds are they don't need a high spec router. If it's not dead they should keep using what they have until it does die. Either way it's probably a better idea to spend money on a wireless solution with multiple APs than a expensive router with multiple bands that will all be too far away from most devices to be of any use. If it's going to die eventually anyway why spend extra for no advantage?

[willbeddow]

Thanks guys, this is really helpful information. I'm checking out the synology NAS's now. My house is fairly small and we got good WiFi coverage with the router so I don't think I need multiple APs. Thanks again