Help speccing out a console replacement

[CtrlAltELITE]

Hey folks

 

So I have finally persuaded a close friend to make the jump from his PS4 to a gaming PC (He was initially looking at an Xbox One). He's been looking at some prebuilts but to be honest in his price range all the stuff that he has been linking me has been crap (discrete GPU i3s or entry level APUs etc). I have offered to help him build a system and we have agreed it would most likely be the best idea.

 

The issue im having is that he is very reluctant to spend more than £400 and we get absolutely ass raped in pricing in the UK in comparison to the US and other markets, so most "console killer" builds online for <US$400 end up coming up close to £500 here (US$750ish). He will also be using it hooked up to his TV next to his bed as he has no room in his apartment for a desk really so an ITX build would be ideal. With these criteria my general recomendation of "i3 & 960" for a cheap build goes over somewhat in his pricerange. So obviously compromises need to be made however I am pretty stumped as to what ones to make so I am seeking opinions on here.

 

The build is here: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/8GqVrH I am wondering what compromises would sacrifice the least performance:

CPU: i3 is my primary choice as it is enough to play pretty much every CPU intensive game on the market at ~60fps, however it is the obvious point to downgrade. Which would be best? An AMD quad core (Athlon I believe) or Intel Pentium anniversary, he is very reluctant to overclock so both of these chips would really suck, i cant seem to see an alternative.

GPU: EDIT: AMD 380. Point stills stands this isnt the area id like to sacrifice

Motherboard: Seemed like a good board with on board wifi

RAM: Its already as cheap as possible imo

PSU: Ditto the RAM

Case: Placeholder

 

Am I missing something or am I just aiming to high?

 

I was also looking at one of those crossfire APU builds but to be honest I have no idea how they work or what kind of performance people are getting out of them, anyone have experience with these? They seem like they might be the best option for <£400 (a10 7850 + R7 250 GPU)

 

 

[JoePro87]

You're trying to get him a cheap build, that will replace a console, yet you're going with Nvidia? I mean, you said it yourself, you're a fanboy. Why not put your fanboyism aside, and try to help your friend get the absolute best bang for the buck? AMD SPECIALIZES in cost efficient hardware. Will it be AS good? Maybe, maybe not, but it is a LOT cheaper, and it is something he could upgrade in the future, if he so desires. I mean, the i3 is decent for gaming. Honestly, it scores about the same as my FX-8300 (depending on which generation i3), so that would be a recommendation for a starter CPU, but as far as graphics cards go...man...I think you just need to be more open minded, and at least look at AMD's offerings.

[HPWebcamAble]

If he's just playing games on it, a console isn't a bad idea.

 

That build is just about as cheap is it can be right now, unless you are ok with lower performance.

[ronstig]

Please for the sake of my sanity don't go for a 960 instead of a 380. Nvidia is not for people on a budget at all, let alone a tight budget. After all, this is for your friend, not for yourself.

[JoePro87]

1 minute ago, ronstig said:

Please for the sake of my sanity don't go for a 960 instead of a 380. Nvidia is not for people on a budget at all, let alone a tight budget. After all, this is for your friend, not for yourself.

Basically...^^^that^^^

[CtrlAltELITE]

6 minutes ago, ronstig said:

Please for the sake of my sanity don't go for a 960 instead of a 380. Nvidia is not for people on a budget at all, let alone a tight budget. After all, this is for your friend, not for yourself.

There really isnt much in it performance wise with Nvidia ending out on top in some games. I would be perfectly open to using a 380 actually, just chose nvidia as a placeholder since its what I know and personally I much prefer the Geforce experience over the catalyst control centre although I have not used an AMD card in a few years.

 

EDIT: Wow I think people missunderstood, im perfectly open to using AMD hardware, my last rig was a crossfire build lol I just happened to put the 760 in since its a spec I know, the fanboy comment was more of a joke.

[ronstig]

3 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

There really isnt much in it performance wise with Nvidia ending out on top in some games. I would be perfectly open to using a 380 actually, just chose nvidia as a placeholder since its what I know and personally I much prefer the Geforce experience over the catalyst control centre although I have not used an AMD card in a few years.

I'm not going to start an argument here but I'm pretty sure anyone would favour performance over whether the GUI looks nice. Again, this is for your friend to play games, not for you to make-out with the green and black title in Geforce Experience.

[JoePro87]

1 minute ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

There really isnt much in it performance wise with Nvidia ending out on top in some games. I would be perfectly open to using a 380 actually, just chose nvidia as a placeholder since its what I know and personally I much prefer the Geforce experience over the catalyst control centre although I have not used an AMD card in a few years.

They don't have the Catalyst Control Center anymore. It's now Crimson, and once you get used to it, it is not only extremely easy to use, but a HELL of a lot better than CCC ever was (although I do miss being able to OC my CPU as well as my GPU all in one neat, little package). 

 

Look, if you don't have much experience with AMD, find a friend that has a card, and ask to test it out. Look at any number of threads posted by the AMD guys. I've had both Nvidia and AMD, I can honestly say AMD is finally getting the message, and finally pulling their heads out of their collective asses. (Not to say they'll ever dethrone Nvidia, but they stand a chance of success now).

 

Also, from what I've heard lately, Nvidia has really been dropping the ball on their driver support, which AMD ironically enough, has been kicking ass in. Plus, all newer AMD cards have support for Liquid VR, which is simply astounding.

[cleb]

Is a Frankenstein computer an option? I got a tossed out hp prebuilt running a core 2 duo, 2gb ddr2 ram, ect and that took care of cpu,halfish of the ram, case. All I had to do was get a power supply, a gpu, and more ram. I got a gtx 660 for $45 off of craigslist, ordered 4gb ddr2 ram for $15, an evga supply for $50 (=$110), and I plan on upgrading to a core 2 quad if I get a good find. It is by NO means a great option for someone who wants to have an upgrade path or "future proofing" but if he wants to keep it cheap he can go a similar route. Maybe try to find an old i3 or i5 (or system with these processors) and then he can have alittle room for upgrade if he plans to stay 1080p for a while. Ebay/craigslist the gpu, ect. I'm not saying build a trash pc persay, but scrapping ideas can be used to cut some costs for performance if you really wanted to cut the budget in turn for the troubles it could cause. 

[CtrlAltELITE]

Aight for the sake of stopping an irrelevent argument I edited the build to include a 380. Still my point is is there anywhere I can sacrifice to shave ~£60 off the build as my friend is pretty adamant that he wants to spend as close to £400 as possible.

 

Also as to HDwebcams comment, I need someone to play goddamn division with! Dont let me lose this opportunity to actually have a friend who is a PC gamer :D. Also he kinda wants to replace his ancient laptop for college work so it kind of kills 2 birds with 1 stone.

[JoePro87]

1 minute ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

Aight for the sake of stopping an irrelevent argument I edited the build to include a 380. Still my point is is there anywhere I can sacrifice to shave ~£60 off the build as my friend is pretty adamant that he wants to spend as close to £400 as possible.

 

Also as to HDwebcams comment, I need someone to play goddamn division with! Dont let me lose this opportunity to actually have a friend who is a PC gamer :D. Also he kinda wants to replace his ancient laptop for college work so it kind of kills 2 birds with 1 stone.

Okay fine, then go with something less powerful than an i3. Just understand that CPU bound titles will probably suffer a little more. How much is being spent on the mobo? You never did say. I'd try to find basically the cheapest "gaming" itx board you can get. Remember, he can ALAWYS upgrade later. The point is getting a working PC, that's not a potato.

[CtrlAltELITE]

3 minutes ago, cleb said:

Is a Frankenstein computer an option? I got a tossed out hp prebuilt running a core 2 duo, 2gb ddr2 ram, ect and that took care of cpu,halfish of the ram, case. All I had to do was get a power supply, a gpu, and more ram. I got a gtx 660 for $45 off of craigslist, ordered 4gb ddr2 ram for $15, an evga supply for $50 (=$110), and I plan on upgrading to a core 2 quad if I get a good find. It is by NO means a great option for someone who wants to have an upgrade path or "future proofing" but if he wants to keep it cheap he can go a similar route. Maybe try to find an old i3 or i5 (or system with these processors) and then he can have alittle room for upgrade if he plans to stay 1080p for a while. Ebay/craigslist the gpu, ect. I'm not saying build a trash pc persay, but scrapping ideas can be used to cut some costs for performance if you really wanted to cut the budget in turn for the troubles it could cause. 

 

I can and have frankenstein my own stuff, hell my file server is built out of an old lenovo SFF unit I picked up for £80. (3rd gen i5, it was a great deal).

 

Id rather not frankenstein someone elses PC though, especially when they are not exactly literate with PC repair (im going to be helping him build this, it is his first jump into PC gaming).

[cleb]

Just now, CtrlAltELITE said:

 

I can and have frankenstein my own stuff, hell my file server is built out of an old lenovo SFF unit I picked up for £80. (3rd gen i5, it was a great deal).

 

Id rather not frankenstein someone elses PC though, especially when they are not exactly literate with PC repair (im going to be helping him build this, it is his first jump into PC gaming).

Understood. 

[swordsman247]

Just now, CtrlAltELITE said:

 

I can and have frankenstein my own stuff, hell my file server is built out of an old lenovo SFF unit I picked up for £80. (3rd gen i5, it was a great deal).

 

Id rather not frankenstein someone elses PC though, especially when they are not exactly literate with PC repair (im going to be helping him build this, it is his first jump into PC gaming).

Something like this maybe? http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/Nsvvzy it's almost a ps4 but with hybred crossfire you should do okay.

[JFischer00]

5 minutes ago, JoePro87 said:

Okay fine, then go with something less powerful than an i3. Just understand that CPU bound titles will probably suffer a little more. How much is being spent on the mobo? You never did say. I'd try to find basically the cheapest "gaming" itx board you can get. Remember, he can ALAWYS upgrade later. The point is getting a working PC, that's not a potato.

You should use the G3258. It's great even on stock cooler and B85 chipset. I've got mine conservatively OCed to 3.8 GHz and it's been running a modded Minecraft server (Agrarian Skies 2, 130+ mods), client, Skype, and Chrome (not YouTube, causes FPS drops) simultaneously with no lag and frame rates around 100 even with maxed settings (16 chunks render distance though).

[CtrlAltELITE]

2 minutes ago, JoePro87 said:

Okay fine, then go with something less powerful than an i3. Just understand that CPU bound titles will probably suffer a little more. How much is being spent on the mobo? You never did say. I'd try to find basically the cheapest "gaming" itx board you can get. Remember, he can ALAWYS upgrade later. The point is getting a working PC, that's not a potato.

Yeah this is basicly the question I asked in the OP

 

Downgrading an i3, what is an appropriate downgrade.

Pentium Anniversary: Dual core but with good single core performance and light OC on stock cooling

AMD Athlon X4: Quad core but with bad single core performance and light OC on stock cooling

 

I know some games have issues launching on non-hyperthreaded dual cores which makes me really reluctant to go for the pentium, But how badly will AMD CPU thermals suck in an ITX build the moment you try to OC it.

 

I mean the types of games he wants to play doesnt exactly help the choice, what draws him to PC gaming is the indy titles (such as kerbal space program) which normally are heavily influenced by single core, however I know several AAA titles have issues launching on dual core systems and he also wants to play some of these (GTA5, the division).

 

Or for a completely left of field alternative how does a kaveri APU crossfired with a R7 stack up when compared to a conventional CPU+GPU system? I cant seem to find solid numbers for these about where someone is actually running it with an R7.

[JoePro87]

2 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

Yeah this is basicly the question I asked in the OP

 

Downgrading an i3, what is an appropriate downgrade.

Pentium Anniversary: Dual core but with good single core performance and light OC on stock cooling

AMD Athlon X4: Quad core but with bad single core performance and light OC on stock cooling

 

I know some games have issues launching on non-hyperthreaded dual cores which makes me really reluctant to go for the pentium, But how badly will AMD CPU thermals suck in an ITX build the moment you try to OC it.

 

I mean the types of games he wants to play doesnt exactly help the choice, what draws him to PC gaming is the indy titles (such as kerbal space program) which normally are heavily influenced by single core, however I know several AAA titles have issues launching on dual core systems and he also wants to play some of these (GTA5, the division).

 

Or for a completely left of field alternative how does a kaveri APU crossfired with a R7 stack up when compared to a conventional CPU+GPU system? I cant seem to find solid numbers for these about where someone is actually running it with an R7.

I'm sorry, I honestly can't comment on the Kaveri/R7 thing. I've only ever used R9's. As far as the lower end CPUs go? Yeah, I see where your problem is. Although there are SOME games that have trouble running on dual core CPUs, you also need to keep in mind that MOST games depend more on single core performance. It's a bit of a toss up, honestly. I mean, would he rather have better performance, or better compatibility? And honestly, I think that's something only your friend could answer. You have to tell him, you really get what you pay for. Starting out, PC gaming can be tough, especially when you do it on a budget. But, that's not to say it isn't worth it.

 

Even though some would call me an AMD fanboy, given the choices...I daresay I'd go with the Pentium *shudders at the thought*

[swordsman247]

9 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

I mean the types of games he wants to play doesnt exactly help the choice, what draws him to PC gaming is the indy titles (such as kerbal space program) which normally are heavily influenced by single core, however I know several AAA titles have issues launching on dual core systems and he also wants to play some of these (GTA5, the division).

 

Or for a completely left of field alternative how does a kaveri APU crossfired with a R7 stack up when compared to a conventional CPU+GPU system? I cant seem to find solid numbers for these about where someone is actually running it with an R7.

With that budget it will be hard to run modern AAA title as good as the ps4 will...

 

My brother has an older a10 and a 6xxx something in x-fire and he's been happy the last 3 years.

 

p.s. fast ram is supper important with apu's 

 

[handymanshandle]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4400 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor  (£50.69 @ Ebuyer) 
Motherboard: MSI H110M Pro-VD Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  (£45.99 @ Ebuyer) 
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  (£32.33 @ More Computers) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (£37.98 @ Ebuyer) 
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 380 4GB Video Card  (£167.59 @ Amazon UK) 
Case: BitFenix Nova ATX Mid Tower Case  (£24.98 @ Novatech) 
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  (£39.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Total: £399.55
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-20 18:24 GMT+0000

 

Just barely below the £400 budget. If CPU power is important you might be able to fit an Athlon X4 860K or go down to either an i3 4170 or Pentium G3258 (the Pentium you might want to get a Z97 or Z87  mobo so you you can give it a small OC.)

the CX430m is fine but the other CX PSUs are a no no.

 

[handymanshandle]

an APU could be an option, but they videos are a little dated so I'm not sure how they'd play in a game like TC: The Division, not sure if the iGPU in the Godavari APUs is any better or what R7 models it works with but that's another option but like I said if any of the games he wants to play are more CPU bound on performance and like cores that do single core and multi-core well. then an i3 of either Haswell, Devils Canyon or Skylake  (or Athlon X4 860K) will be better than a G3258 or G4400.