Is this a good NAS build?

[Skydiver]

So I intend this to be a NAS used at home to backup our data and occasionally stream media. I will most likely run FreeNAS, so here is what I have planned on purchasing: 

Mobo: Supermicro MBD-X10SLV-Q mini-ITX Server Mainboard  219,00€

CPU: Intel Celeron Dual-Core G1840  37,90€

RAM:  8GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3-1333 ECC 54,74€

PSU:   be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 42,90€

Case: Fractal design node 304 82.90€

Drive: Seagate NAS HDD 4 TB (for now)  140.90€

 

Total: 578€

 

The motherboard was the hardest part as not many are available here :/. So is this a good build or should I just for for a NAS made by sinology?

 

 

[Skydiver]

1 minute ago, CUDA_Cores said:

Question 1: What OS are you going to be running. freeNAS, linux, windows server?

FreeNAS most likely or NAs4Free

[zMeul]

that's a bit pricy, but why not ...

 

I got myself this: AsRock D1800M

[zMeul]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

He shouldn't get it becasue that board does not support ECC memory. OP should get ECC memory for a freeNAS build If they care about their data.

ECC doesn't replace backup

[Skydiver]

3 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

For freenas, that is a good build. Although if you are going to be occasionally streaming you may want to step up to something like a pentium G3258

Will this significantly improve the streaming performance? What may happen if I still go with the lower powered cpu?

[Skydiver]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

If you use a lower power CPU and attempt to stream from the NAS, you will bee massive amounts of frame drops/stuttering. This is because the NAS is stuck doing all the encoding of the video while whatever device the NAS is streaming to just has to display the video. An even better CPU will also allow you to turn on dedpulication and file compression in the freeNAS gui, allowing your backups to take up even less space. Although if you plan to use file compression, you will need to step up to something like a core i3. 

Thx for the quick answer, so this processor you recommended earlier will be able to stream 1080p to one device stutter free right?

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, zMeul said:

ECC doesn't replace backup

For a system that is going to be running 24/7 you want a server rated board that is designed to do this. Desktop motherboards are targeted around 4-8 hours of powered on time per day.

 

While the difference in actual design and parts used my not be all that much server boards are tested for this usage and firmware is written with this in mind. The other issue you can find is with warranty, if a manufacturer suspects you have been using something not intended for purpose and is stated in the terms they can refuse replacement. Try doing a warranty claim for a Samsung EVO and mention that it was in a server, they will deny you outright no matter the fault or life of the product.

 

Also for a system that is going to be running 24/7 you want ECC, as a person who runs my gaming desktop 24/7 and never turns it off I do from time to time have to restart it for no practical reason other than it has become unstable and ECC would prevent this. I've never had to reboot my servers and have some with up times of years, not possible without ECC.

 

Server parts are for servers, desktop parts are for desktops. The price premium is not simply due to brand or label as some think.

[zMeul]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

try doing a warranty claim for a Samsung EVO and mention that it was in a server, they will deny you outright no matter the fault or life of the product

that's utter crap

if the product documentation does not specifically state the number of active use hours, RMA has no claim

 

the last one I saw do this was IBM with their "Death Stars" 

 

ECC doesn't protect your data if the storage device goes tits up

ECC doesn't protect your data from power loss

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

If you use a lower power CPU and attempt to stream from the NAS, you will bee massive amounts of frame drops/stuttering. This is because the NAS is stuck doing all the encoding of the video while whatever device the NAS is streaming to just has to display the video. An even better CPU will also allow you to turn on dedpulication and file compression in the freeNAS gui, allowing your backups to take up even less space. Although if you plan to use file compression, you will need to step up to something like a core i3. 

@Skydiver Just be aware the most RAM intensive task is deduplication but if you are using it for backups or have lots of files that are not compressed (pictures & video are) you can save a large amount of space. The highest I've gotten on non backup storage is around 30% which if you have a lot of storage starts to be significant.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, zMeul said:

that's utter crap

if the product documentation does not specifically state the number of active use hours, RMA has no claim

 

the last one I saw do this was IBM with their "Death Stars" 

Yes it is absolutely true and used to be more explicitly stated on the Samsung website, now it is only in the full warranty document. Check your facts before telling someone they are "full of crap". Especially since I use SSDs in servers and went through the effort of buying the correct model to stay compliant.

 

Quote

This Warranty does not extend to:

(ii) Products that are not used for their intended function (for example, SSD 470 Series used in an enterprise Server Systems, Workstations, and Storage Systems),

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/downloads/warranty/SAMSUNG_SSD_Limited_Warranty_English_Australia.pdf

[Skydiver]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

@Skydiver Just be aware the most RAM intensive task is deduplication but if you are using it for backups or have lots of files that are not compressed (pictures & video are) you can save a large amount of space. The highest I've gotten on non backup storage is around 30% which if you have a lot of storage starts to be significant.

 

16 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

Yes, but it will not be able to handle file compression that freeNAS is capable of doing. For that you would need something like a core i3 (most core i3s support ECC memory.  

 So which i3 would you recommend, and does the CPU I originally picked not support ECC memory?

Oh and furthermore, is this RAM I chose goo enough? (sorry for all those questions, I am pretty illiterate when it comes to NASs)

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes it is absolutely true and used to be more explicitly stated on the Samsung website, now it is only in the full warranty document. Check you facts before telling someone they are 'full of crap". Especially since I use SSDs in servers and went through the effort of buying the correct model to stay complaint.

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/downloads/warranty/SAMSUNG_SSD_Limited_Warranty_English_Australia.pdf

one: I don't buy samsung

two: if the seller/reseller or manufacturer does not warn me or provide documentation, it's absolutely their problem

 

I used to work in tech support and besides the IBM case which I knew, I haven't encountered similar situations

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, Skydiver said:

and does the CPU I originally picked not support ECC memory?

the G1840 has ECC support:: http://ark.intel.com/products/80800/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G1840-2M-Cache-2_80-GHz

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

one: I don't buy samsung

two: if the seller/reseller or manufacturer does not warn me or provide documentation, it's absolutely their problem

 

I used to work in tech support and besides the IBM case which I knew, I haven't encountered similar situations

Check my job title.

 

They do warn you, in the warranty documentation, the very link I provided. When i purchased both my Samsung 840 Pros and my 850 Pros it used to say on the product page warranty does not apply when used in server system. For my personal use I could not justify buying their enterprise SSDs or anyone elses, the cost is too high.

 

Edit: Anyway this is off topic. Ignorance is not justification for dispute of a warranty claim, not my problem when it comes to anything you buy and I don't actually care. 

[Skydiver]

2 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

we'll I already see a roadblock at least relating to the RAM. Yes, that RAM would be a good choice if it was even compatible with the motherboard. The motherboard you chose has SO-DIMM slots instead of the DIMM slots that you require for the RAM that you picked out. If you want to use that RAM, you will need to go with a motherboard that has DIMM slots. 

Thanks for spotting that, this could have been a costly error. So do you recommend changing the mobo or choosing an other set of RAM?

Would this mobo for example work: Supermicro X10SLH-F?

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

They do warn you, in the warranty documentation, the very link I provided

bullcrap

does this warranty documentation was presented to you at purchase or was in the product packaging? no? then they're liable

existence on a website is utter irrelevant

 

Quote

Ignorance is not justification for dispute of a warranty claim, not my problem when it comes to anything you buy and I don't actually care

it's not ignorance, it's the letter of law around here - if the tech specs were not presented to you at purchase, they are liable .. as I said

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

bullcrap

does this warranty documentation was presented to you at purchase or was in the product packaging? no? then they're liable

existence on a website is utter irrelevant

LOL please stop, you don't know anything about warranty claims or the legal process. The onus is on the buyer not the seller to ensure fit for purpose. Stupidity has never been a valid reason for anything.

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

LOL please stop, you don't know anything about warranty claims or the legal process. The onus is on the buyer not the seller to ensure fit for purpose. Stupidity has never been a valid reason for anything.

dunno how "the law" works in NZ, but around here the burden of proof lies on the supplier/manufacturer

around here and EU, it is the law to supply a product with proper and very explicit technical documentation and terms of use on paper, not electronically

[Skydiver]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

Yes, that board would work with the memory. But then you would have to choose a different case. I know there are other cube cases that can accommodate an mATX motherboard out there like this one: http://www.newegg.com/global/uk/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352047&cm_re=cube_case-_-11-352-047-_-Product

 I've just read the specification page of this mobo (http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C220/X10SLH-F.cfm) and they mention:

Quote

 Up to 32GB DDR3 ECC 1600MHz
    UDIMMs in 4 sockets

So do UDIMM and DIMM work together?

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

bullcrap

does this warranty documentation was presented to you at purchase or was in the product packaging? no? then they're liable

existence on a website is utter irrelevant

 

it's not ignorance, it's the letter of law around here - if the tech specs were not presented to you at purchase, they are liable .. as I said

Ever heard of read the fine print? Anything stated in the warranty conditions at purchase you agree to whether you read them or not. The manufacturer only has to ensure the product is fit for intended use, if you buy something not for purpose they are not liable. This is the basics of any consumers guarantee act in any country.

 

Having actually done warranty claims for myself, clients and my work for over 16 years across multiple countries I actually have experience in this area beyond "what I think".

 

Don't bother replying we are just wasting each others' time and destroying the OP's thread for no benefit to him.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Skydiver said:

 I've just read the specification page of this mobo (http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C220/X10SLH-F.cfm) and they mention:

So do UDIMM and DIMM work together?

UDIMM means unregistered ram. There are generally two types of ECC ram on the market now days, UDIMM and RDIMM. RDIMM or registered RAM is required to go above 32GB of ram per CPU.

 

UDIMM is also the same type that is used in your desktop, just not ECC.

[Skydiver]

@CUDA_Cores

 

18 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

I very much doubt it. Even if it did work then the ECC function would be disabled by sticking non-ECC and ECC memory in the same board at the same time. Also, why would you want to do that anyway? the board supports ECC and non-ECC memory but likely not at the same time. Go ahead and get that 8GB kingston stick of ECC memory mentioned in the original post. 

 

Would this revised build work?

 

Mobo: Supermicro X10SLH-F mATX 269,00€

 

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 71,90 €

 

RAM:  8GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3-1333 ECC 54,74€

 

PSU:   be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 42,90€

 

Case: Fractal design node 804 109.90€

 

Drive: Seagate NAS HDD 4 TB (for now)  140.90€

 

 

 

Total: 689.34

 

 (btw thank you so much for your help  )

 

[zMeul]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ever heard of read the fine print?

oh, so you now starting to agree with me

 

and btw, it's pointless to argue the legal perspective from another country / region; so, we're done here

 

ps: TOS, EULA and similar are not above the law

[Skydiver]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

Yep, everything checks out, it should all work together. Good luck with your build!

Thanks a lot

[zMeul]

6 minutes ago, Skydiver said:

@CUDA_Cores

 

Would this revised build work?

 

Mobo: Supermicro X10SLH-F mATX 269,00€

 

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 71,90 €

 

RAM:  8GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3-1333 ECC 54,74€

 

PSU:   be quiet! Pure Power L8 300 42,90€

 

Case: Fractal design node 804 109.90€

 

Drive: Seagate NAS HDD 4 TB (for now)  140.90€

 

 

 

Total: 689.34

 

 (btw thank you so much for your help  )

 

one little problem: SuperMicro doesn't provide ECC RAM compatibility list for DDR3-1333: http://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/memory/display.cfm?mspd=1.333&mtyp=41&id=4CFA4655130C014A5A9FFDAAEFCDAAE1