I'm over Windows 10

[lowlyf]

This is a rant. I can't stand behind Windows anymore. I've lost time, money and had to restore more data because of this OS than ever before. I've performed around 50 home user upgrades and I'm not doing it anymore. I attend a local weekly Linux meetup where we install Linux on user's machines. We help them learn the basics of using a Linux based OS, show them open source software alternatives, and answer any questions we can. Attendance is up over 400% this year. I hate the argument "Win10 is new give it time". Maybe you don't mind bricking your personal computer and calling someone to fix it. I'm not going to put beta rollout garbage on a users PC and end up having to change ungodly amounts of money to spend hours debugging a install, restoring data I shouldn't need to backup in the first place, and in general just spending too much time on an OS upgrade. The #1 question I get is, " Will Windows 10 be intentionally spying on me?". As much of a convoluted question that is, and with how convoluted the EULA is with the free upgrade, there is absolutely no way I can say no. Even if the data collected is anonymous in nature, the data will include private information which can and will be tracked back to the end user. I hope corporate environments move towards alternatives like RedHat, and begins to snuff out Windows' market share in big business. What I really can't stand is Microsoft saying that the software is good, there is no problems. And also saying we're only collecting data clearly outlined in the EULA, when the EULA doesn't outline it at all. It boils down to trust, and whether or not I can hang my hat on a Windows 10 install/setup. But I can't trust it at all, so I'm not going to do it anymore. Windows 10 is garbage.

[nskceaj]

Thanks for your hate and Tears i guess. I didnt have any bad experience with win10 yet. ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO.

[lowlyf]

Thanks for your hate and Tears i guess. I didnt have any bad experience with win10 yet. ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO.

How many upgrades have you completed without problems? I've had some go great, especially from Win7.

[Yongtjunkit]

This is a rant. I can't stand behind Windows anymore. I've lost time, money and had to restore more data because of this OS than ever before. I've performed around 50 home user upgrades and I'm not doing it anymore. I attend a local weekly Linux meetup where we install Linux on user's machines. We help them learn the basics of using a Linux based OS, show them open source software alternatives, and answer any questions we can. Attendance is up over 400% this year. I hate the argument "Win10 is new give it time". Maybe you don't mind bricking your personal computer and calling someone to fix it. I'm not going to put beta rollout garbage on a users PC and end up having to change ungodly amounts of money to spend hours debugging a install, restoring data I shouldn't need to backup in the first place, and in general just spending too much time on an OS upgrade. The #1 question I get is, " Will Windows 10 be intentionally spying on me?". As much of a convoluted question that is, and with how convoluted the EULA is with the free upgrade, there is absolutely no way I can say no. Even if the data collected is anonymous in nature, the data will include private information which can and will be tracked back to the end user. I hope corporate environments move towards alternatives like RedHat, and begins to snuff out Windows' market share in big business. What I really can't stand is Microsoft saying that the software is good, there is no problems. And also saying we're only collecting data clearly outlined in the EULA, when the EULA doesn't outline it at all. It boils down to trust, and whether or not I can hang my hat on a Windows 10 install/setup. But I can't trust it at all, so I'm not going to do it anymore. Windows 10 is garbage.

How about application compatibility and games. Windows 10 still wins it all. I have no issues with Windows 10. Good luck dealing with applications compactibility and games.

[GoodBytes]

I have upgraded my entire company to Windows 10, home computer, parent computers to Windows 10. Only 1 caused issue because I forgot to uninstall the Anti-virus.

 

What makes Windows 10 upgrade fail:

 -> Security software, such as anti-virus can block the upgrade process thinking it is an attack. So it is best to uninstall your security software before upgrading, and re-installing them back once done (this includes Microsoft Security Essentials, which in any case don't need, as it is built-in since Windows 8). This is the general recommendation from Microsoft for Windows Upgrades since... ever?!

 

 -> Drivers. Some drivers are reported to actually follow Microsoft documentation properly and causes issues during the upgrade process. It is best to make sure that all drivers are fully updated before upgrading. For example, Nvidia had an issue.But you get the latest drivers, all is good. Some drivers like HP printers are reported to cause problems as well. Best to uninstall them. HP is quick a killing support of their printer drivers.

 

 -> The system had malware or virus previously on the system, and the system was not re-installed. Many people forget that the goal of an Anti-Virus is prevention. If you are infected, sure your anti-malware or anti-virus will remove it. But it won't fix modified system files. These modified system files can cause a problem in the upgrade process.

 

If you don't know the history of the system, do a clean install and upgrade. Always works. Either way, you'll be doing a backup of the user stuff, which probably never done so in any case.

 

If you think Linux is all that amazing. Recall netbooks. Satisfaction of netbooks, which were all running Linux based OS, mostly Ubuntu, where terrible, and that was comparing to Vista. When Windows 7 came out, everyone switch back to Windows and never looked back. Just something to keep in mind. Not to mention that the user has now 0 support. No support from the OEM despite still under warranty (if that is the case), looses on modern technology like full UEFI support (again, assuming the system is recent enough). Difficult to find support online, with many community very elitist on the Linux sector, that really doesn't like new comers. Mixed with "the battle of distros" (switch to this or that distro, because i have it, and it is the best type arguments), no support or I should say hard to find support from service centers (computer shops).

 

Nothing is helped with Linux community not thinking about the end users. Sure, Ubuntu and some other distro does a truly fantastic job at (and criticized by the some Linux community for modifying things in Linux kernel to make ease of use possible), but the software.

 

Also, the software is lacking. OpenOffice and LibreOffice are a perfect example of this. Compared to Office they are ages in the past. And they still have trouble manipulating Office documents, resulting in issues when sending them to other people, or receiving it.  Kingsoft seems to be doing a  great job, but it is a paying software (80$) or have ads. But it shows that it is possible if the OpenOffice and LibreOffice really wants to.

 

Also, many Linux software have GUI issues, in terms of how things should be placed, organized, and decide what to put in or out, and not try and please everyone and submerge software with options, where many of them are useless. This does not add ease of use.

 

The OS is designed for power users, and will remain so, until the entire community gets together and decide to clean things up, get professional GUI designers and professional graphic artists. Hey, maybe, they finally fix the font rendering issue so that text is readable under xWindows.

 

 

As for Windows 10 collecting data.

Well, Are you fine with Chrome? Android? Windows 7? Windows Vista? Steam? Facebook? and about any other large site you visit? Yes... then nothing has really changed in Windows 10. The Privacy Policy is now written in plain English so that it is fully understandable, and not hidden. This made people panic 'cause now you don't need to hire a team of lawyer to decrypt it all, but nothing has really changed.

 

Telemetry data collecting is nothing new. Ubuntu was doing it even, and has truly helped them with their OS. It is just surprising the amount of people not knowing what telemetry data is. It isn't spying. All I'll say, is that you can't fully turn it off, You can set it to Basic in Windows 10. That is really the "big" change. And Microsoft is not being clear on what "Basic" collects. From previous version of Windows based on developers blogs, it seems to collects system specs and configuration (System specs, number of monitors, what, within Windows own software, is being used or not). That is how Microsoft kills Media Center, removed DVD codec, etc, limiting the number of affected people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8.

 

Then the saved resources, are moved to other things, like improving multiple display support, as Microsoft saw an increase of multiple monitor setup among users. Windows 10 is also optimized for 4K displays, and supports up to 8K display with its DPI scaling to stay ahead in the case 5K or more takes on unexpectedly, and so on.

 

 

[cragger89]

Yup.

 

I recently downgraded back to a legit copy of 8.1 Enterprise because my start button and other interface features stopped working occasionally in Win 10. Same issue has happened on the HTPC which is running 10, so I'll be putting that on to 8.1 Enterprise again soon.

 

Enterprise versions aren't affected (yet) by these damn forced upgrade notifications, hence deciding to go with it and so far, so good. Damn annoyed that I went to use my HTPC when we had family round last night and it needed a reboot, just to access a shortcut in the start menu. There are a lot of positives to W10, but on this rig and the HTPC, I'm staying with 8.1 now.

Edited February 14, 2016 by GoodBytes
Format fix

[evieluvsrainbows]

I haven't had a single issue with Windows 10 yet. Not to mention I absolutely love the OS. Much faster than Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 in my opinion, and I've used all 3. I upgraded from Windows 7 (downgraded from 8.1 to 7 cause I hated 8.1) to 10 when Windows 10 officially came out on July 29th, and I haven't had any issues. No stability issues or BSODs yet, which I'm very happy about. I haven't seen any bugs either. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[lowlyf]

Quote

What makes Windows 10 upgrade fail:

 -> Security software, such as anti-virus can block the upgrade process thinking it is an attack. So it is best to uninstall your security software before upgrading, and re-installing them back once done (this includes Microsoft Security Essentials, which in any case don't need, as it is built-in since Windows 8). This is the general recommendation from Microsoft for Windows Upgrades since... ever?!

 

 -> Drivers. Some drivers are reported to actually follow Microsoft documentation properly and causes issues during the upgrade process. It is best to make sure that all drivers are fully updated before upgrading. For example, Nvidia had an issue.But you get the latest drivers, all is good. Some drivers like HP printers are reported to cause problems as well. Best to uninstall them. HP is quick a killing support of their printer drivers.

 

 -> The system had malware or virus previously on the system, and the system was not re-installed. Many people forget that the goal of an Anti-Virus is prevention. If you are infected, sure your anti-malware or anti-virus will remove it. But it won't fix modified system files. These modified system files can cause a problem in the upgrade process.

 

If you don't know the history of the system, do a clean install and upgrade. Always works. Either way, you'll be doing a backup of the user stuff, which probably never done so in any case.

I'm well aware of what makes Windows 10 installs fail. I still contend that just clicking upgrade it many cases does not work although that is how it is touted by Microsoft. I back up every system I upgrade, and have had to format and clean install many systems. And that does not work every time. Not at all. Even if the compatibility check perfectly.

 

Quote

If you think Linux is all that amazing. Recall netbooks. Satisfaction of netbooks, which were all running Linux based OS, mostly Ubuntu, where terrible, and that was comparing to Vista. When Windows 7 came out, everyone switch back to Windows and never looked back. Just something to keep in mind. Not to mention that the user has now 0 support. No support from the OEM despite still under warranty (if that is the case), looses on modern technology like full UEFI support (again, assuming the system is recent enough). Difficult to find support online, with many community very elitist on the Linux sector, that really doesn't like new comers. Mixed with "the battle of distros" (switch to this or that distro, because i have it, and it is the best type arguments), no support or I should say hard to find support from service centers (computer shops).

 

Nothing is helped with Linux community not thinking about the end users. Sure, Ubuntu and some other distro does a truly fantastic job at (and criticized by the some Linux community for modifying things in Linux kernel to make ease of use possible), but the software.

 

Also, the software is lacking. OpenOffice and LibreOffice are a perfect example of this. Compared to Office they are ages in the past. And they still have trouble manipulating Office documents, resulting in issues when sending them to other people, or receiving it.  Kingsoft seems to be doing a  great job, but it is a paying software (80$) or have ads. But it shows that it is possible if the OpenOffice and LibreOffice really wants to.

 

Also, many Linux software have GUI issues, in terms of how things should be placed, organized, and decide what to put in or out, and not try and please everyone and submerge software with options, where many of them are useless. This does not add ease of use.

 

The OS is designed for power users, and will remain so, until the entire community gets together and decide to clean things up, get professional GUI designers and professional graphic artists. Hey, maybe, they finally fix the font rendering issue so that text is readable under xWindows.

My company runs CentOS exclusively on front end machines. I pay RHEL for support. I also pay for applicable 3rd party training for my admin staff and techs alike. We have zero problems. If the Linux community came together, Linux wouldn't be what it is, free to make it anyway you want to. All of the other issues you speak of aren't really issues at all. We write invoices, service tickets, send emails, and handle any other correspondence just like any other company, and I don't have to pay Microsoft.

 

Quote

As for Windows 10 collecting data.

Well, Are you fine with Chrome? Android? Windows 7? Windows Vista? Steam? Facebook? and about any other large site you visit? Yes... then nothing has really changed in Windows 10. The Privacy Policy is now written in plain English so that it is fully understandable, and not hidden. This made people panic 'cause now you don't need to hire a team of lawyer to decrypt it all, but nothing has really changed.

 

Telemetry data collecting is nothing new. Ubuntu was doing it even, and has truly helped them with their OS. It is just surprising the amount of people not knowing what telemetry data is. It isn't spying. All I'll say, is that you can't fully turn it off, You can set it to Basic in Windows 10. That is really the "big" change. And Microsoft is not being clear on what "Basic" collects. From previous version of Windows based on developers blogs, it seems to collects system specs and configuration (System specs, number of monitors, what, within Windows own software, is being used or not). That is how Microsoft kills Media Center, removed DVD codec, etc, limiting the number of affected people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8.

 

Then the saved resources, are moved to other things, like improving multiple display support, as Microsoft saw an increase of multiple monitor setup among users. Windows 10 is also optimized for 4K displays, and supports up to 8K display with its DPI scaling to stay ahead in the case 5K or more takes on unexpectedly, and so on.

No I'm not okay with any of those sites/services. I have a Facebook and a Twitter, for my business, and don't use any of the other services listed unless it is required. I locally host my own mail server, host my own cloud service, and use end to end encryption and disk encryption everywhere. I mask my IP with proxy services like VPN's. Microsoft is actively using the "Telemetry Data" they are collecting for revenue, not only "improving the user experience". Why does Microsoft need my contacts lists, the contents of my searches, and sound bytes of the music I listen to, etc? To improve my user experience, I don't think so. Telemetry data collecting is not something new, the way people define what telemetry data includes is in fact new. Read the EULA again. I concede that I have a Google Nexus phone, listed under an LLC that I in fact am the owner. I use it everyday and give up to Google everything they can collect, but only as a necessity for work. I preach data privacy everywhere I go.

[GoodBytes]

Quote

Microsoft is actively using the "Telemetry Data" they are collecting for revenue, not only "improving the user experience".

Proof?

I think you are confusing Telemetry data collecting and using features that uses Microsoft services, such as Cortana which uses Bing.

 

Quote

Why does Microsoft need my contacts lists, the contents of my searches, and sound bytes of the music I listen to, etc?

Simple. A modern OS of this area, tend to include feature to boost the user experience. Cortana needs all that information if you use it.

Cortana can identify songs, send messages (SMS/MMS) and e-mails, remind you of things when you get to a specific location if you ask it to do so, and so

on. I won't be surprised if a full phone integration is coming in the future.

 

Quote

To improve my user experience, I don't think so. Telemetry data collecting is not something new, the way people define what telemetry data includes is in fact new. Read the EULA again. I concede that I have a Google Nexus phone, listed under an LLC that I in fact am the owner. I use it everyday and give up to Google everything they can collect, but only as a necessity for work. I preach data privacy everywhere I go.

Yup, to improve it. That is how Microsoft has improved its OS, and continues to, and that is how they mostly follow as feedback for decision making on changes.

 

[lowlyf]

Quote

Proof?

I think you are confusing Telemetry data collecting and using features that uses Microsoft services, such as Cortana which uses Bing.

I think you're confusing using services that Win10 features, with telemetry data collecting. They are all owned by Microsoft. There is no difference. In the EULA for Win10 (including all services featured in Win10) it states very clearly the data will be collected for three things. To provide and improve its services, to send customers personalized promotions, and to display targeted advertising. They don't display targeted advertising for free. We'll see how that changes Aug 1st. I doubt it will at all.

[GoodBytes]

There is a difference. The data is collected differently for different purposes.

Telemetry data is data that has no goal or care to identify you, send to a massive database of other telemetry data, and that is used for Microsoft developers to see how people uses their apps, and how Windows is used, what are the specs of people computers and so on (a great way to avoid a Vista effect, where the OS far exceed what most users computer specs can handle. I am not talking about the other issues of Vista)

 

Data collecting is what Bing collects, and Windows collects from your interests via its ad system on web sites, and Universal Apps that has ads. Those, are the same as Google. They are designed to identify you, but not personally. They don't care about YOU. But they care what age group you fit, what is your interests, etc. So regroup and sale that data as market research data. That is how how Google makes most of this money. This information is extremely valuable, sold for millions of dollars. Why?

 

Say you are a company. You have this great idea. But a great idea can only go so far. You need to tweak it for the right audience, and the product design must be adapted as such. For example, a product for young kids, must be durable, and survive many drops. Also, marketing. If Lenovo start selling its ThinkPad business class system, as is (no funky colors or anything) to young kids under the age of 7... its not going to sell many, I think we can agree on that. "Hey kids! Forget that cool Transformer toy, when you can do your taxes! With TaxMaker 2000! Buy now!".

 

As a company, developing an idea, costs millions of dollars. In the past, surveys were used. Sally, 80% of the time surveys are wrong. Why?

 -> First trying to get people to spend their time for it, is difficult.

 -> Giving a gift for their time, brings people, but most will write crap, just to get the gift asap, and leave.

 -> Poorly worded or understood question from the selected community.

 -> Too long surveys results in people finishing quickly or returning incomplete surveys

 

Many many many times, a product fails because it was poorly marketed and targeted.

 

So, market data is very accurate in comparison, and you, as a company, know how important that data is.

What is spending 5 million dollars for it (for example), for a product that will cost you, say, 30 million in R&D and producing it, if it means increasing your chances that the product will actually sale.

 

[lowlyf]

39 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

There is a difference. The data is collected differently for different purposes.

Telemetry data is data that has no goal or care to identify you, send to a massive database of other telemetry data, and that is used for Microsoft developers to see how people uses their apps, and how Windows is used, what are the specs of people computers and so on (a great way to avoid a Vista effect, where the OS far exceed what most users computer specs can handle. I am not talking about the other issues of Vista)

 

Data collecting is what Bing collects, and Windows collects from your interests via its ad system on web sites, and Universal Apps that has ads. Those, are the same as Google. They are designed to identify you, but not personally. They don't care about YOU. But they care what age group you fit, what is your interests, etc. So regroup and sale that data as market research data. That is how how Google makes most of this money. This information is extremely valuable, sold for millions of dollars. Why?

 

Say you are a company. You have this great idea. But a great idea can only go so far. You need to tweak it for the right audience, and the product design must be adapted as such. For example, a product for young kids, must be durable, and survive many drops. Also, marketing. If Lenovo start selling its ThinkPad business class system, as is (no funky colors or anything) to young kids under the age of 7... its not going to sell many, I think we can agree on that. "Hey kids! Forget that cool Transformer toy, when you can do your taxes! With TaxMaker 2000! Buy now!".

 

As a company, developing an idea, costs millions of dollars. In the past, surveys were used. Sally, 80% of the time surveys are wrong. Why?

 -> First trying to get people to spend their time for it, is difficult.

 -> Giving a gift for their time, brings people, but most will write crap, just to get the gift asap, and leave.

 -> Poorly worded or understood question from the selected community.

 -> Too long surveys results in people finishing quickly or returning incomplete surveys

 

Many many many times, a product fails because it was poorly marketed and targeted.

 

So, market data is very accurate in comparison, and you, as a company, know how important that data is.

What is spending 5 million dollars for it (for example), for a product that will cost you, say, 30 million in R&D and producing it, if it means increasing your chances that the product will actually sale.

 

Selling my personal interests to target ads towards me doesn't take more than an algorithm. Microsoft has given up being an innovative software company, for being an advertising company like Google. If they can't be innovative without riding the coattails of the end user, that's their fault, not mine. I don't want them in my personal data, therefore I'm not going to give it to them. Mass collection of end user data to sell it for marketing purposes is wrong. Thinking that Microsoft will be innovative with the data they collect when they can simply sell the information for higher revenue is ludicrous. There is a reason Windows 10 is free. It's the same reason it is being touted as the last operating system they will produce. All software that is free and NOT open source all has the same motive. And that motive is money. Why should I have to give up my personal data so Microsoft can make a dollar?

[DarkEnergy]

So far the only issues I've had that is non stop are images not opening with a timeout error and my computer turning on at around 3 am for fucking updates. 

 

Oh, and Windows 10's ugly ui with the window buttons.

[shermantanker]

On 2/14/2016 at 8:31 PM, lowlyf said:

How many upgrades have you completed without problems? I've had some go great, especially from Win7.

 I have personally seen 2 or 3 out of 50 or so I have done.