Looking for a new monitor

[TheVoiceofExile]

Hi all, I've seen a number of threads already about it, but none of them really answer my biggest question I have while looking for a new monitor.

 

What is better, response time or refresh rate?

 

For some context I have a 7950 overclocked to 1100mhz (not 100% stable yet, working on it), so you might as well say I have a 7970. Meaning I can push a decent amount of fps. (related to 120hz)

 

I know that if you push more fps than a monitor has in terms of refresh rate that you won't see any improvement because the monitor is only displaying 60 frame per second. But I don't know that much about refresh rate and its potential importance other than it is how fast a monitor's pixel can switch from color A to color B.

 

I currently have an Acer X233h-bid, which is your run of the mill 1080p 5ms 23" monitor, and I am looking for something better than it. It doesn't particularly matter in what fashion it is better, but gaming is my main shin-dig so something that leans in that direction.

 

I've heard a lot of talk (especially from Linus) about IPS panels, and coming from matte finish TNs ever since I started working with computers I don't know how much of an improvement it is. If anyone is willing to vouch for them please let me know. I am worried however about the response time and contrast on those since they both tend to be lower than every other monitor.

 

What I'm looking for in a monitor is pretty much something 23 inches or bigger, minimum of 1080p, and either a better response time or refresh rate compared to my current monitor. Or something with colors and overall display quality better than my current monitor that it makes it feel like an upgrade. Sexy stands and bezels are highly welcomed since I plan on having at least 2 of these. Here are a few I have found so far:

 

My particular favorite:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236307

 

Decent runner up:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236261

 

Same thing without a webcam?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236154

 

That is what I have found so far. I'm working with a max budget of about 200, but if it is really a big enough jump in overall quality/experience then I will go up to 250. 

 

Thanks for any help in advance, and please do educate me with your knowledge on anything relevant to my post. I haven't had much experience with monitors so I don't know much about them and their technicalities.

 

Thanks again,

 

Exile

[Langdon]

Get an IPS panel, the colours look much better. Response time does not matter that much either, plus many companies measure response time differently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236335 This is a good one.

[Emperor_Piehead]

I can't 100% say how much better an IPS since mine is color calibrated and 1440p, but I had a game that always played on my laptop(TN screen) and decided to play it on my desktop and I was shocked how big of a difference it was. Response time does not mean much as most manufactures lie about the timing like a benQ XL2420T advertises 1ms while it has a 11ms response time.

 

For $200 This would be my recommendation- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236292

 

I would watch this monitor as I've seen it go down to $250 before- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260047

[Tic-Tac]

Get an IPS panel, the colours look much better. Response time does not matter that much either, plus many companies measure response time differently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236335 This is a good one.

 

This one looks very good. Do you have one or know someone who is using one? There are almost 0 reviews of this monitor and thats strange... Alternatives are : MX239H and PB238Q (cross-hatching problems)

[Langdon]

This one looks very good. Do you have one or know someone who is using one? There are almost 0 reviews of this monitor and thats strange... Alternatives are : MX239H and PB238Q (cross-hatching problems)

I don't own it. I looked into it and realised there's no DVI port, that's disappointing.

There's also this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005409 for a bit more. From the customer reviews, the only complaint is a flimsy stand. You should Google around for reviews on this monitor, I'm just quickly looking at better monitors.

[GoodBytes]

If you are going to buy a 60Hz monitor, get an IPS. At least you'll enjoy your game with a more immerse feeling with the much better color reproduction. Also you get to enjoy improved sharpness, and wide view angle, allowing you to perfectly see your screen, no mater ho your sit, or where you are (beside behind the monitor)

[TheVoiceofExile]

Get an IPS panel, the colours look much better. Response time does not matter that much either, plus many companies measure response time differently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236335 This is a good one.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I decided to go with this one Langdon suggested due to the deal and covering all the grounds of things I am after. Other than the same response time and refresh rate I feel as though this will be a large upgrade in terms of viewing experience. I'm looking forward mostly to the fact I've heard it can do 72-75hz without overclocking via Titans, and that is my personal favorite range for refresh rate. Not including the fact there is 10% off and 20 dollars in mail-in-rebates for a heck of a deal. I'll be getting 2 of these and I'll let everyone know how my first experience with IPS panels go. Might even right a story about it for the forums. Thanks again gais

[Langdon]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I decided to go with this one Langdon suggested due to the deal and covering all the grounds of things I am after. Other than the same response time and refresh rate I feel as though this will be a large upgrade in terms of viewing experience. I'm looking forward mostly to the fact I've heard it can do 72-75hz without overclocking via Titans, and that is my personal favorite range for refresh rate. Not including the fact there is 10% off and 20 dollars in mail-in-rebates for a heck of a deal. I'll be getting 2 of these and I'll let everyone know how my first experience with IPS panels go. Might even right a story about it for the forums. Thanks again gais

If you haven't bought it already, this one is also good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009483&Tpk=acer%20236hlbid and includes DVI ports. 

I hope you're happy with your purchase.

[GoodBytes]

Hmm... don't overclock your display. All you do is reuine the visuals. The reason why monitors can actually go at 75Hz, is not to actually display 75Hz. It's to support a higher refresh rate for a stronger signal via VGA for a clearer image.

All high end consumer grade monitor are solid on 60Hz, as they use a analogue to digital converter that is much better, where you don't see them going any higher than 60Hz.

 

So what are the results?\

2 possibilities depending on the monitor

 -> Frame skip. Where the panel display 60Hz

 -> Actually overclock the panel, so you see a reduced sharpness (more blur), as the IPS panel  can't go over 60Hz.

The LCD liquid isn't fast enough. Now for 75Hz isn't not really visible, as it's only 15fps more. But people that push it to 120Hz, yea hey think they see more frames, but it's just blur. If you have a true 120Hz TN panel monitor, you notice right away.

 

Also, you don't need a Titan for this.. any graphic card, including a GeForce 4 MX, or an Nvidia Riva TNT1, can overclock your display. The difference is that Nvidia made it easier with API codes readily available for manufacture to use and make their own utilities. You can make your own if you want. You can also make your own MSI AfterBurner, if you want. It's all here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi . In other words, it's just Nvidia being lazy to do it's own program

[TheVoiceofExile]

Hmm... don't overclock your display. All you do is reuine the visuals. The reason why monitors can actually go at 75Hz, is not to actually display 75Hz. It's to support a higher refresh rate for a stronger signal via VGA for a clearer image.

All high end consumer grade monitor are solid on 60Hz, as they use a analogue to digital converter that is much better, where you don't see them going any higher than 60Hz.

So what are the results?\

2 possibilities depending on the monitor

-> Frame skip. Where the panel display 60Hz

-> Actually overclock the panel, so you see a reduced sharpness (more blur), as the IPS panel can't go over 60Hz.

The LCD liquid isn't fast enough. Now for 75Hz isn't not really visible, as it's only 15fps more. But people that push it to 120Hz, yea hey think they see more frames, but it's just blur. If you have a true 120Hz TN panel monitor, you notice right away.

Also, you don't need a Titan for this.. any graphic card, including a GeForce 4 MX, or an Nvidia Riva TNT1, can overclock your display. The difference is that Nvidia made it easier with API codes readily available for manufacture to use and make their own utilities. You can make your own if you want. You can also make your own MSI AfterBurner, if you want. It's all here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvapi . In other words, it's just Nvidia being lazy to do it's own program

So using HDMI/dvi and putting the monitor at 72hz won't actually bring any improvements? Or will the loss in sharpness not be worth those additional 12fps? Like you were saying I did see significant improvement by bumping up to 75hz on my VGA monitor at work, it doesn't hurt to look at it as much anymore lol.

[GoodBytes]

LCD screens doesn't not flicker... well SUPPOSE to.

Some monitor, mostly the budget market, uses PWM for the backlight to control the brightness.

PWM (Pulse Width Modulator), is a inexpensive way of controlling the back light illumination, by turning it ON and OFF repeatedly at a certain rate.

Brighter the screen, the less flickering you have. The lower the brightness, the more you have it. That is why it hurts. Some people aren't sensitive, and have no issues.

 

Another factor is the cannon speed of a CFL backlight (as you know it fires repeadtly to output a continuous light. The CFL have a phosphor layer to retain the light, hence why the tubes are white. Many monitors the frequencies is adjusted to the monitor refresh rate, as it's cheap to do, as it simplifies components and circuit.

That in mind, you have different grades of CFLs. The crappy ones are usually yellow or too blue white, with crappy, and thin layer of phosphor, making the flickering visible, which is the your head or eyes to hurt (remember that your eyes sees the flickering, but your brain is what smoothest out).

The good CFLs have a much truer white, and there is no flickering. Also warm up time is near instant, compared to a gradual increase, which is annoying.

 

So that is why you see what you are experiencing.

[TechSage]

Get an IPS panel, the colours look much better. Response time does not matter that much either, plus many companies measure response time differently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236335 This is a good one.

No DVI, VGA delivers terrible video

[Langdon]

No DVI, VGA delivers terrible video

There's an HDMI port, but yes I noted that later and suggested another monitor.

[Tic-Tac]

Maybe Asus VS247H-P would be the best option? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236174

Golden middle between IPS and 120Hz/144Hz monitor types

[TheVoiceofExile]

Okay so I have the monitor in and hooked up. And at the moment you can call me very confused.

 

I can't really tell if things are better or worse than the other monitor. Like, I'm seeing things I used to not see, but it is so different I don't know if I like it. Currently things are very awkward because everything I've know for the last forever is completely different from what it was. 

Is it just one of those things you get used to over time and then cry when you don't have it anymore?

[GoodBytes]

Common problem. You are used to see everything wrong all your life, pretty much. So when it's correct, you have what you are experiencing. Some people find their better monitor to be washed out, as they are used to over-saturated colors, others it's the reverse with the same monitor. Once you get used to it, then the monitors that you thought was correct, and liked, will appear completely wrong a mile away.

 

Oh and it doesn't help, if you adjusted pictures that you took with your camera, to your old monitor, instead of leaving them as is.