If the government is hiding the existence of aliens...

[LOLZpersonok]

I just thought of something. If the US government or the governments of other countries are hiding the existence of aliens, what do they have to gain from it? What benefit does it serve? I don't understand why government bodies would want to cover up the existence of extraterrestrials so badly, if they are. 

First things first: I don't believe the government is covering up the existence of aliens, I have yet to see some good, trustworthy and verifiable evidence for this. I don't see anything they have to gain from hiding their existence from the public (unless the government would be reverse engineering alien tech so they could have an advantage in war situations, but I have yet to see trustworthy and verifiable evidence), but I do see some benefits to having contact with an alien species. Like business deals - humans and aliens could trade goods between planets, and this would be good for both economies. Not only that, but a more advanced civilization could answer many of our questions, such as questions related to faster-than-light travel, provide us with better ways to explore our galaxy, bring new and improved technology to make our lives better, and they could also provide significant benefit to healthcare. They could aid in our search for curing currently incurable diseases and afflictions and they could also dramatically increase the life span of humans and reduce the suffering we sometimes experience. An advanced civilization could also help us solve our problems with poverty and social inequality. I see some significant possible benefits to human-alien relations - the Mass Effect series goes through this in detail. So why would the government want to cover it up? I think the public could handle the knowledge, so it would have to be something else. 

Area 51 is almost synonymous with alien experimentation, but as far as I know there isn't really any verifiable proof of any alien experiments going on there. All we have to go on is the word of mouth, and as we know, that is a very unreliable source of information in many cases. Area 51 is so well known as a secret military base because everyone speculates about it and it sparks human curiosity. As I saw in a Lemmino video on YouTube, where there is an information vacuum, theories fill the void. 

So, if the government(s) really are hiding the existence of aliens, what would they have to gain from it? What purpose would hiding them serve? How does it benefit anyone/everyone, and why is it said that the government is so ruthless in covering it up that they would go as far as murdering innocent individuals to keep the secret? Even if the government were so secretive about it, surely some valid, verifiable and trustworthy evidence would have eventually gotten out that something more is going on. As stated earlier, I have no reason to believe that the government is covering up the existence of extraterrestrials (for example, the SETI program would essentially be a massive waste of money if the government were hiding aliens) because I have yet to see some real, verifiable and trustworthy evidence. Everything I've seen so far has some kind of issue with it. I don't believe things on word of mouth alone, and I don't see conspiracy theorists as a valid source of information because many of them have been discredited for various reasons. 

[Admiral Naismith]

The only 'good' reasons are;

The government f*cked up, shot an alien down, and wants to hide the embarrassment.

Aliens are trying to use CIA- like tactics on Earth governments (i.e. trying to manipulate other governments quietly), but some sh*t when down.

The governments only sponsor a 'shield-like' agency that protects earth.

You can't handle the truth type thing.

 

None of these I feel are decent answers. IF Aliens made it to earth at some point, it was some lost motherf*cker who saw a habitable planet to crashland on.

Area 51 is where they (used) to develop and test the ultra secret and hightech weapons. The whole point of Area 51 was to get around the public eye and laws so they could do some rather unethical work, and also keep it hidden from the Russians.

 

If our current understanding of the universe is close to being correct, then it's next to 100% guaranteed that there are other intelligent life forms in this universe. The problem is *if* there are any practical ways to travel interstellar distances. It's very possible there is not, I'm however inclined that 'warp tech' of some kind is possible. 

Another theory is that it's simply easier to build up a solar system than travel. This theory is why there was a lot of hype around the supposed 'ringed' star. It would be one of these cultures developing their system.

A darker theory is that there is a destructive/warlike species (i.e. wraith like), and everyone has gone basically radio silent because of it.

Another theory is a Star-Trek like system exists. If, say the U.S., developed a warp-drive system we could already have contact. I really like thinking about this theory.

There are countless theories out there. It's fun to think about.

[Misanthrope]

Given at the frankly pathetic track record of the US government hiding things the chances of they successfully keeping the secret for this many decades is a statistical impossibility. 

[Albatross]

X-Files has a pretty good reason as to why they would do something like that. Power, money, and control. It always comes down to those three things.

[LOLZpersonok]

4 hours ago, Admiral Naismith said:

The only 'good' reasons are;

The government f*cked up, shot an alien down, and wants to hide the embarrassment.

Aliens are trying to use CIA- like tactics on Earth governments (i.e. trying to manipulate other governments quietly), but some sh*t when down.

The governments only sponsor a 'shield-like' agency that protects earth.

You can't handle the truth type thing.

None of these I feel are decent answers. IF Aliens made it to earth at some point, it was some lost motherf*cker who saw a habitable planet to crashland on.

Area 51 is where they (used) to develop and test the ultra secret and hightech weapons. The whole point of Area 51 was to get around the public eye and laws so they could do some rather unethical work, and also keep it hidden from the Russians.

If our current understanding of the universe is close to being correct, then it's next to 100% guaranteed that there are other intelligent life forms in this universe. The problem is *if* there are any practical ways to travel interstellar distances. It's very possible there is not, I'm however inclined that 'warp tech' of some kind is possible. 

Another theory is that it's simply easier to build up a solar system than travel. This theory is why there was a lot of hype around the supposed 'ringed' star. It would be one of these cultures developing their system.

A darker theory is that there is a destructive/warlike species (i.e. wraith like), and everyone has gone basically radio silent because of it.

Another theory is a Star-Trek like system exists. If, say the U.S., developed a warp-drive system we could already have contact. I really like thinking about this theory.

There are countless theories out there. It's fun to think about.

I just had a random thought: With the amount of "crashed UFO" reports out there (of which I am rather skeptical about) it got me thinking: If these aliens which were visiting Earth were capable of interstellar travel (which they would have to be) then why do they crash so often? Us humans rarely crash our airplanes so you'd think a more technologically advanced species would be less likely to crash. It's just a thought, and these crash reports may be legitimate but I have yet to find reason to believe they really are.

 

There are also hypotheses out there stating that aliens may have already discovered Earth and are just studying us from a distance, intentionally hiding and not making contact so they don't disturb our natural development.

 

As for the warp drive theory (AKA Alcubierre Drive) I know that it's likely not possible, but I'm optimistic that it is. Seeing that when compared to what could be, humans are still quite primitive; however, the more our technology advances, the faster it will advance. I'm confident that even if something like the Alcubierre Drive is impossible that we will find another way to break the sound barrier.

 

If aliens find us before we find them and they do make contact, I'm hopeful that they will share their tech with us and enable us to explore the galaxy like them. I think that a species significantly more developed than humans would be less warlike. We can't know for sure until it happens, but that's an idea. I like to think of the benefits of human-alien contact, and I just don't understand why it should be hidden from us (the public) if it were to ever happen.

 

Area 51 came around during the Cold War, so of course they'd need a secret place to develop experimental technology. Espionage was a big deal back then, and the base would have to be kept rigorously secret to prevent its secrets from falling into the hands of the Soviet Union. Even in today's world where we aren't really in a state of Cold War (though it could be argued that we are) things there would still need to be kept secret because espionage is still a thing and still happens, though I think more frequently with the USA vs. Cuba, where before it was the USA vs. Soviet Union. For example, there was a court case which dealt with spies from Cuba, so espionage is still going on and the need for secrecy in certain places still exists, but I don't think it's for the reason of hiding aliens. 

[stconquest]

Let's keep this simple (ignore this if it kills your beliefs):

 

1.  Space is huge.

 

2.  Anything here on earth can be found anywhere else in abundance.

 

3.  We offer no technological advancement to any technologically advanced life.  We are also still culturally barbaric (a.k.a., we kill each other) to our cores as a global society.

 

There is no reason to visit "Ape World".  Some see our being alone in the universe as a good thing, a place to grow from.  Some are too scared at the realization that they do anything to dismiss the possibility.

 

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Just now, stconquest said:

Let's keep this simple (ignore this if it kills your beliefs):

 

1.  Space is huge.

 

2.  Anything here on earth can be found anywhere else in abundance.

 

3.  We offer no technological advancement to any technologically advanced life.  We are also still culturally barbaric to our cores as a global society.

 

There is no reason to visit "Ape World".

 

 

You're probably right. As mentioned in my previous post to this thread, I mention that maybe aliens have discovered us and are intentionally hiding from us so they can study us and allow for our natural development. If they have discovered Earth but simply don't give a damn about us, they're probably just leaving us be. I was watching a video from Lemmino on YouTube on aliens, and one of the ideas presented was that we're too primitive for more advanced civilizations to consider contacting. There was an analogy used in that video, I can't remember whose it was: "You don't stop and wonder what a worm is thinking about or try to communicate with it. You walk past it or step on it.". We could be the worm, and the aliens could be the humans. That is, assuming aliens have already discovered us.

[Ddave]

Well, what if we're the most technologically advanced species in the universe ?

I mean, it can be as possible as us being the least advanced.

 

Ooooooor, what if we really are alone ? 

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, LOLZpersonok said:

You're probably right. As mentioned in my previous post to this thread, I mention that maybe aliens have discovered us and are intentionally hiding from us so they can study us and allow for our natural development. If they have discovered Earth but simply don't give a damn about us, they're probably just leaving us be. I was watching a video from Lemmino on YouTube on aliens, and one of the ideas presented was that we're too primitive for more advanced civilizations to consider contacting. There was an analogy used in that video, I can't remember whose it was: "You don't stop and wonder what a worm is thinking about or try to communicate with it. You walk past it or step on it.". We could be the worm, and the aliens could be the humans. That is, assuming aliens have already discovered us.

 

Neil Degrasse Tyson has said that before.  He said during this tangent he has used a bunch of times.  I could not find the exact quote in the video:

 

 

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Just now, Ddave said:

Well, what if we're the most technologically advanced species in the universe ?

I mean, it can be as possible as us being the least advanced.

 

Ooooooor, what if we really are alone ? 

I honestly fancy a sort of thing like what is in Mass Effect, a huge galactic community comprising of many different alien species and worlds. Of course we could do without the massive civilization ending robots, but I still think it would be cool if it were reality. But not in my life time, probably.

[Ddave]

1 minute ago, LOLZpersonok said:

But not in my life time, probably.

 

No, probably not in these times. We can't even have a nice community comprising of a single species.

[LOLZpersonok]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

 

Neil Degrasse Tyson has said that before.  He said during this tangent he has used a bunch of times.  I could not find the exact quote in the video:

 

 

 

There it is, thanks. Couldn't remember the person Lemmino mentioned in the video and I was too lazy to go looking for it.

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, LOLZpersonok said:

I honestly fancy a sort of thing like what is in Mass Effect, a huge galactic community comprising of many different alien species and worlds. Of course we could do without the massive civilization ending robots, but I still think it would be cool if it were reality. But not in my life time, probably.

 

Honestly if I had to guess:  I don't think any life out there knows that there is life here.

[LOLZpersonok]

Just now, Ddave said:

 

No, probably not in these times. We can't even have a nice community comprising of a single species.

It's honestly disappointing. Like that one image floating around the Internet that says "born too late to explore the world, born too early to explore the galaxy, but born just in time to explore the dank memes".

 

I agree entirely with that. We might consider ourselves technologically advanced and while we are, I think we're still primitive as a species because we are willing to kill each other over trivial matters such as religion and we treat each other as lesser if they're a woman (in some places), if they're not white or if they're homosexual.

[Mathematical]

Aliens that have the technology to travel great distances in a short period of time would find the human race inferior and not worthy of their attention. The only reason aliens with that tech would visit earth was to colonize. In that case, they would easily destroy world's military.

[Albatross]

Aliens visiting us doesn't have to be out of aggression or the need to dominate/push out into the universe.

[LOLZpersonok]

10 minutes ago, Albatross said:

Aliens visiting us doesn't have to be out of aggression or the need to dominate/push out into the universe.

I've thought that in more advanced civilizations, empathy might be more common place because they might have gotten through all the prejudice and social disparity within their own species, something that we have yet to overcome. I'm always surprised at how many humans here seem to lack empathy. So, in effect I've figured that more advanced civilizations would probably have weaker primal urges to conquer and defeat than what humans have. They'd also be smarter and probably would not kill unnecessarily.

Edited February 3, 2016 by LOLZpersonok

[Albatross]

3 hours ago, LOLZpersonok said:

I've thought that in more advanced civilizations, empathy might be more common place because they might have gotten through all the prejudice and social disparity within their own species, something that we have yet to overcome. I'm always surprised at how many humans here seem to lack empathy. So, in effect I've figured that more advanced civilizations would probably have weaker primal urges to conquer and defeat than what humans have. They'd also be smarter and probably would not kill unnecessarily.

 

Having higher intelligence doesn't mean they won't have the same kind of problems we do though. They will have wars against each other over trivial things and sometimes not so trivial, discrimination (etc), and do unimaginable things to each other in whatever they think is for the best. This isn't something we as humans can actually grow out, and I doubt any other species can grow out of it either.

[DutchTexan]

22 hours ago, Albatross said:

 Power, money, and control. It always comes down to those three things.

 

Precisely. Let’s say someone comes up with the answer to everything there ever was. How long would it take for him/her to actually prove it? How long would it take the rest of the world to then believe it? How long would it take individuals in society to actually use it to better their own lives instead of try to change other people and things around them?

 

I think this subject [intelligent extraterrestrial life] is difficult, because humans can only understand things from their level of perception. If, for example, we factor in dimensional time, or some other crazy shit that is physically impossible to understand, they very well could be sitting right next us without us being aware. I think it’s important to highlight scale, scale of ignorance and scale in general, and how important that is when we discuss the universe, let alone the observable universe or just our galaxy for that fact.

 

When you look down on an ant hill do you ever stop and think, what is that ant right there thinking?

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

 

Precisely. Let’s say someone comes up with the answer to everything there ever was. How long would it take for him/her to actually prove it? How long would it take the rest of the world to then believe it? How long would it take individuals in society to actually use it to better their own lives instead of try to change other people and things around them?

 

I think this subject [intelligent extraterrestrial life] is difficult, because humans can only understand things from their level of perception. If, for example, we factor in dimensional time, or some other crazy shit that is physically impossible to understand, they very well could be sitting right next us without us being aware. I think it’s important to highlight scale, scale of ignorance and scale in general, and how important that is when we discuss the universe, let alone the observable universe or just our galaxy for that fact.

 

When you look down on an ant hill do you ever stop and think, what is that ant right there thinking?

I do, but I am weird. 

[DutchTexan]

Just now, stconquest said:

I do, but I am weird. 

Hey, it’s the weird people who change the world. Everyone else are, ultimately, just chasing imaginarey images in their head.