Possible Common Issue

[Guest]

Hi, so I have an included an image of what my connections look like and I'm having a bit of trouble. On my desktop, I am using both WiFi and ethernet. WiFi/Wireless for connecting to my internet modem and then an ethernet connection to connect to my router for being part of a small offline/not internet connected private network for files and sharing management. When I have ethernet plugged in on my desktop, Skype doesn't work but webpages will load. So is this an issue with the router's settings or is this a common issue with Windows? I've had this issue before but I haven't really solved it on a PC but I have with a Mac. Any ideas? 

[Hlong]

That is a retarded setup.

[Guest]

That is a retarded setup.

No it's not.

[Jykos]

Why not modem to router?

[boarder2k7]

Why not modem to router?

Isolated private network as he said in the OP.

@Yames Check your Skype settings, you may be able to change something there. I haven't used Skype in a while so I don't remember, but if Web pages work then Skype can be made to as well I'd think.

[Guest]

Why not modem to router?

I completely would, but I have to have my router in a separate area so I can't do an ethernet connection there 

[Guest]

Isolated private network as he said in the OP.

@Yames Check your Skype settings, you may be able to change something there. I haven't used Skype in a while so I don't remember, but if Web pages work then Skype can be made to as well I'd think.

Did some more testing and I had trouble uploading and posting this thread while wired with ethernet in the example above, it doesn't sound like Skype 

 

edit- I'll keep it disconnected for now or I'll move to a different PC for diagnosing problems if necessary, I think it's an OS issue but I still don't know what it is 

[Bl00dgod]

beeing "wired" wont help if your connection still is via wifi @Yames

 

why dont you just connect the router with the modem via wifi if thats possible, instead of ethernet if the modem is "separated"

( swap your desk pc and router in the graphic )

you could still put your laptop into a subnet and use it "offline" so its safe

[Guest]

beeing "wired" wont help if your connection still is via wifi

 

why dont you just connect the router with the modem via wifi if ethernet isnt possible

you could still put your laptop into a subnet and use it "offline" so its safe

The wired connection is for a separate private offline not connected to the internet network. As for connecting the router with WiFi, how would I do that? Would the router give more control? I'm staying away from having the router hooked up to the modem because I'm worried about security settings, and I'm not sure I understand how well that would work out 

 

edit - 

Is it possible to have multiple routers connected to one modem? And then is it possible to have multiple 'sub' routers connected to a main router? I can't see a reason why not, it should seem possible 

 

edit 2 - 

if your solution does work, then I'll use it, but I still want to solve this issue because I know it's possible to solve - I've had it on a Mac before but it's different to solve for Windows 

[Bl00dgod]

thats what a router is supposed to do... ROUTE that stuff into the area you want it to

 

and if i dont get you wrong your laptop should stay "offline"

while the pc should be "online"

 

then put the laptop into a "private network" (subnet), so you cant reach it from the internet, but from your pc

you need to setup the ip of your router in your pc as "standardgateway"

this means if your pc doesnt know the way it asks the router that knows it and guides the desktop into the web

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network

 

 

no need for multiple routers because 1 can route between multiple networks

 

edit try renaming the topic name with full editor to "network issues" or routing help

[Guest]

thats what a router is supposed to do... ROUTE that stuff into the area you want it to

 

and if i dont get you wrong your laptop should stay "offline"

while the pc should be "online"

 

then put the laptop into a "private network" (subnet), so you cant reach it from the internet, but from your pc

you need to setup the ip of your router in your pc as "standardgateway"

this means if your pc doesnt know the way it asks the router that knows it and guides the desktop into the web

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network

 

 

no need for multiple routers because 1 can route between multiple networks

 

edit try renaming the topic name with full editor to "network issues" or routing help

I will, but can you solve the current software issue? I'm planning on making some changes after all of this, but do you know how to solve the first issue? Is it an OS problem or a router software problem 

[Bl00dgod]

i think this should solve the problem with skype and other software

[brwainer]

When you connect the computer by wired to the router and get an IP address, the router will give you a default route. That means the router says "Hey computer you can totally trust me to get all your data to the internet". BTW the modem is doing the exact same thing. So your computer gets two default routes set up, and thinks it can use either one to get online, but actually anything it sends to the router won't get to the internet because the router has no way to do that. Also BTW, Windows likes to prioritize a wired connection over a wireless one, even sometimes when it straight out tells you that the wired connection doesn't connect you to the Internet (i.e. It says Limited or Local Connection only).

A final issue would come up if the subnets being used by the modem and by the router overlap, like both using 192.168.1.1/24

There are a few ways to fix this, here are three off the top of my head:

1. Only use Static IP addressses on your private network (the one wired through the router), and don't assign a default gateway on that interface - best option

2. Change the route cost for the default gateway on the wired adaptor to be higher than the route cost for the default gateway on the wireless adaptor - I've done this before in Windows with both interfaces using DHCP, but I don't remember what commands. It can't be done through the GUI.

3. Find a way to have your router not supply a default gateway with it's DHCP offers. This is the silliest solution I think, and I also know that most consumer routers won't even let you do this.

[Guest]

When you connect the computer by wired to the router and get an IP address, the router will give you a default route. That means the router says "Hey computer you can totally trust me to get all your data to the internet". BTW the modem is doing the exact same thing. So your computer gets two default routes set up, and thinks it can use either one to get online, but actually anything it sends to the router won't get to the internet because the router has no way to do that. Also BTW, Windows likes to prioritize a wired connection over a wireless one, even sometimes when it straight out tells you that the wired connection doesn't connect you to the Internet (i.e. It says Limited or Local Connection only).

A final issue would come up if the subnets being used by the modem and by the router overlap, like both using 192.168.1.1/24

There are a few ways to fix this, here are three off the top of my head:

1. Only use Static IP addressses on your private network (the one wired through the router), and don't assign a default gateway on that interface - best option

2. Change the route cost for the default gateway on the wired adaptor to be higher than the route cost for the default gateway on the wireless adaptor - I've done this before in Windows with both interfaces using DHCP, but I don't remember what commands. It can't be done through the GUI.

3. Find a way to have your router not supply a default gateway with it's DHCP offers. This is the silliest solution I think, and I also know that most consumer routers won't even let you do this.

YES! I remember now! It's a connection priority issue! Thank you! So... there's nothing I can do like in a GUI in Windows or anything to solve it? 

[leadeater]

YES! I remember now! It's a connection priority issue! Thank you! So... there's nothing I can do like in a GUI in Windows or anything to solve it? 

 

Yep you can set network adapter priority order. Open 'Network and Sharing Center', click 'Change adapter settings', when the window pops up press the 'Alt' key to show the toolbar, click 'Advanced' then 'Advanced Settings...', in the window that pops up the first box you can set the adapter order.

[leadeater]

@Yames Changing the network layout that has already been suggested is your best option. Personally I think you are over thinking the security side of things and not actually achieving what you think you are.

 

By having the desktop connected by wifi to the internet router and the ethernet port to the private router you have still linked the two networks together and just made the desktop computer an attack vector in to the private network. Since the desktop computer is much more likely to be compromised than the internet router just linking the two network segments together adds no extra risk.

 

If you are going for an air gap style setup you need a truly separate physical and logical gap between the two networks.

 

I don't know what kind of money you have to spend but you are likely better off buying a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X and cabling that between the internet modem and plugging the desktop directly in to the EdgeRouter X. Then on another port plug the wireless router in for the private network. Setup the desktop port on it's own VLAN/IP Range and the port for the wireless modem on a different VLAN/IP Range. Then on the EdgeRouter X block the private network IP range from the internet and only allow traffic to that VLAN from the single desktop IP, or collection of IP's you trust.

 

This is just a rough guide of what to do just to give you an idea of an option, if it sounds plausible or want further info just ask. I run a similar type of setup but I have a core switch, Cisco SG300, with routing features and a dedicated FortiGate 60D firewall.

 

Edit: I can Visio diagram my setup for you so it makes more sense if you want, no need to spend what I have but the EdgeRouter X (~$60 USD) will give you almost everything of what I am doing.

[Guest]

See this is the fucking problem. I came here with a software issue not a hardware one. As much as I appreciate the feedback on having a better setup, my goal was to solve a completely different issue. 

[brwainer]

Yep you can set network adapter priority order. Open 'Network and Sharing Center', click 'Change adapter settings', when the window pops up press the 'Alt' key to show the toolbar, click 'Advanced' then 'Advanced Settings...', in the window that pops up the first box you can set the adapter order.

This might (probably will) solve the issue, but it's working at a different level than changing the route priorities / costs. When I said you can't do it in the GUI, I meant you have to use the command line

[brwainer]

See this is the fucking problem. I came here with a software issue not a hardware one. As much as I appreciate the feedback on having a better setup, my goal was to solve a completely different issue.

Agreed, since you already explained why you can't do wiring to the modem I can only assume the people who keep suggesting that aren't reading your whole post

[Guest]

Yep you can set network adapter priority order. Open 'Network and Sharing Center', click 'Change adapter settings', when the window pops up press the 'Alt' key to show the toolbar, click 'Advanced' then 'Advanced Settings...', in the window that pops up the first box you can set the adapter order.

Had a look and I think I fixed the issue, I'm surprised the menu was that hard to find and was that old, did they update it in like Windows 10 or something? 

 

Again, thank you so much!!!!!

[leadeater]

Had a look and I think I fixed the issue, I'm surprised the menu was that hard to find and was that old, did they update it in like Windows 10 or something? 

 

Again, thank you so much!!!!!

 

It's been in windows for a long time, used to be easy to find in the XP and earlier era but when they went vista etc they hid that thing real good.

[leadeater]

This might (probably will) solve the issue, but it's working at a different level than changing the route priorities / costs. When I said you can't do it in the GUI, I meant you have to use the command line

 

Yea, just changes which default gateway to use when you have two adapters set with them and both are active. Only having one default gateway and setting up persistent routes via command line is better but thought it would be useful information to know. The priority order effects other things too but generally you never have to change it or even look at that menu.

 

Essentially you should really only ever have one default gateway in almost every situation for desktop computer configurations, but you already know this

[leadeater]

See this is the fucking problem. I came here with a software issue not a hardware one. As much as I appreciate the feedback on having a better setup, my goal was to solve a completely different issue. 

 

Hope you didn't mind me suggesting a better config, at least I posted a possible solution to the current problem first before going off on a tangent

[Guest]

Hope you didn't mind me suggesting a better config, at least I posted a possible solution to the current problem first before going off on a tangent

I'm just happy I finally found the fucking GUI window for controlling it. Honestly Microsoft, using the "alt" key? I literally would have never found that 

[leadeater]

I'm just happy I finally found the fucking GUI window for controlling it. Honestly Microsoft, using the "alt" key? I literally would have never found that 

 

Try the Alt key in other windows too, it unhides tons of things in many places. Beyond me as to why they felt the need to hide the stuff in the fist place and only be able to show it with an obscure hot key.