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Simple File Server/Build Advice

xerodox
By xerodox
in Storage Devices
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So I'm trying to make a simple file server for my family. Looking into prices, it seems I'm slight better off to do something like this than to just buy a Drobo. 
I was thinking of using the following parts either with Ubuntu or FreeNas.   Yes, I didn't select western digital Red drives. This will most likely be used to STORE movies, not transcode them. 

Though I'm quite certain the processor could probably handle atleast 1 transcode session at a time with plex. 

And the data on it is not SUPER important. But the drives I did select had very good reviews. If you know of a better Drive thats more reliable for  the money spent, feel free to chime in. 
My questions are mainly what is a good Sata to PCI controller card that will work with the mother board I've selected.
If you know of a better embedded solution in the same price range feel free to rearrange the build if you think my money could be spent better.
Prices in USD please, and extra points if it all comes from Microcenter, since there's one by me. 
 
 
 
CPU: Intel Pentium G3220 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($49.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($62.89 @ OutletPC) 
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($45.99 @ Directron) 
Total: $529.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-15 18:06 EST-0500
 
-Edited to show the Revised Build 
 
I have a budget of about no MORE than 600 USD for the whole system including hard drives. 
 
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do you need data redundancy? if not just jbod the drives. (just a bunch of drives)

if you do, you could look into getting a 4th HDD, and a dirt cheap raid card that supports raid 10. giving you 6TB with data redundancy, without the need of a powerful raid card that can do raid 5 in a decent manner.

 

EDIT: you'll also need an extra drive as a boot drive. dont put your OS on the same disks as your data.

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I don't necessarily need data redundancy, but its not fun to lose 3 terabytes of movies if a drive goes down. What is a cheap raid card you'd recommend for this setup?  And, also, it seems like software raid would be easier to maintain than Hardware raid. I'm tech savvy, but this is territory I've never ventured into. 

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I have a couple suggestions with the hardware:

 

  • That PSU is seriously overkill for the machine. You could downgrade to the 430W version and save a bit of money.
  • If you just want a basic file server, that A6 board is also a bit overpowered. You could go to something like a Celeron 1037u board to save about $20.

The Cheap SFF Wonder -- Turning a Core 2 Duo SFF machine into a useful member of computer society!

i5 3570 -- AS.Rock Z77 Pro3 -- 12GB DDR3 -- R9 380X -- 840Evo 500GB/1TB HDD 

I speak the honest truth with a bit of snark mixed in. I'm sorry if it doesn't line up with your beliefs.

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That celeron U board also comes with 2 more sata ports than the build I had picked out. Thats why I come to you guys :]   

Fire219, I did take both of your suggestions into account and edited the build. 

With the powersupply tho, I want enough power adapters to be able to power possibly up to 8 drives.

I couldn't tell on amazon whether that power supply even came with 4 sata power connections to begin with,

Let alone any extra Molex ones I could convert. 

 

I'll just use that sata controller card to add four more drives in, if the power supply can handle it.

Only problem with that celeron board is it has a Realtek chipset, and FreeNAS has been known to work better with Intel Nics.

Not sure about Ubuntu though, probably would be fine with that.  

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That celeron U board also comes with 2 more sata ports than the build I had picked out. Thats why I come to you guys :]   

Fire219, I did take both of your suggestions into account and edited the build. 

With the powersupply tho, I want enough power adapters to be able to power possibly up to 8 drives.

I couldn't tell on amazon whether that power supply even came with 4 sata power connections to begin with,

Let alone any extra Molex ones I could convert. 

You can also split SATA power from 1 to 4.

"Epic Voice, Quality Content"

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What do you mean?

Something like this?

https://jet.com/product/detail/6ca035a5881f48d597570dd0aaa53810?jcmp=pla:ggl:electronics_a3:electronics_accessories_cables_network_cables_a3_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&k_clickid=394e97cb-2a8f-4a3e-adf0-202342138468&gclid=Cj0KEQiA7rmzBRDezri2r6bz1qYBEiQAg-YEtq1VGOunXyZhike_NdOYOxdsoOYQka7TUsyox-yAkq0aAgmb8P8HAQ

 

Possibly this? 

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Power-Splitter-Adapter-PYO4SATA/dp/B0086OGN9E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1390109868&sr=8-2&keywords=sata+splitter+power

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I was thinking something more like this is more elegant. 

 

I've used them before with no problems that I was aware of.

"Epic Voice, Quality Content"

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.....it has a Realtek chipset, and FreeNAS has been known to work better with Intel Nics.....

That's the least of your concerns if you plan on using FreeNAS.

 

You NEED ECC RAM with FreeNAS. It is not an option. You will eventually loose all your data if you do not use ECC RAM. If you don't want to spend the money on ECC, go with Ubuntu or Amahi. Hinestly though, sounds like you'd be better off with a prebuilt solution.

 

You can get a Qnap TS 431 or a Synology DS 414, both with ARM processors for around the $300 mark. Or you can get something like the Qnap TS-451 with a Dual core Celeron for around $400.

 

It's really pushing the upper end of your budget, but the software and support might make it worth it for you. Just something to think about.

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Yea its just slightly too far out of my budget, especially if i wanted to purchase NAS specific drives for better reliability, which is something I have considered, just trying to decide if its worth it for only movies and music. 

Also, there are certain functions I need a full fledge operating system for.

This box may host a private facebook like site for friends and family to upload photos too,

Plus a certain encrypted chat I like to run, that would have access to those files. 

It just makes it easier for me, because if I just get a hard drive enclosure type solution, then i have to make ANOTHER box to run the server functions,

instead of this being all in one.. I guess I failed to mention some of that at the beginning of the post. Sorry guys :[

I guess I should mention I run all that on a fiber connection, so its not slow,

and having a full fludge computer with 12 or more terabytes benifits me more than just a NAS enclosure. 

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That's the least of your concerns if you plan on using FreeNAS.

 

You NEED ECC RAM with FreeNAS. It is not an option. You will eventually loose all your data if you do not use ECC RAM.

 

Ummmmm no.  You do not need ECC ram with FreeNAS.  The only real requirement is at least 8GB for ZFS, ECC is just advantageous.  I ran 8GB regular DDR3 with ZFS freenas for years no dramas.

CPU: i7 4770K 4.2Ghz, Mobo: Asrock Fatal1ty Z97x Killer, GFX: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX (x2 SLI), RAM: G.Skill 1600Mhz CAS 9 16GB, DSK Intel 530 120GB OS, Crucial M500 120GB, WD 1TB Blue, WD 1TB Green, PSU: Corsair AX1200i, Case: Obsidian 750D. 

SERVER HP ProLiant Microserver N54L, FreeNAS: ZFS, 8TB (4x 2TB WD Red), RAID Z2, 16GB ECC RAM, 1Gb/s Link Aggregated:  Running as NAS, Plex, & ownCloud

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Yea its just slightly too far out of my budget, especially if i wanted to purchase NAS specific drives for better reliability, which is something I have considered, just trying to decide if its worth it for only movies and music. 

Also, there are certain functions I need a full fledge operating system for.

This box may host a private facebook like site for friends and family to upload photos too,

Plus a certain encrypted chat I like to run, that would have access to those files. 

It just makes it easier for me, because if I just get a hard drive enclosure type solution, then i have to make ANOTHER box to run the server functions,

instead of this being all in one.. I guess I failed to mention some of that at the beginning of the post. Sorry guys :[

I guess I should mention I run all that on a fiber connection, so its not slow,

and having a full fludge computer with 12 or more terabytes benifits me more than just a NAS enclosure. 

 

I think you're asking a bit much from a low end dual core Celeron. It's just okay for a basic file server, but planning to having it host a website is a bit much for the CPU.

 

You might also check if your internet connection even allows you to host a website. Some ISPs will block the ports you need to make it work, not to mention you need a static IP to make it viable. The ISP usually will push you to business internet to get those features.

 

As for getting more drive cages, you might look at 5.25" to 3.5" hard drive bays. They fit in the DVD drive slots.

 

If you don't mind used stuff, you might hunt around on ebay for used servers. They sell complete servers for dirt cheap sometimes.

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Should be very easy to find a well priced IBM M1115 card on ebay. It's a good entry level RAID card that supports hardware and JBOD, I have two myself along with more expensive LSI offerings too. This will give you 8 SATA ports so can expand quite far. You will need SFF-8087 mini-SAS to 4x SATA cables also.

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~snip~

 

Hey there xerodox,
 
Just a few words on the storage part:
- It is recommended to use NAS/RAID-class drives due to the additional features that they have (such as TLER). These drives are designed specifically for the purpose of such builds that you are doing. Other types of drives might have problems with often dropping out of the array, corrupting data or simply failing more often due to the type of workloads.  
 
- You can also consider a pre-built NAS solution for the simple data storage. Depending on the storage space required and the number of bays I can suggest that you check out WD My Cloud Mirror, WD My Cloud EX2 and WD My Cloud EX4 :) all of the them should work great as file sharing NAS devices. Here's some more info on them: 
 
Feel free to ask if you have questions :) 
 
Captain_WD.

If this helped you, like and choose it as best answer - you might help someone else with the same issue. ^_^
WDC Representative, http://www.wdc.com/ 

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Ummmmm no.  You do not need ECC ram with FreeNAS.  The only real requirement is at least 8GB for ZFS, ECC is just advantageous.  I ran 8GB regular DDR3 with ZFS freenas for years no dramas.

Well then, you should probably let the guys who wrote all the info on FreeNAS and ZFS in the forums and the countless other places that will tell you that ECC is a requirement that they are wrong. You got away with it for a while, so that must obviously means that the people who built the code for ZFS are wrong when they say you need ECC.

 

ECC can be "advantageous" in the same way that not loosing your entire pool to corruption can be considered "advantageous". 

 

This is not a requirement of FreeNAS; this is a requirement of ZFS in general. Educate yourself on how ZFS actually works and you will see that you can not trust your data to any RAM other than ECC.

 

There are plenty of other file system option for those that would choose not to run ECC. 

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Hey there xerodox,
 
Just a few words on the storage part:
- It is recommended to use NAS/RAID-class drives due to the additional features that they have (such as TLER). These drives are designed specifically for the purpose of such builds that you are doing. Other types of drives might have problems with often dropping out of the array, corrupting data or simply failing more often due to the type of workloads.  
 
- You can also consider a pre-built NAS solution for the simple data storage. Depending on the storage space required and the number of bays I can suggest that you check out WD My Cloud Mirror, WD My Cloud EX2 and WD My Cloud EX4 :) all of the them should work great as file sharing NAS devices. Here's some more info on them: 
 
Feel free to ask if you have questions :)
 
Captain_WD.

 

 

Okay so it looks like I'll switch to NAS drives since you guys have recommended it so much. 

However a prebuilt solution does no meet my needs of an FTP server and encrypted chat. 

My Friends and family and my self need to access it from outside my home network,

Prebuilt just wont work for me. 

 

I've decided try something like this:

 

 
CPU: Intel Pentium G3220 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($49.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($62.89 @ OutletPC) 
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($45.99 @ Directron) 
Total: $529.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-15 18:06 EST-0500
 
Thoughts?
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I am responding directly to your comment here...

 

You NEED ECC RAM with FreeNAS. It is not an option. 

 

This is just wrong.  It is not a requirement or pre-requisite for ZFS, and it will run quite alright without ECC if using best practices (backups).

 

TLDR:   ECC is good, but it is a WANT not a NEED

CPU: i7 4770K 4.2Ghz, Mobo: Asrock Fatal1ty Z97x Killer, GFX: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX (x2 SLI), RAM: G.Skill 1600Mhz CAS 9 16GB, DSK Intel 530 120GB OS, Crucial M500 120GB, WD 1TB Blue, WD 1TB Green, PSU: Corsair AX1200i, Case: Obsidian 750D. 

SERVER HP ProLiant Microserver N54L, FreeNAS: ZFS, 8TB (4x 2TB WD Red), RAID Z2, 16GB ECC RAM, 1Gb/s Link Aggregated:  Running as NAS, Plex, & ownCloud

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I am responding directly to your comment here...

 

 

This is just wrong.  It is not a requirement or pre-requisite for ZFS, and it will run quite alright without ECC if using best practices (backups).

 

TLDR:   ECC is good, but it is a WANT not a NEED

 

 

Straight from the official FreeNAS guide:

 

"If you consider your data to be important, use ECC RAM."

 

 

 

From the RAM discussion on the FreeNAS forums, by Cyberjock:

 

"To protect your data from loss with ZFS, here's what you need to know:

1. Use ECC RAM. Period. If you don't like that answer, sorry. It's just a fundamental truth."

 

 

 

 

Not sure what else to tell you. ZFS and FreeNAS by extesion require the use off ECC, if you have any interest at all in protecting your data. Every time you run a scrub, even a single bit error will propagate through your data and eventually compromise your pool. Backups of the data on your pool are worthless too. The data is corrupted in RAM before ZFS can fix it and so you will be backing up corrupted data. As you continue to corrupt your pool further and further with regular scrubs, that corrupted data will continue to be backed up, overwriting the good data.

 

Sure ZFS will run on any RAM, just like a 1000 horsepower supercar will run on 87 octane gas. But neither were designed or intended to operate that way and if you do it long enough, you're in for a bad time.

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PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YNjC7P
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YNjC7P/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Celeron G1820 2.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($36.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus B85M-D PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($49.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($17.69 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Western Digital Red 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($149.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Red 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($149.00 @ B&H)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply  ($57.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $460.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-15 19:09 EST-0500

 

Get something like this, I'm not sure about the MoBo but the rest should fill your needs. Case is up to you what you prefer

You could get still a bit cheaper if you take an a4 4000 combo

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Straight from the official FreeNAS guide:

 

"If you consider your data to be important, use ECC RAM."

 

 

 

From the RAM discussion on the FreeNAS forums, by Cyberjock:

 

"To protect your data from loss with ZFS, here's what you need to know:

1. Use ECC RAM. Period. If you don't like that answer, sorry. It's just a fundamental truth."

 

 

 

 

Not sure what else to tell you. ZFS and FreeNAS by extesion require the use off ECC, if you have any interest at all in protecting your data. Every time you run a scrub, even a single bit error will propagate through your data and eventually compromise your pool. Backups of the data on your pool are worthless too. The data is corrupted in RAM before ZFS can fix it and so you will be backing up corrupted data. As you continue to corrupt your pool further and further with regular scrubs, that corrupted data will continue to be backed up, overwriting the good data.

 

Sure ZFS will run on any RAM, just like a 1000 horsepower supercar will run on 87 octane gas. But neither were designed or intended to operate that way and if you do it long enough, you're in for a bad time.

you're getting WAAAY carried away.... 

 

there is no  "by extension require ECC"   If you build a FreeNAS box without ECC RAM, it will turn on, run, and be happy. because of this, it does not REQUIRE it.

ECC RAM is never REQUIRED, it is just strongly advised in MISSION CRITICAL situations. 

something tells me this guy's computer backups aren't going to cost him millions of dollars if he loses a picture of dickbutt.

ESXi SysAdmin

I have more cores/threads than you...and I use them all

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