1050+ ports switch in server-rack

[Vampire2.0]

hi everyone,

 

i'm planning on giving a lanparty for 1050 people and i need a big switch setup for it.

Things i need to connect:

- 1 gigabit internet connection

- 1 database 50+TB

- 3 dedicated servers that use the database for everything except booting up

- 1050 gaming setups

 

Thing you maybe want to know:

- we already have a 42U rack but we have still 30U space in it for the switches

- all the gaming-setups will be connected with 60 meter cat5 cable (PoE?)

- everyone needs the almost the same ping 

- the dedicated servers have 10 gigabit network cards

- as cheap as possible but can be over €20'000

 

Things we would like:

- plug and play

 

does anyone has any recommendations or questions about it?

 

Thanks

 

[sorry for my English i'm dutch]

[Vitalius]

So you are asking for server grade equipment. I am assuming you are strictly talking about the switch/switches based on the title and the sub-forum you posted this in.

Get 22 of these.

 

And call it a day? Not sure if you would need more for some other reason or if you need special equipment to make that many switches talk to each other or handle that level of data transfer (Though I cannot expect that to be a problem if all you are doing is gaming). 

You should not need more, but if you do, that leaves a budget of around 3,000 euros left over for other things as that comes out to about 16,000 euros total.

[Excon]

Nice post @Vitalius . I just have 1 thing to comment on, if you need 1050 rigs there is no way you could do this for 20k. This will surely be one awesome event if it works out.

[Vitalius]

Nice post @Vitalius . I just have 1 thing to comment on, if you need 1050 rigs there is no way you could do this for 20k. This will surely be one awesome event if it works out.

I edited it. I realized what he was asking about. The section of the forum is Networking and the title is about switches, so I think it is safe to assume he is asking for a setup that will work for all his requirements. 

But yeah, if he means for the entire thing, 20,000 euros is not going to cover it. Not even close.

[MrSuperb]

I doubt, that many here would know how to manage such a huge amount of network devices ...

Also you would want some backup, as you don't want some players seriously getting pissed of because one of the switches fails ...

 

I think your best bet would be to invest some of the money in an networking expert

[Vitalius]

I doubt, that many here would know how to manage such a huge amount of network devices ...

Also you would want some backup, as you don't want some players seriously getting pissed of because one of the switches fails ...

 

I think your best bet would be to invest some of the money in an networking expert

Well... I mean... there is only "so much" to a network. Do not get me wrong, it can get complicated in regards to protocols, NAT, subnet masks <-> IP addresses and such, but I doubt he or anyone else would have to deal with any of that.

So long as all that was happening is gaming on a LAN (which is why it should not be overtly complicated), I have no reason to believe that having a sufficient number of switches as well as IP addresses on the same subnet mask (255.255.250.0 would suffice IIRC) would not be enough to make this work.

If they all require internet (which I assume they do since internet is mentioned in the OP), then the same should still be true so long as they have a decent machine to handle all that traffic/IP addresses. I am thinking a pFsense "heavy duty" router, heavy duty in the sense that it is a desktop computer configured to be a router via pFsense.

If someone wanted to connect over the internet (though they could not possibly have the same ping this way), it would still work effectively the same way. Nothing should have to change.

[rufee]

First of all what kind of a router have you got there and in general what equipment is in place ?

If you want strictly a LAN with no outside access its best that you would still have a DHCP somewhere to serve out IP's for the obvious reason.

As for the switches there is no need to buy such expensive ones get cheaper managed switches with 24-48 + 2-4 gigE ports depending on your table layout, also have backup switches if any of them fail.

I assume you want a centralized network that all the switches connect to so you will need a full gigabit (all ports) probably even a few 10 gig ports for the servers switch at the end that could plug into the router for DHCP.

Full gigabit: http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ProSafe-48-Port-Gigabit-GS748TNA/dp/B00062WV9U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377502939&sr=8-3&keywords=managed+switch+48+port

HP's procurves are also a good choice.

If you are going to have a good amount of traffic going outside the LAN and if your ISP will provide IP's for all the machines you will need a router that supports BGP, OSPF

something like: http://routerboard.com/CCR1036-12G-4S-EM if not and you only need DHCP then this: http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 will suffice, they are easy to set up and monitor also quite cheap for all the features they offer. Ofc Cisco or Juniper routers would work.

 

Also have a guy or two on site that know enough networking to monitor and replace switches and solve other problems that will arise, its best that you hire a person that is trained in this field.

[Dr3nz4r]

http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ProSafe-48-Port-Gigabit-GS748TNA/dp/B00062WV9U/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377505871&sr=1-1&keywords=48+port

Look its on deal.. half of that other switch..

so get 25 of those ( so u have 3 backup switches), pay 10.454,25$ for it, and somehow set the network up. Afaik there shouldnt be any problems with IP adress and subnet masks with this grade of switches.

[Guest]

Is this a one off event or a permanent installation? Either way I would be going to the relevant companies. With permanent installation, there is set requirements for power, spacing etc that depends on local law. There are also companies that will take care of installation and management for a small event over a weekend etc. 

[Vampire2.0]

Nice post @Vitalius . I just have 1 thing to comment on, if you need 1050 rigs there is no way you could do this for 20k. This will surely be one awesome event if it works out.

its for a lan event and everyone brings his own setup

 

-The 20'000€ budget is just for the switch setup

 

 

First of all what kind of a router have you got there and in general what equipment is in place ?

If you want strictly a LAN with no outside access its best that you would still have a DHCP somewhere to serve out IP's for the obvious reason.

As for the switches there is no need to buy such expensive ones get cheaper managed switches with 24-48 + 2-4 gigE ports depending on your table layout, also have backup switches if any of them fail.

I assume you want a centralized network that all the switches connect to so you will need a full gigabit (all ports) probably even a few 10 gig ports for the servers switch at the end that could plug into the router for DHCP.

Full gigabit: http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ProSafe-48-Port-Gigabit-GS748TNA/dp/B00062WV9U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377502939&sr=8-3&keywords=managed+switch+48+port

HP's procurves are also a good choice.

If you are going to have a good amount of traffic going outside the LAN and if your ISP will provide IP's for all the machines you will need a router that supports BGP, OSPF

something like: http://routerboard.com/CCR1036-12G-4S-EM if not and you only need DHCP then this: http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 will suffice, they are easy to set up and monitor also quite cheap for all the features they offer. Ofc Cisco or Juniper routers would work.

 

Also have a guy or two on site that know enough networking to monitor and replace switches and solve other problems that will arise, its best that you hire a person that is trained in this field.

 

we have 1 cat6 cable to the outside world just for some browsing, streaming, watching videos,...

 

all servers will be hosted on the lan in the 1 42U rack

 

http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ProSafe-48-Port-Gigabit-GS748TNA/dp/B00062WV9U/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377505871&sr=1-1&keywords=48+port

Look its on deal.. half of that other switch..

so get 25 of those ( so u have 3 backup switches), pay 10.454,25$ for it, and somehow set the network up. Afaik there shouldnt be any problems with IP adress and subnet masks with this grade of switches.

looks very nice

 

but can i set them up so there is no pingchange between 2 persons on 1 shitch en 2 persons that are connected to the top and bottum one

 

btw everyone has the same cable length (60m) (about 4 tons of network cables :-) )

 

 

Is this a one off event or a permanent installation? Either way I would be going to the relevant companies. With permanent installation, there is set requirements for power, spacing etc that depends on local law. There are also companies that will take care of installation and management for a small event over a weekend etc. 

 

the clan-leader and also 1 of the 3 hosts of the event runs a teamspeak3 server and an css server and he will take good care of it and use it for the clan. and the next years of the lan.

 

we also have a 3000kwh of power we can use so that wont be a problem

[Dr3nz4r]

looks very nice

 

but can i set them up so there is no pingchange between 2 persons on 1 shitch en 2 persons that are connected to the top and bottum one

 

btw everyone has the same cable length (60m) (about 4 tons of network cables :-) )

 

 

There should be not that ping difference.. maybe 1-2 ms but this is not noticeable at all.. if you do wire everything up correctly.

[Guest]

the clan-leader and also 1 of the 3 hosts of the event runs a teamspeak3 server and an css server and he will take good care of it and use it for the clan. and the next years of the lan.

 

Either way it does not matter. This sort of scale should not be left to people who are basically amateurs. People spend years learning how to use Cisco routing systems for this scale of event. This isn't a couple of switches for a few friends - what you're looking at is essentially putting a data centre together. 

 

You'll also need electricians to wire the power up amongst other things. Even if everyone only draws 300w of power, that's still 30Kw alone for the computers then you'll have the distro system to wire up - this isn't time for amateurs to be involved. 

[Vampire2.0]

Either way it does not matter. This sort of scale should not be left to people who are basically amateurs. People spend years learning how to use Cisco routing systems for this scale of event. This isn't a couple of switches for a few friends - what you're looking at is essentially putting a data centre together. 

 

You'll also need electricians to wire the power up amongst other things. Even if everyone only draws 300w of power, that's still 30Kw alone for the computers then you'll have the distro system to wire up - this isn't time for amateurs to be involved. 

 

the other one is an electrician

 

and i'm just the guy thats will builds and helps.

[Guest]

the other one is an electrician

 

and i'm just the guy thats will builds and helps.

He more than likely will not be able to do this unless he is an industrial electrician - it won't be wall voltage he's dealing with.

[JamesThresher]

I would recommend looking at 100Mbit 48 Port switches with Gb uplinks to a Gigabit Layer 3 Switch. If you have 1Gb Internet shared among 1050 people and it's primarily a gaming event then you don't need Gb bandwidth between every machine anyway and 100Mb setup properly should be more than enough. After all the key with lan events is going to be low latency not necessarily bandwidth. It would significantly reduce the costs too.

 

What's the 50Tb database for? That's a huge database

[Guest]

I'm not trying to be mean and intentionally shoot you down in flames but there are a lot of things you need to deal with:

• Legal requirements
• Power: you'll need industrial electricians to wire a 375kVA feed + do all the internal distribution wiring depending on local law. This is very very rare to have supplied locally and only a few buildings in Melbourne I know have that power - MCG, Etihad Stadium etc. You'd then be dependant on generator hire & relevant distros.
• Networking: qualified network administrator(s) to setup and manage 1000 independent connections and deal with the routing.
• Building infrastructure: can the building actually take the weight? There's 12000 tonnes of weight in the players PC's alone - data centres are specially built to manage the weight of the racks + all the other equipment.
• Game licensing - who pays for it all?
• Catering
• Sanitation
• Waste management
• Security & event coordination
• Air conditioning
• Public liability insurance of 20 million minimum.

[orangecat]

das alot of monay...

[rufee]

Well my take on this is that he is in charge of getting the network going if you are not then what the hell are you doing ?

The other thing is unless he is in Australia where your home walls are not yours, he can do whatever he wishes.

But yeah get people who know this stuff and can organize, if you are asking for what to get and do on this forum then you are probably not going to have a great LAN party.

[lions240]

Look into Cisco Campus systems. Universitys all over the place provide 10s of thousands of students with a reliable wired connection using a Cisco Campus LAN system.

[lions240]

I'm not trying to be mean and intentionally shoot you down in flames but there are a lot of things you need to deal with:

• Legal requirements
• Power: you'll need industrial electricians to wire a 375kVA feed + do all the internal distribution wiring depending on local law. This is very very rare to have supplied locally and only a few buildings in Melbourne I know have that power - MCG, Etihad Stadium etc. You'd then be dependant on generator hire & relevant distros.
• Networking: qualified network administrator(s) to setup and manage 1000 independent connections and deal with the routing.
• Building infrastructure: can the building actually take the weight? There's 12000 tonnes of weight in the players PC's alone - data centres are specially built to manage the weight of the racks + all the other equipment.
• Game licensing - who pays for it all?
• Catering
• Sanitation
• Waste management
• Security & event coordination
• Air conditioning
• Public liability insurance of 20 million minimum.

 

Also its a logistical nightmare, imagine that a group of 25 users cant connect, unless you are going to go in and configure every switch. they will have the host name Switch. You might want to hire a network technician.

[Blackterror25]

If this is a one time thing you could be better of by renting everything

 

**Websites outdated**

 

 

also what's the lanparty named?

[Vampire2.0]

I'm not trying to be mean and intentionally shoot you down in flames but there are a lot of things you need to deal with:

• Legal requirements
• Power: you'll need industrial electricians to wire a 375kVA feed + do all the internal distribution wiring depending on local law. This is very very rare to have supplied locally and only a few buildings in Melbourne I know have that power - MCG, Etihad Stadium etc. You'd then be dependant on generator hire & relevant distros.
• Networking: qualified network administrator(s) to setup and manage 1000 independent connections and deal with the routing.
• Building infrastructure: can the building actually take the weight? There's 12000 tonnes of weight in the players PC's alone - data centres are specially built to manage the weight of the racks + all the other equipment.
• Game licensing - who pays for it all?
• Catering
• Sanitation
• Waste management
• Security & event coordination
• Air conditioning
• Public liability insurance of 20 million minimum.

 

 

the electrician is qualified for industrial setups. we have a 2400KvA feed on the location so power enough

 

at 9 September 2013 i'm starting a course in networking that will be done at 01 July 2014 (the lan would be around 15 of august)

 

the building is strong enough (http://www.brusselsexpo.be/EXEN/site/infrastructure-detail.aspx?vPK=10&k=18)

 

game licensing (everyone has his own pc which should have the game licenses for  the games he/she want to play) 

 

catering, sanitation, waste management and security (persons) will be provided by the same people who we rent the building from

 

also for security reasons there will be cameras the record everything and that's why we need the 50TB database

and in the therms and conditions of the event there will be standing that we are not be held liable for any damages, whether direct or indirect, to any person, whether or not participants, or materials (including hardware and software) as a result of participating in the event. This also applies to technical failure and / or defects in hardware, software and vehicles and brought items by other participants whether or not caused by problems with the electricity network, the network, through fire or water damage and / or use of fire extinguishers. 

 

and on the tickets we will link to 1 sponsor that sells Kensington locks 

 

the building has air conditioning and enough ventilation to drive cars in it

 

as far as we know in belgium there is nit something like a "Public liability insurance"

if something happens everyone can get the money from there own fire insurance which is mandatory in belgium.

 

If this is a one time thing you could be better of by renting everything

 

**Websites outdated**

 

 

also what's the lanparty named?

 

We are just looking if its even possible to start-up a lan-party for 1000+ people as far as the calculations go we need 200'000€ for the first time we will do it. and that would be 200€/player if we don't get any sponsors

 

this would be a 3 times a year thingy and the first time we would be happy to just hit break even

the next event we would not need to buy anything network-wise, tables, chairs, power-cabling,... 

[rufee]

That is a fairly nice venue.

By game licensing he means in terms of tournaments, some developers want to you pay them to host a tourney.
Another thought why not get volunteers to help with the setup and monitoring ?

You also said you will have 1 cable to the outside, for 1000 people that is not enough you need to work something out with the ISP and get a good fiber connection going, i bet there will be people who will download stuff like steam games and other stuff so that will kill your one connection.

What kind of a course are you attending ?

[Guest]

• You shouldn't be responsible for CCTV and security monitoring. 
• Insurance isn't just general fire etc. You'll need to contact a law firm that specialises in this sort of thing and get both the insurance sorted + the terms and conditions of entry and participation. These documents are often tens of pages long.
• Also as Rufee mentioned, 1gbit isn't enough for 1000 people. You'll need 10gbit. 

[ygohome]

I just want to encourage @VampireKid that this is very cool and I want/hope it succeeds.