Voltage drop?

[_Grid21]

Yesterday I was streaming on twitch with a friend. I had Open Broadcaster, Minecraft, iTunes, Skype, and Chrome all open. Suddenly without warning, my one external hard drive disconnects on it's own and my computer got EXTREMELY sluggish. It took 2 minutes before I could finally get to Task Manager to see what was going on. The problem was, nothing was spiked to %100. Everything was normal when I stream. The computer finally seemed to go back to normal operation. Now some weeks ago I was talking to some people about how the Ultra X4 was a unstable PSU. I don't have money to replace it right now. I have a Intel 4790 3.6Ghz Quad core and a Asus Z87-Z motherboard. Did I have a voltage drop? How can I tell what happened? Windows Event Log doesn't show anything that could have happened. So what happened given what I just state? Is a Voltage drop the suspect? Or something else?

 

Thanks in advance

Josh.

[Godlygamer23]

What I would do is see if the issue can be repeated. Did you experience any kind of brown outs?

[_Grid21]

What I would do is see if the issue can be repeated. Did you experience any kind of brown outs?

No I did not. I have at least two power conditioners and surge protectors. 

[Godlygamer23]

No I did not. I have at least two power conditioners and surge protectors. 

See if the issue is repeated. May have just been a fluke.

[_Grid21]

See if the issue is repeated. May have just been a fluke.

But why would the hard disconnect and then suddenly get very sluggish? To say it was a fluke just simply isn't a good enough answer when my computer acts fine any other time I do my normal stream set up.

[Godlygamer23]

But why would the hard disconnect and then suddenly get very sluggish? To say it was a fluke just simply isn't a good enough answer when my computer acts fine any other time I do my normal stream set up.

So I did some research. The power supply is not all that great. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/24/ultra_x4_850w_1050w_power_supplies_review/5#.VWulFPn5FhE

I had suspected that it was the power supply causing issues, but I didn't want to make any definitive claims.

[runit3]

But why would the hard disconnect and then suddenly get very sluggish? To say it was a fluke just simply isn't a good enough answer when my computer acts fine any other time I do my normal stream set up.

It's the best answer you're likely to receive without monitoring all processes on your computer and then replicating the problem.

 

"Fluke" would fall into the category of a random process starting/stopping/halting that caused your problem. Windows Updates, Adobe updates, etc. are all examples of things that can randomly occur and throw a wrench into your normal operating procedure. Not many of these random events would cause a hardware disconnect, but if it was a driver update that interfered with the USB controllers (I'm assuming your external is connected through USB) it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

 

A voltage drop is the least likely culprit, if you had V drop severe enough to throw the USB hubs you probably would've gotten a BSOD along with it. The only time I've had USB devices randomly disconnect is from bad drivers and bad devices, maybe a MOBO or two just being a total POS, but I haven't had one of those in a long time.

 

*edit* may be worth examining all your USB connections on both the MOBO hubs and devices themselves. Blast of canned air, checking for bent pins, etc.

[_Grid21]

So I did some research. The power supply is not all that great. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/24/ultra_x4_850w_1050w_power_supplies_review/5#.VWulFPn5FhE

I had suspected that it was the power supply causing issues, but I didn't want to make any definitive claims.

I'm wondering that too. I wish I could test it some how. What the voltage is I mean.

 

It's the best answer you're likely to receive without monitoring all processes on your computer and then replicating the problem.

 

"Fluke" would fall into the category of a random process starting/stopping/halting that caused your problem. Windows Updates, Adobe updates, etc. are all examples of things that can randomly occur and throw a wrench into your normal operating procedure. Not many of these random events would cause a hardware disconnect, but if it was a driver update that interfered with the USB controllers (I'm assuming your external is connected through USB) it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

 

A voltage drop is the least likely culprit, if you had V drop severe enough to throw the USB hubs you probably would've gotten a BSOD along with it. The only time I've had USB devices randomly disconnect is from bad drivers and bad devices, maybe a MOBO or two just being a total POS, but I haven't had one of those in a long time.

 

*edit* may be worth examining all your USB connections on both the MOBO hubs and devices themselves. Blast of canned air, checking for bent pins, etc.

 

This disconnecting of the hard drives is a rare issue. I still think it was a voltage drop because there was no driver update or anything else going on at the time of this event. There is no other reason for a 4790 to slow down that dramatically to the point of near lock up. I could still hear my friend, but my system seriously locked up and task manager wasn't showing anything extremely going on.

[runit3]

I'm wondering that too. I wish I could test it some how. What the voltage is I mean.

Use HWMonitor, it registers min, max, and current voltage levels for nearly every component.

 

This disconnecting of the hard drives is a rare issue. I still think it was a voltage drop because there was no driver update or anything else going on at the time of this event. There is no other reason for a 4790 to slow down that dramatically to the point of near lock up. I could still hear my friend, but my system seriously locked up and task manager wasn't showing anything extremely going on.

Those symptoms sound like a single, or multiple, background processes/services at various levels of failure. If your external drive had just disconnected, or was being interpreted as being plugged/unplugged constantly it would throw Windows into a shitfit if the OS was reading resources off of the external, or if it was actively writing to the external (saving video for example).

 

Voltage drops do not make your computer feel like it's wading through mud, it simply shuts off. There may be a voltage drop on the USB hubs, which would explain the external disappearing, but that shouldn't make the OS run any slower unless it was heavily utilizing resources from the external.

 

Is the external you're using powered through USB? or is it powered from the wall?

[Godlygamer23]

Use HWMonitor, it registers min, max, and current voltage levels for nearly every component.

You're better off using a multimeter. The numbers shown in the sections are the program's interpretations, and may be incorrect. However, a multimeter would tap directly into the power supply.

[_Grid21]

Use HWMonitor, it registers min, max, and current voltage levels for nearly every component.

 

Those symptoms sound like a single, or multiple, background processes/services at various levels of failure. If your external drive had just disconnected, or was being interpreted as being plugged/unplugged constantly it would throw Windows into a shitfit if the OS was reading resources off of the external, or if it was actively writing to the external (saving video for example).

 

Voltage drops do not make your computer feel like it's wading through mud, it simply shuts off. There may be a voltage drop on the USB hubs, which would explain the external disappearing, but that shouldn't make the OS run any slower unless it was heavily utilizing resources from the external.

 

Is the external you're using powered through USB? or is it powered from the wall?

It's a powered hard drive from the wall, and the data cable is USB. 

[_Grid21]

You're better off using a multimeter. The numbers shown in the sections are the program's interpretations, and may be incorrect. However, a multimeter would tap directly into the power supply.

How do I tap into it safely if I don't know where to put the probes? 

[Godlygamer23]

How do I tap into it safely if I don't know where to put the probes? 

Never used a multimeter before, so I cannot answer that question.

[_Grid21]

Can anyone else suggest any reason why this issue happened with my system?

[blackadder]

How do I tap into it safely if I don't know where to put the probes?

this involves you to de solder most the time to check it, i don't recommend it. If testing the psu you really want a oscilloscope and something to put load on it, normally you would splice your way into the circuit. I don't recommend doing any of this unless you have the tools and know how. I agree i don't think its a bad psu. Im not sure what though.

[_Grid21]

this involves you to de solder most the time to check it, i don't recommend it. If testing the psu you really want a oscilloscope and something to put load on it, normally you would splice your way into the circuit. I don't recommend doing any of this unless you have the tools and know how. I agree i don't think its a bad psu. Im not sure what though.

That's something I don't want to do. Sounds dangerous. Can my UEFI Bios make a log for me to read?

[blackadder]

That's something I don't want to do. Sounds dangerous. Can my UEFI Bios make a log for me to read?

i honestly don't know. This stuff is happening super fast, sometimes it takes a really nice scope like 5000 usd or more to pick up on problems that happen infrequent. It's cool stuff though. I wouldn't trust bios in that way. Easiest way would be to use a friends psu and test. You can also use occt i believe it has a psu load tester, it will atleast put a high load on the system and if it crashes it might be psu but, still up in the air. Ultra x i have never heard of, i think, who makes it? Can you find a review from Johnny guru or somewhere. If it happens alot i would worry if not, drive on.

[_Grid21]

i honestly don't know. This stuff is happening super fast, sometimes it takes a really nice scope like 5000 usd or more to pick up on problems that happen infrequent. It's cool stuff though. I wouldn't trust bios in that way. Easiest way would be to use a friends psu and test. You can also use occt i believe it has a psu load tester, it will atleast put a high load on the system and if it crashes it might be psu but, still up in the air.

This sadly doesn't bring me closer to my need to know what happened.

[blackadder]

This sadly doesn't bring me closer to my need to know what happened.

i know but it could be heaps of things, Antivirus kicks on makes 100%cpu usage really anything that wanted to use the cpu at the time.

[_Grid21]

i know but it could be heaps of things, Antivirus kicks on makes 100%cpu usage really anything that wanted to use the cpu at the time.

I checked task manager during the event, and nothing was at 100% at the time. More about 67% to 78%. Give or take.

[blackadder]

I checked task manager during the event, and nothing was at 100% at the time. More about 67% to 78%. Give or take.

ah, has it happened again? Hard drive disconnecting is strange maybe bad sector or hiccup from the hdd.

[_Grid21]

ah, has it happened again? Hard drive disconnecting is strange maybe bad sector or hiccup from the hdd.

It hasn't as I haven't streamed since last night. I'll look out for it next time. Even hard drives that I know are perfectly fine have disconnected on their own.

[sgloux3470]

I'm wondering that too. I wish I could test it some how. What the voltage is I mean.

 

 

This disconnecting of the hard drives is a rare issue. I still think it was a voltage drop because there was no driver update or anything else going on at the time of this event. There is no other reason for a 4790 to slow down that dramatically to the point of near lock up. I could still hear my friend, but my system seriously locked up and task manager wasn't showing anything extremely going on.

Tbh I had something very similar happen with my sisters 4670.

 

For whatever reason the system chugged for a solid 30-60 seconds and it never happened again.

 

The rule of bug hunting is until you can recreate it, it never happened. 

[_Grid21]

Tbh I had something very similar happen with my sisters 4670.

 

For whatever reason the system chugged for a solid 30-60 seconds and it never happened again.

 

The rule of bug hunting is until you can recreate it, it never happened. 

Funny, but I'm more into finding out why it happened. I still blame the PSU.

[runit3]

You're better off using a multimeter. The numbers shown in the sections are the program's interpretations, and may be incorrect. However, a multimeter would tap directly into the power supply.

I'm following the presumption that there is no voltage drop. If there was a drop severe enough to disconnect the USB hubs logic would dictate that he would have a fairly high variance in voltage for all of the motherboard readouts. The USB hubs should be operating off the +5V rail, all he would need to look at is the +5V readout. If it's feathering around that value and suddenly gets a drop to lower than 4.6V, there's the problem. AFAIK there isn't a MOBO with multimeter leads specifically for USB hubs, although they certainly exist for other components. Trying to test the PSU in this scenario is impractical, only one component failed, it would be an extremely odd occurrence for a PSU to semi-selectively drop voltage supply for USB hubs, especially since the PSU isn't supplying power to the external drives. If it was the PSU the title of the thread would likely be, "My computer shut off randomly".

 

It's a powered hard drive from the wall, and the data cable is USB. 

Your PSU isn't directly supplying power to the drives. One of three things happened. One, the OS dropped the service associated with the drivers for the USB hubs for at least one of the controllers (the hub your external was connected to), two, your PSU somehow managed to drop the voltage only to the board components associated with the USB hubs temporarily, or three, the external drives failed in some way.

 

All of the scenarios can lock up your OS briefly, my guess is that it was trying to access or write data on the external. You can test this theory by doing a fairly large copy of a file or files, then unplugging the USB mid-copy. Watch Windows chug a bit trying to figure out what happened. While this is an over simplification, it highlights the basic premise. If you were playing a game off your external and it unplugged, the corresponding halt would be much more severe. Whatever the OS was accessing off the drive, it was likely a critical service for something that was running on your computer at the time of the disconnect, which caused your slow down.

 

You can try to replicate the problem by having everything running as before, then manually unplugging your external. If you get the same exact slow down of the system you've found at least one of the causes -your OS is accessing external drive information critical for one of the programs that is running. It still won't explain the USB hub losing connection, but at least it's a pretty easy starting point for troubleshooting.