do i need to do push/pull for 60mm Rad?

[Tithonius]

Just kinda more curious more then anything. At what point does it become necessary to use a push/pull fan config for a radiator? is it after its gets to 60mm think? or will just push or just pull work? I will be using corsair SP fans, so will i need to do push/pull for a 60mm radiator?

[SageC]

What's the fin density?

[Oshino Shinobu]

What FPI is it? That has more to do with the airflow resistance than the thickness really. 

 

It's never necessary to have push pull, but there are times where the benefit of it increases due to higher air resistance due to high FPI. 

[W-L]

Just kinda more curious more then anything. At what point does it become necessary to use a push/pull fan config for a radiator? is it after its gets to 60mm think? or will just push or just pull work? I will be using corsair SP fans, so will i need to do push/pull for a 60mm radiator?

 

For 60mm thick rads the FPI are usually pretty low so using a single fan in push or pull will be effective and work well but having both push pull in a 60mm config is more beneficial if your are trying to get maximum peforamnce.

[jprig6]

You probably have already seen this but check this out if you need help. 

[MrYuriy]

Neither of those options are why you should use a push/pull config. Worrying about keeping the radiator 2 degrees colder comes 2nd to balanced airflow as the main goal. Such a configuration should only be used depending on the flow of your case. The entire goal of fans, as they have been for 30 years, before radiators n such, is to suck cold air in, blow hot air out. I'm not saying that because you don't know that, I am only saying that because, ultimately, you should answer this question yourself and not take others "opinions". Judge the airflow in the case yourself. Most of the time, the push and/or pull fan(s) on top actually impede airflow; therefore, lessen the performance. But if you need to cool the radiator more, while having balanced airflow in the case, so long as the config doesn't block it - then go for it.

 

Now, if you want to draw us a chart/picture or even just detail your case, fans, and placement, we could help you more accurately. I'll let you know right away whether the push/pull would help or harm.

 

Anyways, hope that helped.

[Tithonius]

What's the fin density?

 

What FPI is it? That has more to do with the airflow resistance than the thickness really. 

 

It's never necessary to have push pull, but there are times where the benefit of it increases due to higher air resistance due to high FPI. 

 

For right now i was looking at the Alphacool UT60: http://goo.gl/DM1QgSas my radiator of choice. If you have recommendations for better 480 rads im open to that too, i just heard that they are amazing rads.

[Tithonius]

Neither of those options are why you should use a push/pull config. Worrying about keeping the radiator 2 degrees colder comes 2nd to balanced airflow as the main goal. Such a configuration should only be used depending on the flow of your case. The entire goal of fans, as they have been for 30 years, before radiators n such, is to suck cold air in, blow hot air out. I'm not saying that because you don't know that, I am only saying that because, ultimately, you should answer this question yourself and not take others "opinions". Judge the airflow in the case yourself. Most of the time, the push and/or pull fan(s) on top actually impede airflow; therefore, lessen the performance. But if you need to cool the radiator more, while having balanced airflow in the case, so long as the config doesn't block it - then go for it.

 

Now, if you want to draw us a chart/picture or even just detail your case, fans, and placement, we could help you more accurately. I'll let you know right away whether the push/pull would help or harm.

 

Anyways, hope that helped.

 

yeah not a problem. the case and config as it stands right now looks like this: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Vy9gxr

 

a picture of how i want to do my loop is here:  

[MrYuriy]

yeah not a problem. the case and config as it stands right now looks like this: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Vy9gxr

 

a picture of how i want to do my loop is here:  ST10 Custom Watercooling Loop.jpg

 

As I see it, no rear fan right? Just making sure. You have an arrow pointing into the case, just wondering why.

[W-L]

For right now i was looking at the Alphacool UT60: http://goo.gl/DM1QgSas my radiator of choice. If you have recommendations for better 480 rads im open to that too, i just heard that they are amazing rads.

 

For the UT60 it has a very shallow fin array so airflow through it is pretty easy, so you can run it fairly effectively with just push or pull.

 

I personally have this radiator but I did install both push pull on it to give it a little boost in also aiding my airflow into the case.

[Tithonius]

I will be cooling the RAM as well, which is what the green block is. I want to do quad intake fans in the front, and one in the back, with a single 480mm radiator in the top. How big of a radiator should i use? what thickness? is 45mm thick enough, or should i go with 60mm? I know there isnt much to cool, but i want to be able to add more GPUs later.

[Oshino Shinobu]

For right now i was looking at the Alphacool UT60: http://goo.gl/DM1QgSas my radiator of choice. If you have recommendations for better 480 rads im open to that too, i just heard that they are amazing rads.

That one is only around 10FPI, so you'll be fine with just pull or push. 

[Tithonius]

As I see it, no rear fan right? Just making sure. You have an arrow pointing into the case, just wondering why.

 

sorry there is a rear fan, my bad

[MrYuriy]

sorry there is a rear fan, my bad

 

Ok, so of course have rear fan in push (blowing hot air out) and no, absa-freaking-lutely do not do push/pull here. This is a perfect setup for this config:

 

3 Front: Pull (air intake)

3 Top: Push (air exhaust)

 

(see the pattern there? a lot of times, balanced math = balanced flow as it is here)

 

And then put the Rear in Push (exhausting).

 

That radiator will be an ice cube with 3 fans blowing cold air in from the front cooling the radiator, and the 3 on top keeping it chilly sucking out any heat, with the rear one finishing the job not allowing heat from the PSU to get in the way, for example. Boom!

[Tithonius]

Ok, so of course have rear fan in push (blowing hot air out) and no, absa-freaking-lutely do not do push/pull here. This is a perfect setup for this config:

 

3 Front: Pull (air intake)

3 Top: Push (air exhaust)

 

(see the pattern there? a lot of times, balanced math = balanced flow as it is here)

 

And then put the Rear in Push (exhausting).

 

That radiator will be an ice cube with 3 fans blowing cold air in from the front cooling the radiator, and the 3 on top keeping it chilly sucking out any heat, with the rear one finishing the job not allowing heat from the PSU to get in the way, for example. Boom!

 

ok so your saying that everything looks good except i should change the rear fan to exhaust. tht sounds good

 

just one more question tho, do you think ill need a 60mm thick radiator? or do you think that a 45mm thick rad will be enough? I want to be able to add another GPU down the road.

[MrYuriy]

ok so your saying that everything looks good except i should change the rear fan to exhaust. tht sounds good

 

just one more question tho, do you think ill need a 60mm thick radiator? or do you think that a 45mm thick rad will be enough? I want to be able to add another GPU down the road.

 

In that case, with those components, to be honest you could go either way. What I am gonna add, however, is although it will cool you down just a tad, it may just not be worth it to go 60mm. So, personally, if I was asking this question myself - I would stay 45mm, you have a great flow, everything seems fine & dandy as it is.

[Tithonius]

In that case, with those components, to be honest you could go either way. What I am gonna add, however, is although it will cool you down just a tad, it may just not be worth it to go 60mm. So, personally, if I was asking this question myself - I would stay 45mm, you have a great flow, everything seems fine & dandy as it is.

 

perfect, thanks so much for the help, its been such a long road getting this build all planned out and this is like the 3rd time ive completely had to change a ton of stuff. Hopefully ive got everything in order now tho, im super excited to be able to make this build happen, and im even more excited to start the long process of saving the money i need to build it

[VSG]

Let's clear up this small misconception here. Fin density by itself isn't everything that contributes to airflow restriction of a radiator. The fin thickness, number of tube channels, tube channel thickness and core thickness (as opposed to entire radiator thickness) are all important too. For example, the Alphacool UT60 has a fin density of 9-10 FPI whereas the HWLabs Nemesis GTX has 16 FPI. But the latter ends up with more airflow through it because of the thinner fins, thinner tubes and thinner core and is also why it excels with low speed fans also.

As far as the OP goes, any rad will work with a single set of fans. But it may not be optimized for the fans chosen. For example, the UT60 does very well with a single set of mid-high RPM average static pressure optimized fans (1200+ RPM) so if you (OP) are ok with this then go for it. A 45mm thick rad (XT45 I assume) has the same number of tubes, thickness of fins and tubes but different core thickness and fin density. It ends up being slightly better than the UT60 in terms of airflow restriction but not enough to make a big difference. In fact these two perform very similarly except that the XT45 doesn't scale as well with airflow.

[Tithonius]

Let's clear up this small misconception here. Fin density by itself isn't everything that contributes to airflow restriction of a radiator. The fin thickness, number of tube channels, tube channel thickness and core thickness (as opposed to entire radiator thickness) are all important too. For example, the Alphacool UT60 has a fin density of 9-10 FPI whereas the HWLabs Nemesis GTX has 16 FPI. But the latter ends up with more airflow through it because of the thinner fins, thinner tubes and thinner core and is also why it excels with low speed fans also.

As far as the OP goes, any rad will work with a single set of fans. But it may not be optimized for the fans chosen. For example, the UT60 does very well with a single set of mid-high RPM average static pressure optimized fans (1200+ RPM) so if you (OP) are ok with this then go for it. A 45mm thick rad (XT45 I assume) has the same number of tubes, thickness of fins and tubes but different core thickness and fin density. It ends up being slightly better than the UT60 in terms of airflow restriction but not enough to make a big difference. In fact these two perform very similarly except that the XT45 doesn't scale as well with airflow.

 

so what your saying is that they are about the same between the two, and i should get whatever i feel comfortable with. So i think ill go with a 45mm radiator, i dont like the look of huge thick rads.