Research Rig

[Dash Lambda]

So I'll start this off by saying: I'm already a bit of a veteran when it comes to building PC rigs. I've made several of my own, I've made other people's, I've helped other people make theirs, blah-blah-blah. I know all the little things, I understand the hardware, so you don't need to explain the very basics.

 

The reason I'm making a post on this forum, which is out of character for me anyway, is because I've built gaming rigs. This is completely new ground for me, different purpose, different type of hardware, different requirements.

So, I got into computer science and I'm starting projects that need a little bit more than my desktop. Or at least a little bit different. Right now, the very first thing on my mind and only one of the things that I know I'll use it for, is calculating optimal solutions to permutation groups with brute force. I'm not an idiot, I know that the best personal supercomputer an unlimited budget can buy is still going to suck at that, that's the point. I can't use my desktop because, one, it's my desktop, and two, it's a gaming rig, which is a completely different type of powerful.

 

So I'm going to use this rig for massive computing at heavy loads over long periods of time, I'm going to be using it for simulations, and any experiment or test I need.

 

I know all the hardware that's out there, I know what's special and not so special about workstation cards and gaming cards, I understand the specs and performance and even the circuitry. What I'm clueless about is brand, series, price, so-on.

So after looking at budget AMD cards, Nvidia gaming and Quadro cards, Intel Xeon and AMD Vishera CPUs, Intel gaming processors, desktop and server motherboards, server cases, desktop cases, tech stations, I'm a bit overwhelmed.

So here's where I stop rambling and start asking questions:

 

Budget: I've decided on an approximate $5,000 base to $10,000 ceiling budget with a little leeway depending on the parts.

I'm a little open for this. I plan on building it over time, I don't have a stack of money sitting here labeled "PC Parts", and since I don't, you can probably guess what I mean when I say reasonable. Part of the reason I can't tell you what exactly I mean by "reasonable" is because I don't actually have a good grasp of what a lot of the more professional components are actually worth, but if you can help me then that necessitates that you DO have a grasp, so just use your best judgement.

 

Case:

I've been considering heavily the DimasTech Easy V3.0 tech station for this, but I'm not sure.

I know I want a large open air bench because I prefer horizontal motherboards, I plan on fiddling with it a lot, I'm going to want it open for maintenance, I want to have a lot of room for everything, I'm going to implement water cooling for that extra security/stability/longevity (Especially the cards), and I'm going to want a very versatile chassis for anything I want to do with it for any particular project. So, test bench.

Problem is, I don't know which one. The one I mentioned above looks great, but I'm not sure if there's anything better. It has to be sturdy, open, and versatile. Must be metal, not plastic or wood.

Last thing is, while this machine is a tool more than anything, I still can't have it be ugly. Something that looks nice, like the DimasTech bench. If that's the one you'd recommend then yay me, if not than which one and why?

Motherboard:

This one is really up in the air. I want it to be big and have plenty of slots and ports and features, but I can't get away from looking at them from the perspective of a gaming rig. This also kind of ties in with the processor as well, as I can't decide between desktop, workstation, and server. I can see the benefit of multiple CPUs for a lot of possible uses, but then I can see why it would be a hassle for others and the boards don't seem very diverse, appealing, or even very open. Workstations are a bit in the middle I know, so if you have a recommendation tell me, and as for desktops... Single CPU, more limited RAM, and a far more consumer-oriented selection, not so much tools as they are toys, except for a select few. Knowing my purpose and that my budget has a limit, what would you recommend?

Power Supply:

Again, I build gaming and enthusiast rigs. I immediately think, since I like Corsair, "AX1500i". Then again, I know there are far less attractive looking, yet far more powerful, stable, reliable, and versatile PSUs out there for more business-oriented applications. I just don't know them. Any ideas?

CPU:

I'm having trouble balancing AMD/Intel and desktop/workstation. Intel chips are inherently more powerful and they've got the Xeon line of workstation cores, which I'm not sure if I should go for or not over the high end desktop CPUs that will perform better to a degree but don't have a lot of the bells and whistles that the Xeons have, and vice versa. AMD chips I know are cheaper and have little quirks, like their funky 8-core processors that are actually more like 8/2+4/2 core processors, but they have near magical overclocking capabilities that can make them very useful for certain things. I've got an idea here, but I'm still having trouble reading the balance. There are three trays- AMD, Intel desktop, and Intel Xeon, and I can't figure out which one's heavier.

RAM:

This one is going to be easier. Things I know will apply heavily to this rig: Reliability trumps, more=better, speed counts too.

I just don't know what would be best though. I know I don't need gaming RAM, it's a little different, but I do need something that I can't quite define. Whatever you think is best, I'm sure I'll think so as well.

GPU:

Among the most important in this rig, as I'll be running big calculations, and generally a lot of them. I've got a good hold on the gaming card hierarchy, but workstation cards confuse me. I know what's different, I just don't know which one to get, I know know if the price is worth it, I don't know a lot about the different models and series. Most of this is I just don't have experience with the cards, so I just don't know where to start. I know that big points about workstation cards are reliability and precision, but I can't decide whether to get workstation cards for those point or to get cheaper gaming cards with vsatly similar hardware and tinker around with them a bit to get a lot of the same features working on them for less money.

I know I'm going to have a multi-GPU system, I'll probably want Nvidia since their cards are just stomping on AMD's in terms of performance right now, and I'm going to put water blocks on them.

 

Drives:

I'm probably going to go for WD enterprise drives. They seems to be a standard. I'll most likely have a couple SSDs, which would most likely be Intel but if you have any advice~

The SSDs are in there mostly because I like keeping system separate from storage and because, while it is necessarily going to be a desktop machine where I'll need an operating system to be snappy or whatnot, SSDs can speed up processes a lot of the time, so... Yeah.

Basically, if you think I should do anything different, I'd appreciate the info.

Cooling:

I have good experience with Corsair's closed loops, depending on radiator mounting I'll choose from their selection.

I'm going to do a custom loop for the GPUs, so recommendations for parts general tips would be helpful.
 

So Basically...

I have a very vague laundry list and I need a bit of guidance, since I've never built anything like this before. I feel silly saying "I'm building a machine for computer science research", and asking people the most basic questions about what parts I should use.

I'm hoping for this to be very powerful and capable of consistent operation, very open and versatile, very serviceable, very expandable, and I'm hoping I can make such a machine look nice.

Oh, and not make my wallet cheat on me.

 

This is going to be an accumulating build, and it's going to be a first for me. Any input is helpful. Unless it's not really related to hardware recommendations, tips, or whatnot, then it really isn't.

 

I'll read over this later and most likely edit the bajeezus out of it, because it's 3 in the morning and my mind is betraying me. Any ambiguity, paragraph-long typo, or stupid stupid stupid sentence will most likely be ironed out. That is, if I can edit posts after I post them on here... ... Of course I can, it's a forum. I'm tired.

Thank you so much if you managed to read through this mess, and thank you even more if you have good information for me.

I'm tired.

[Carnoustie14]

where do you live??

 

Vague budget guide e.g. $1000 - $2000

 

any problems with a massive case??

 

Ang gaming??

[Carnoustie14]

I know absolutley F**K all about workstation GPU's, so take the Graphics choice with a grain of salt!!

i have no idea what budget you were looking for so i took a guess at $5000 - $6000 (probably completely wrong)

 

here goes (lol)

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rdQQxr

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rdQQxr/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5960X 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($1004.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 280L 122.5 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($119.99 @ Amazon) 

Motherboard: Asus RAMPAGE V EXTREME EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($457.79 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($554.30 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($204.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($204.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($248.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Video Card: HP Quadro K5000 4GB Video Card  ($1945.91 @ Newegg) 

Case: Corsair 900D ATX Full Tower Case  ($334.99 @ NCIX US) 

Power Supply: Corsair AX1500i 1500W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($399.99 @ Amazon) 

Total: $5476.93

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-17 03:25 EST-0500

[manikyath]

if it needs to run for a LONG ass time, as in several months without downtime, i'd suggest getting something fully closed, with ALL the fan filters, positive air pressure and overkill cooling.

 

my personal server has negative air pressure, no fan filters, and a stock intel cooler. its down once or twice a month to get the dust out the cooling to make it run quiet again.

 

i'd also suggest digging into the specifics of preferred hardware for the software you're planning on using (like, the need for quadro cards, or gefore being fine, etc etc)

 

post #3 seems to have a reasonable build, aside from a tad more ram seeming decent, and i'm not sure about putting a WD black in a professional rig.

[Azwok]

Having researched with workstation GPUs (Teslas), and I'm in the process of building my own GPU research (titan) desktop PC, I have a few views from my experiences which I hope are helpful. I don't know much about the computational task involved in finding optimal solutions to permutation groups, but understanding how the calculations are performed should provide vital information for the design of the machine. As you mentioned the GPU side, I assume you are doing GPU computations not just a display out, so the next step is how does the task use the GPU. On a simple overview, if you are doing long calculations that rely on the previous answer, ECC (Error Correction Code in the memory) could be important. If you need to store loads of data on the GPU then the larger memory would be good too, do you need single or double precision (SP/DP).

 

Tesla: Has ECC, good with SP and DP

Titan: Good DP and SP, no ECC

Quadro: I don't know too much about these, from memory they are very fast with good SP, DP a little lacking other than the latest model, but they cost a lot more!

GTX: Very fast, good SP, not so gerat DP, no ECC

 

Simple summary:

If you need ECC, Tesla is pretty much your only choice, need DP (no ECC) Tesla and Titan, only need fast SP (no ECC) and no need to loads of memory GTXs would be good.

 

The amount of memory on GPUs has grown so much these last few years, the top GTX cards have the same sort of space as a 3 years old Tesla, so in many cases I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue.

 

This is just my view on the range of cards as I am by no means an expert on this, I'd be intrigued to hear what you chose in the end.

 

I hope some of this helps.

[Dash Lambda]

So I'm thinking a desktop processor is going to be the best choice for this, but it's tough between the cheaper/more practical 5960X or the more expensive Xeon processors with ECC...

Dust isn't actually something I'd given much thought, though I don't think that'll be much of a problem since I'm obsessive over my machines. Still something to consider though... Thanks for the tip.

The calculations for permutation groups are mostly integer, but I have other projects in mind that'll probably use DP, not to mention I plan on having this as an open resource/tool more than a one horse pony, and ECC will probably come in handy, so I'll have to give the Tesla cards a look...

As for the first guy with the PartPicker list, that seems like a good approximate budget for a single card, I'm thinking a good ceiling to set would be $10,000. The parts seem to be fairly well aligned with what I'm going for, minus storage, RAM, and case.

The RAM is kind of up in the air for me now though, because it's weighing in on the CPU. If I do desktop, I think I'm going to do a 5960X with Corsair DDR4 memory (64gb), but I don't know any good brands or lines of ECC memory and I don't know what more I'd get out of a Xeon... Hm..?

I didn't expect helpful people so quickly~:3
I'll look into Tesla cards tomorrow, probably look up some more information on Xeon processors as well. You guys got any idea about Xeon or the RAM, or maybe more specific information about GPUs?

Thanks so much, I'm gonna shut my laptop and fall over for the night~

[manikyath]

forgot to mention: welcome to the forum.

 

a xeon mostly gets you extra reliability (xeons are built to be more reliable than lets say, a desktop I7 k part) the higher end ones also get you more cores, extra cache etc etc...

 

i personally dont know much about ECC memory, so i'm not gonna dig into that.

 

as for graphics cards: you have the coice between:

- gaming cards (nVidia GeForce etc) which are cheaper, but lack advanced features.

- professional cards (Quadro) which are more expensive, offer similar performance to geforce cards, with the added bonus of reliability (again) and advanced features.

- compute cards (tesla) which basicly just crunch numbers all day long, and are built to do so.

 

PS: i personally havent dug far enough into professional cards to know much about these "advanced features" i just know they exist, and are appareantly a really big selling point.

[Dash Lambda]

Looks like my interests will be between GeForce cards or Tesla, probably Tesla.

I still need to research it more though.

 

I feel welcomed :3

[Dash Lambda]

So it looks like I'll be going with a server processor after all, looks like those little things are a bit more important than I thought~

 

And it also looks like I'll be going with a Tesla card, it's pretty much designed for my purpose...

I'm narrowing down the bench to a choice between the Dimastech stations, the Caselabs S8 tech station, or a CM HAF XB EVO (Which has the advantage of side panels when I don't need access).

 

My only questions left concern the RAM and MB. I have a feeling a gaming and overclocking oriented MB is a terrible choice for this, so anyone got any recommendations for a good board? Looks like it's going to take me a while to get the money, so it wouldn't change much to have dual CPU in terms of feasibility, so I'd like suggestions for either single or dual socket, whichever you guys can think of.

 

As for the RAM, I just don't know what kit will be good. I'm going for high capacity (really high), reliable, ECC RAM. I'm lost when I look through the brands .-.