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Picking a processor

waggythegeek
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In the first build, I went from Haswell Refresh CPU and motherboard to Haswell. This is an mATX motherboard, but it is still compatible with everything, and has 4 DIMMs.  The difference is only 100Mhz between the two CPUs, and you are spending a lot less because you don't need a Haswell Refresh motherboard.  Because of these savings, I added in a 120GB SSD.

 

For the second build, I kept the Haswell Refresh CPU, but I changed the motherboard from H97 to Z97.  It makes no sense to go with that H97 motherboard when a Z97 motherboard is the same price, and lends itself to future unlocked processor upgrades. There is no SSD in the 2nd build, but I strongly recommend buying an SSD no matter the build you go with.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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He wants you to get a more expensive motherboard with features that you won't currently use, but could potentially use in the future. Personally I wouldn't do it, because it doesn't actually do anything. It only has the potential to do more if you make a very expensive CPU upgrade almost immediately, which I think is incredibly unlikely.

 

As far as the SSD, I personally think they're a luxury item. They don't actually improve the performance of anything but reading and writing files to disk. This means your computer will boot faster because it can read the files on your storage drive faster, but it won't help your CPU multitask, and it won't improve in-game FPS. Basically, it'll turn a 30 second boot down to 10, and a 5 second load time when you start a program down to 2, but other than that it doesn't do anything. No real improvement in benchmarks. It sure makes your computer feel snappier since things load SO much more quickly, but it's far from actually being a worthwhile investment in saving you time. I'd only do it if you're super weird and impatient on trying to get things to load immediately.

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Sorry lotus, I'm with faceman on the ssd. I get that it's luxury, and makes me look kinda snooty, but i love me a speedy boot. I might need to get an ssd... :)

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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He wants you to get a more expensive motherboard with features that you won't currently use, but could potentially use in the future. Personally I wouldn't do it, because it doesn't actually do anything. It only has the potential to do more if you make a very expensive CPU upgrade almost immediately, which I think is incredibly unlikely.

 

As far as the SSD, I personally think they're a luxury item. They don't actually improve the performance of anything but reading and writing files to disk. This means your computer will boot faster because it can read the files on your storage drive faster, but it won't help your CPU multitask, and it won't improve in-game FPS. Basically, it'll turn a 30 second boot down to 10, and a 5 second load time when you start a program down to 2, but other than that it doesn't do anything. No real improvement in benchmarks. It sure makes your computer feel snappier since things load SO much more quickly, but it's far from actually being a worthwhile investment in saving you time. I'd only do it if you're super weird and impatient on trying to get things to load immediately.

Woah woah woah, get your facts straight. 

 

You recommended an expensive H97 motherboard which costs $83.  I recommended a Z97 motherboard which costs $85.  Its hardly "more expensive".  It is also much better suited for that future upgrade should he ever need to upgrade to an unlocked i7, which is a possibility for anyone.  Better to spend the extra $2 now, than have to spend another $85 later if you ever want to overclock.  Having the option to overclock, even if not done at once, is an excellent freedom.  An overclock can extend the useful life of a processor.  Take the i5-2500k for example, this processor is 4 years old and still kicks butt because it can be overclocked.

 

An SSD is a luxury item that doesn't improve performance?  You are jaded.  Nothing, and I mean nothing will give you a "new computer, money well spent" feeling like an SSD.  It is almost a necessity when building a computer in *2015*.  The boot and shut down times are blazing fast compared to an HDD, and everything is MUCH snappier because it is being loaded so fast. 

 

To consider an SSD a luxury item is really crazy.  I couldn't possibly imagine going to life without an SSD after using one, and you will be hard pressed to find anyone else consider it a luxury item except in the most budget of builds.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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Not sure I like the 4440 though. Is there a nice compromise in the same price range? 4460 and ssd?

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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I'm sorry, you are correct about the motherboard. $2 is fine. I don't see a need, but there's no harm.

Edit: oh, you're relying on a rebate to get it that cheap. It's normally a $100 board. I tried to avoid rebates, but if you're willing it's still fine.

 

However I completely stand by my SSD argument. They don't actually DO anything. As I said, it feels snappier, but that's all. I have both, and I've never felt the need to put an SSD into my main gaming rig even though I have one in a laptop.

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Not sure I like the 4440 though. Is there a nice compromise in the same price range? 4460 and ssd?

i5-4440 is the same as the i5-4460 just 3.1Ghz compared to 3.2Ghz.  Its not worth paying extra to get that measly 100Mhz.

 

If you want a faster i5, you could go with an i5-4570

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/j7HhdC

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/j7HhdC/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($184.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($53.98 @ OutletPC)

Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($60.98 @ Newegg)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($50.99 @ NCIX US)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card  ($234.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($34.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $744.90

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 00:22 EST-0500

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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I'm sorry, you are correct about the motherboard. $2 is fine. I don't see a need, but there's no harm.

Edit: oh, you're relying on a rebate to get it that cheap. It's normally a $100 board. I tried to avoid rebates, but if you're willing it's still fine.

 

However I completely stand by my SSD argument. They don't actually DO anything. As I said, it feels snappier, but that's all. I have both, and I've never felt the need to put an SSD into my main gaming rig even though I have one in a laptop.

What are you talking about?  Your original build has 3 MIRs in it.

 

You're in the minority on the SSD thing.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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@waggythegeek

 

Here is a haswell refresh build with Z97 for future upgrades and an SSD.

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GFMZjX
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GFMZjX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($60.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($50.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card  ($234.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($34.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $769.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 00:24 EST-0500

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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Is 100mhz a small number? I'm a complete noob. This is actually gonna be my first build. If so, then I might be persuaded back to the 4440... And an ssd... *announcer voice* and it looks like faceman is gaining the upper hand, building nicely on lotuses original design...

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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What are you talking about?  Your original build has 3 MIRs in it.

 

You're in the minority on the SSD thing.

I forgot to tick off the checkbox. I always make a build for someone else in private browsing so I don't have to mess with what I'm currently doing on my own. If you noticed, it's only for the first pair, at least it should be. I didn't mean to do that.

 

I still stand by my opinion on the SSD. I care about price to performance, and an SSD does absolutely nothing performance-wise.

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Also, what is haswell/ haswell refresh?

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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Is 100mhz a small number? I'm a complete noob. This is actually gonna be my first build. If so, then I might be persuaded back to the 4440... And an ssd... *announcer voice* and it looks like faceman is gaining the upper hand, building nicely on lotuses original design...

Yea, its miniscule.  Its not worth the extra money for 100Mhz.  The only argument I could make for the other build is the flexibility to upgrade to an unlocked i7 if you ever desire.

 

I would choose between:

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GFMZjX

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....jX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.88 @ OutletPC)

Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($60.98 @ Newegg)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($50.99 @ NCIX US)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card  ($234.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($34.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $769.80

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 00:24 EST-0500

 

Or

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8LHhdC

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....dC/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($169.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($53.98 @ OutletPC)

Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($60.98 @ Newegg)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($50.99 @ NCIX US)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($234.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $729.90

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-18 23:56 EST-0500

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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And MIRs?

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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A lot of misleading advice being given to the OP, here.

The M5 A97 Evo R.2 is perfectly suited to the 8 core FX. I have an 8350 in it (which by the way, I advise you to get over the 8320), and I have it overclocked to 4.4Mhz, and its stable.

My board Temps only hang around the 20-23c mark, even under hard load.

I will say, though, that when I tried 4.5Mhz, it became unstable and froze, and I had to hard reset and scale the overclock back. The instability on 4.5, though, was likely only to do with me having the stock cooler on.

The board also looks nice, with metallic blue heatsinks and black PCB.

You wouldn't want to put the 9 Series FX's in there, and the other mentioned boards. But the 8 Series are safe. That's what these boards were built for.

Any board at £70 or above will be OK.

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A lot of misleading advice being given to the OP, here.

The M5 A97 Evo R.2 is perfectly suited to the 8 core FX. I have an 8350 in it (which by the way, I advise you to get over the 8320), and I have it overclocked to 4.4Mhz, and its stable.

My board Temps only hang around the 20-23c mark, even under hard load.

I will say, though, that when I tried 4.5Mhz, it became unstable and froze, and I had to hard reset and scale the overclock back. The instability on 4.5, though, was likely only to do with me having the stock cooler on.

The board also looks nice, with metallic blue heatsinks and black PCB.

You wouldn't want to put the 9 Series FX's in there, and the other mentioned boards. But the 8 Series are safe. That's what these boards were built for.

Any board at £70 or above will be OK.

you are also missleading because i5 destroys the fx in every game so op should not even consider it.

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12700, B660M Mortar DDR4, 32GB 3200C16 Viper Steel, 2TB SN570, EVGA Supernova G6 850W, be quiet! 500FX, EVGA 3070Ti FTW3 Ultra.

 

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I forgot to tick off the checkbox. I always make a build for someone else in private browsing so I don't have to mess with what I'm currently doing on my own. If you noticed, it's only for the first pair, at least it should be. I didn't mean to do that.

 

I still stand by my opinion on the SSD. I care about price to performance, and an SSD does absolutely nothing performance-wise.

04TORwP.png

 

This was your build you recommended, I got here by clicking the link you provided, nothing was private.  Don't say you are avoiding MIRs(mail-in-rebates) when your build has 3 of them in it.

 

@waggythegeek

 

MIR is a mail in rebate.  You have to fill out a form, and cut out the product's IPC and mail it into the manufacturer to get money back.  Its very common and easy.  Some people avoid them, others don't mind them.  I've been doing them for years, and have only have had a problem one time many years ago back before they had online MIR registration.

 

Haswell and Haswell refresh:  They are on the same socket(LGA1150) but they are not always compatible with one another without BIOS updates.  They are basically the same processor, the real difference is in the higher end Haswell Refresh chips, not these locked i5s.  The main thing you need to worry about is compatibility, and I cleared all of that up for you, both of the builds I recommended are 100% compatible without BIOS updates or anything funky.  Haswell Refresh, also referred to as Devil's Canyon.

 

@CDHoward

 

You are one of the lucky ones to not be having problems on that motherboard. Also, that temperature reading is not accurate, because there is no way your motherboard will be around ambient temps under that kind of load, especially with an overclock on an FX8.  Its a faulty sensor, which almost every AM3+ motherboard has. Any $70+ motherboard is a blanket statement that is not true.  You HAVE to have at least 6+2 VRM Phase design, but 8+2 is recommended.  That specific board is 6+2.

 

Aside from that, it is negligent to recommend an FX build to someone who has gaming in mind.  Intel beats FX processors in performance at any price point.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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you are also missleading because i5 destroys the fx in every game so op should not even consider it.

In games, yes. The I5 gives a more stable game FPS.

But the FX 8350 does well in games once you take the time to optimise it.

In video editing etc, the 8350 hammers the I5 in programmes that utilise all available cores. And may well be on a par with the I7 here.

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In games, yes. The I5 gives a more stable game FPS.

But the FX 8350 does well in games once you take the time to optimise it.

In video editing etc, the 8350 hammers the I5 in programmes that utilises multiple cores. And may well be on a par with the I7 here.

No matter how highly you overclock or optimize an FX processor, it will still fall behind a locked i5.  It will cost more money, in the short and long term, as well as bottleneck high end GPUs with no clear upgrade path.  An FX9 is not an upgrade.

 

Sure, an FX8 will beat an i5 in programs that utilize all those cores, but that is a really niche area, and its not like the i5 can't do those things, it does them just not as fast.  The gaming benefits of an i5 far outweigh the content creation benefits of an FX8 unless your sole purpose is for content creation.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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04TORwP.png

 

This was your build you recommended, I got here by clicking the link you provided, nothing was private.  Don't say you are avoiding MIRs(mail-in-rebates) when your build has 3 of them in it.

 

@waggythegeek

 

MIR is a mail in rebate.  You have to fill out a form, and cut out the product's IPC and mail it into the manufacturer to get money back.  Its very common and easy.  Some people avoid them, others don't mind them.  I've been doing them for years, and have only have had a problem one time many years ago back before they had online MIR registration.

 

Haswell and Haswell refresh:  They are on the same socket(LGA1150) but they are not always compatible with one another without BIOS updates.  They are basically the same processor, the real difference is in the higher end Haswell Refresh chips, not these locked i5s.  The main thing you need to worry about is compatibility, and I cleared all of that up for you, both of the builds I recommended are 100% compatible without BIOS updates or anything funky.  Haswell Refresh, also referred to as Devil's Canyon.

 

@CDHoward

 

You are one of the lucky ones to not be having problems on that motherboard. Also, that temperature reading is not accurate, because there is no way your motherboard will be around ambient temps under that kind of load, especially with an overclock on an FX8.  Its a faulty sensor, which almost every AM3+ motherboard has. Any $70+ motherboard is a blanket statement that is not true.  You HAVE to have at least 6+2 VRM Phase design, but 8+2 is recommended.  That specific board is 6+2.

 

Aside from that, it is negligent to recommend an FX build to someone who has gaming in mind.  Intel beats FX processors in performance at any price point.

I thought I was commenting on a different thread I've been reading, in which a bloke wants an AMD budget workstation. My field of view is small as I'm on desktop mode on my mobile.

Yes, you're right mate. For gaming, I5 is the best

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This was your build you recommended, I got here by clicking the link you provided, nothing was private.  Don't say you are avoiding MIRs(mail-in-rebates) when your build has 3 of them in it.

 

 

 

Look, I'm trying really hard to be cordial, but you're being extremely confrontational. When I make a build for someone, I start a new private window in my browser so I don't have to deal with any old cookies and I don't have to clear out old builds. I thought I was clear about that, but I guess not. I don't know why you're being so accusatory.

 

edit: also, that was the first build, the i5-4440 that included an h81 board. The second pair, the one with the H97 that we were comparing, did not include rebates. That was the relevant point, and I clearly went out of my way to avoid them, as I usually do. I just forgot to uncheck that box the first time.

 

2nd edit: and hey, I even said rebates were fine if you were okay with them. Seriously, what's the deal?

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I'm cool with the idea of mir's guys! Go ahead and put them in.

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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I'm cool with the idea of mir's guys! Go ahead and put them in.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GFMZjX

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....jX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.88 @ OutletPC)

Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($60.98 @ Newegg)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($50.99 @ NCIX US)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card  ($234.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($34.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $769.80

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 00:24 EST-0500

 

Or

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8LHhdC

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....dC/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($169.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($53.98 @ OutletPC)

Memory: Team Dark Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)

Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($60.98 @ Newegg)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($50.99 @ NCIX US)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($234.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $729.90

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-18 23:56 EST-0500

 

Both will perform identical.  The only difference of the 1st build is the possibility to upgrade to an unlocked processor in the future.  Or, if you're willing to spend more money, and are interested in overclocking right now, you could go with an unlocked i5.  There is the argument that going with an overclockable CPU will extend the useful life of the processor, potentially making it last an extra couple years, but this is when you start getting close to that $800 mark.  No matter what, I would consider buying the R9 290 right now because it is at a very low price.  Typically $275, it is only $235 right now.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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Sigh. I can't buy the graphics card now. I've barely started saving. And I'm under age, no job. And I've already set up my Christmas list :)

Is there another card I could use with equal performance of it goes back up before I can afford it, or should I just save up the extra $40.00? Also, are those two builds from faceman the two builds everyone mostly agrees would be good?

Just a guy who peaked at building back in the days of the GTX 980. If you see me here, assume i have technical knowledge akin to a committed hobbyist builder back then. If something's changed, you'll need to tell me(nicely plz). I'm probably asking for help with the modern build scene since I have no clue what's going on.

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Sigh. I can't buy the graphics card now. I've barely started saving. And I'm under age, no job. And I've already set up my Christmas list :)

Is there another card I could use with equal performance of it goes back up before I can afford it, or should I just save up the extra $40.00? Also, are those two builds from faceman the two builds everyone mostly agrees would be good?

Just keep an eye on the price, it has been bouncing up and down from $220-$280.  Just have to catch it when its low.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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