Go Haswell or not?

[SirTibio]

Hello everyone. I'm considering buying a new motherboard, cpu and ram. The problem is my budget (it's something around 611$ or 465€ but in my currency which is Polish Zloty) I can't afford all new parts so I decided to upgrade the key components. I'm thinking about i7 3770k + MSI Z77A-G43 + 1x8Gb RAM. I would use my 500W OCZ modXstream psu and nvidia GTS 450 from my current rig. I have few questions:

 

1. Should I buy Haswell instead? (e.g. wait untill the price drop a bit)

2. Is it really worth it to buy Haswell? 

3. Can my 500W handle an i7? (not OCd)

4. Can I run system with just 1 stick of RAM? (so I could later on add another one)

 

PS. I'm not too worried about the bottleneck because I will use it mainly for 3d rendering and 3d graphics like e.g. 3ds Max.

[ERSCreeper]

Get whichever is cheaper. Also get the Non-K edition if you are going to get that board. Can't do much overclocking with it.

[virusal19]

1 - The difference from IB to Haswell is not much of a difference unless you want the better graphics.

 

2 - It depends 

 

3 - Yes, the 500W PSU is more than enough for your rig

 

4 - Yes, you can run your system with a single stick of RAM but keep in mind that adding and mixing RAM from a different batch is never recommended 

[SMURG]

1 and 2 - Haswell is ~10% faster clock per clock than Ivybridge. Look at the prices and decide which is the better choice. Here in the UK, there's like a £5 difference between the 3770k and the 4770k, so I'd say go for Haswell if you have a similar situation across the channel :P

3 - as virusal said, yes. 500W is plenty nowadays, especially with a GPU like yours :)

4 - Yes, but performance would be sub-optimal, both in terms of RAM quantity and RAM channelling (Haswell and Ivybridge both support dual channel RAM, but you can only run a single stick in one channel). This will mean your computer will generally run slower, and in particular will lagg if you are trying to multi-task.

[SirTibio]

So it's better to get 2x4 Gb rather than 1x8, right? 

 

Get whichever is cheaper. Also get the Non-K edition if you are going to get that board. Can't do much overclocking with it.

Which mobo would you recommend then for OC? I thought that z77 is good for OC.

[ERSCreeper]

Z77 is the chipset but the PWM is important. There are a lot of motherboards that are good for OCing. MSI Z77A-GD55/65, Asus ROG boards, Gigabyte UD3H/UD5H etc. what's your budget for your motherboard.

[SirTibio]

I wouldn't like to spend on mobo more than 500 zlotys (~116€ / 152$). On second thought though, I'm not sure about this OC. Because I'm pretty sure I'd have to get liquid cooling and all that. Is 3770k good enough to get it not and OC in more in the future?. Because I take that this turbo boost up to 3.9 is available even on non-K versions, right?

[ERSCreeper]

Yeah, Go for a MSI Z77A-GD45 if you can. Yes the turbo goes up to 3.9Ghz on both the K and Non-K.

[SirTibio]

Thanks a lot for your help  :)

[ALXAndy]

In gaming Haswell struggles to beat Ivy.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-haswell-core-i7-4770k-review

 

I say go with whatever is cheaper, but watch out, Haswell can be a real hot potato.

[Gidiyorsun]

If you aren't going to be overclocking, i'd say go with something else than a z77. A H61 board will do everything you might need from your system for less than half the price of z77. Don't go with the K version of whichever processor you wan't. The PSU is fine for your build and a single ram-block can run alone :).

[SMURG]

In gaming Haswell struggles to beat Ivy.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-haswell-core-i7-4770k-review

 

I say go with whatever is cheaper, but watch out, Haswell can be a real hot potato.

It does beat it though. Plus, that link only compares the 3770k and 4770k. Games are so GPU-bound these days that obviously at the top-end of the lineup the differences will be smaller because you're into diminishing returns. I think a 3570k vs 4670k may have been a better test of gaming performance...

[Kruziik_Kel]

It does beat it though. Plus, that link only compares the 3770k and 4770k. Games are so GPU-bound these days that obviously at the top-end of the lineup the differences will be smaller because you're into diminishing returns. I think a 3570k vs 4670k may have been a better test of gaming performance...

 

Because removing Hyperthreading effects single threaded performance........................

 

Main issue with haswell in my opinion is heat it inherits the issues on Ivy caused by the slightly concave IHS, crappy TIM and 3D Tri Gate Transistors but it also adds the on chip VRM which has brought up the temps a lot and the retail chips are proving to be WORSE than the review samples honestly id still go Ivy or wait for Steamroller 

[SMURG]

Because removing Hyperthreading effects single threaded performance........................

 

Main issue with haswell in my opinion is heat it inherits the issues on Ivy caused by the slightly concave IHS, crappy TIM and 3D Tri Gate Transistors but it also adds the on chip VRM which has brought up the temps a lot and the retail chips are proving to be WORSE than the review samples honestly id still go Ivy or wait for Steamroller 

Removing hyperthreading would highlight the faster single threaded performance on Haswell.

I agree that heat is going to be an issue, but 3D tri-gate transistors are a good thing... At the end of the day, Ivybridge vs Haswell is like Gtx 680 vs GTX 770. They're basically the same and each has its individual merits, so ALXAndy kinda has a point when he says go for whichever is cheaper.

[ALXAndy]

If it were 3570k vs 4670k then some one would have complained it wasn't the I7s :D

 

Sadly Haswell 'improvements' are so little that if you benched the chips vs eachother over say, ten times, most of the difference could come down to margin of error given it really is that tight.

[SMURG]

If it were 3570k vs 4670k then some one would have complained it wasn't the I7s :D

 

Sadly Haswell 'improvements' are so little that if you benched the chips vs eachother over say, ten times, most of the difference could come down to margin of error given it really is that tight.

Only in games tbf, where as I said before you're GPU-bound anyway. With things like Handbrake there's actually quite a reasonable performance jump, especially when you use quicksync on the iGPU since Haswell sees some considerable improvement on that front. I agree that if you already have ivybridge parts though, there's no reason to upgrade if all you're doing is gaming.

[SirTibio]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. By the way, should I reinstall windows once I get new cpu + mobo?

[Keystone Nyan Cat]

One thing that Haswell did get right was better power effeciency, so if anything you could add more stuff to your PC. Is it worth it- that depends on your usage scenario. If you are using onboard graphics, rely on NFC for a great deal of your devices [ASUS is releasing some NFC z87 add on which you may find attractive], are concerned with how many SATA 3 or USB ports your motherboard has, or care about how much power your build consumes, then yes, it worth the upgrade. Other than that, no. If Haswell prices drop, Ivy Bridge will too and I recommend picking up and Ivy Bridge processor then and overcloking it with a decent CPU cooler with the money saved.

And yes, you can run your system with one stick of RAM :)

[T.Vengeance]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. By the way, should I reinstall windows once I get new cpu + mobo?

No, reinstalling Windows isn't necessary. But Windows might say it isn't genuine so consider downloading Advance Token Manager or risk pulling your hair out with Windows Phone Activation :P

http://www.howtogeek.com/75496/how-to-reinstall-windows-without-having-to-reactivate/

[Alex Dimitri]

Few things to consider if you go Haswell you will need new PSU also since lot of the old ones will not work !!!

 

Haswell also get`s very hot (more than Ivy Bridge).

 

Overall gain compared to last generation isn`t that big (actually it`s hard to see it if you don`t have stop-watch next to you on desktop) few seconds here few FPS there.......but nothing spectacular.

 

Point would be Haswell demands new Mobo,PSU,RAM (might get away with old if there is no OC).....just a little bit to much to go for upgrade !

[DavePC]

Few things to consider if you go Haswell you will need new PSU also since lot of the old ones will not work !!!

 

Haswell also get`s very hot (more than Ivy Bridge).

 

Overall gain compared to last generation isn`t that big (actually it`s hard to see it if you don`t have stop-watch next to you on desktop) few seconds here few FPS there.......but nothing spectacular.

 

Point would be Haswell demands new Mobo,PSU,RAM (might get away with old if there is no OC).....just a little bit to much to go for upgrade !

 

This is incorrect.

 

1) You do not need a new PSU for haswell, Haswell enables lower power states called "C-States", basically it requires higher efficiency in your power supply to enable less power draw.

You can easily disable this in your motherboard BIOS settings. 

 

Source: http://www.logicalincrements.com/haswell/

 

2) I can't find any information regarding Haswell temperatures, but I can't imagine it being much higher than ivy bridge. 

 

3) This is generally correct, Haswell only shows about a 10 - 20% increase, compared to Ivy Bridge.

 

----------------

 

For the OP,

 

Hello everyone. I'm considering buying a new motherboard, cpu and ram. The problem is my budget (it's something around 611$ or 465€ but in my currency which is Polish Zloty) I can't afford all new parts so I decided to upgrade the key components. I'm thinking about i7 3770k + MSI Z77A-G43 + 1x8Gb RAM. I would use my 500W OCZ modXstream psu and nvidia GTS 450 from my current rig. I have few questions:

 

1. Should I buy Haswell instead? (e.g. wait untill the price drop a bit)

 

Up to you, 10 - 20% performance increase, better upgrade ability, and more power efficient.

 

2. Is it really worth it to buy Haswell? 

 

It depends, if Haswell is cheaper, than go with Haswell. Vice versa for Ivy Bridge, there isn't a huge difference, keep in mind though that the LGA 1150 socket has better upgrade ability in the future. 

 

3. Can my 500W handle an i7? (not OCd)

 

Yes, anything 430W and above can handle an i7 + GPU. 

 

4. Can I run system with just 1 stick of RAM? (so I could later on add another one)

 

Yes, but you won't be taking advantage of your motherboards dual channel RAM functions, and will not get as much performance as you would have with 2 sticks of RAM. 

 

(if you plan on adding another one, make sure they are the same!)

 

The 3770k is good, but if you don't plan on over clocking you should get the non-K if it is cheaper.

 

The G43 is a great motherboard, however I would recommend getting a kit of two RAM sticks as explained above. 

[Alex Dimitri]

@

DavePC

"This is incorrect.

 

1) You do not need a new PSU for haswell, Haswell enables lower power states called "C-States", basically it requires higher efficiency in your power supply to enable less power draw.

You can easily disable this in your motherboard BIOS settings."

 

True but then again if you turn off things like that (new features) you don`t really need new CPU :P

[DavePC]

True, the power efficiency wont be as great, but there will still be some power reduction regardless, as Haswell overall is more efficient in power use than ivy bridge. 

 

You still get more SATA 6 ports, more options for RAM speeds, and a bit more of performance.

 

I still think that the price is the main issue, for both the motherboard and CPU. 

[SMURG]

True, the power efficiency wont be as great, but there will still be some power reduction regardless, as Haswell overall is more efficient in power use than ivy bridge. 

 

You still get more SATA 6 ports, more options for RAM speeds, and a bit more of performance.

 

I still think that the price is the main issue, for both the motherboard and CPU. 

Over here in the UK there is literally no price difference at all lol