What everyone doesn't understand about the wireless industry

[nick99n]

I specifically didn't go with U-Verse because of their caps.  

 

I don't have any TV service, so all of my audio-video entertainment comes from the internet.   I would hate having a cap.  Here's my usage. 

mfw i have a data plan of 1 gb per month and you top that in a day at minimum 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1fNScYvpsdU/TGrPMjTchaI/AAAAAAAAAm0/gDF5IDJyVFY/s400/shocked+guy.jpg

[nick99n]

Oh no you mean they would need to upgrade their network to make it usable to everyone they sold their data to? 

i think he tries to say 

dont stream netflix at 4k when you are at your bed because you are bored to walk to the pc 

they said unlimited and it actually is unlimited does not mean they will not throttle 

the carrier should make sure every customer knew about throttling but on the other side they start throttling when they hit a big cap not something like 3 gb

[Psykomantis00]

i think he tries to say 

dont stream netflix at 4k when you are at your bed because you are bored to walk to the pc 

they said unlimited and it actually is unlimited does not mean they will not throttle 

the carrier should make sure every customer knew about throttling but on the other side they start throttling when they hit a big cap not something like 3 gb

Or, I'll stream netflix at 20k on my toilet if I want to. They need to fix their networks to accommodate the extra usage of today's day and age. 

[nick99n]

Or, I'll stream netflix at 20k on my toilet if I want to. They need to fix their networks to accommodate the extra usage of today's day and age. 

i wont argue with you....

Ok 

[Pickle]

Deliver what you advertise. If you can't  deliver it, don't advertise it. Otherwise, find a way to do it. Upgrade your infrastructure. Oh, you spend 10-15% of your gross profits on upgrading? Spend more. I don't pay half of my bill and I don't want you to deliver only half of your promises. You're giant, fat and rich corporation and I don't want to hear any excuses.

[LAwLz]

I'll be honest, even though AT&T is a competitor of where I work, you guys need to understand something. Soft data caps for home internet ranges from 100-250GB a month. This is a soft cap because the physical data lines ran and the servers are designed to handle every single customer using these soft caps. Clearly most people don't come close.

I have 0 data caps on my home connection. I know it's common in the US, Canada and Australia but it's not common in the rest of the world. I upload over 1TB (with a big B) a month and probably download just as much and I don't get any kind of throttling.

No hard or soft caps at all (on my house connection). I can understand the excuse of having data caps on mobile connections but I think it's inexcusable to have it on ADSL/Fiber connections.

 

 

However, wireless spectrum, like the 700MHz that the XLTE runs over has much much harsher limits. The wireless spectrum is not designed for everyone to stream Netflix as if they did it would absolutely crash the entire network. It's a limit that the wireless spectrum can handle. Now, over the last few years, there have been major overhauls to the spectrum and data transmission that is allowing company's like Verizon to add larger data packs for less because the network is slowly being able to handle more and more traffic.

I don't think anyone argues against the wireless spectrum having a very finite amount of bandwidth. You can't just add more or faster cables like with home Internet. You will probably have a hard time finding people who disagrees with this.

Interference is a bitch. You can't have a lot of people using the same wavelengths and carriers only have a small amount of the frequency spectrum they can use.

That's not why people are upset though.

 

 

So you get upset about the "throttling" unlimited data need to stop. The Networks cannot handle the abuse you put on it period. Seeing someone using 80GB a month is sickening because even if 20% of our customers used that much out Network would be offline most of the time. This isn't the company's being greedy or shady, it's them trying to keep a stable network while growing to help accommodate tens of millions of people.

This is where I think most people will disagree with you. If you buy something that says "unlimited data", then it's not "abusing the network" to use it a lot (I'd say 80GB isn't even that much).

On my carrier I have a 3GB data cap. After 3GB they start to throttle me heavily. I don't have to pay extra for using more data, but the speeds are pretty damn horrible (enough to for example check plain text emails though). My carrier advertises this as 3GB because that's what they allow me to use before throttling. By some ISP standards they could consider this "unlimited data" because I really can use however much I want, just at a reduced speed after a certain limit.

Don't advertise yourself as having "unlimited data" if you in reality have a cap of let's say 80GB. Advertise it as an 80GB cap. ISPs are making promises they can't keep and that's what's pissing people off.

The tech community can seem pretty hateful at times. I mean just look at Ubisoft right now. But most of the time they get mad at things because of lies. If ISPs, developers and other companies were just being honest about the limitations of their products then I am sure there would be far less hate directed at them.

Does your "unlimited data" plan have a cap and when that cap is reached people start getting throttled? Then don't say that it is unlimited data. Just say that it's an 80GB data cap or whatever it may be. Most people would probably be totally okay with getting throttled after 80GB if the plan they bought had an 80GB cap.

[DigitalHermit]

actually things are kind of fine as they are.

 

in my country there are plans like

 

"Unlimited Internet up to 10mbps" then somewhere on the paper it says something like "for more information go look at their FUP (Fair Use Policy)"  and for anything lesser some show a cap of like 15gb per day something like that.

 

anyways people in other country should be happy they have a faster connection for a cheaper price although that means people might reach their cap faster.

 

edit: they should put something like internet speed up to 50mbps with a 250gb cap per month. and not put the cap somewhere else.

can't really be called unlimited if there is a cap.

 

People of LTT, I bring you the most unfair "Fair Use Policies" I have ever seen...

http://www.globe.com.ph/surf/fup

http://tattoo.globe.com.ph/fup

http://www.globe.com.ph/help/data/fup

[Joshua Ondangan]

People of LTT, I bring you the most unfair "Fair Use Policies" I have ever seen...

http://www.globe.com.ph/surf/fup

http://tattoo.globe.com.ph/fup

http://www.globe.com.ph/help/data/fup

Totally agree with you.

[Briggsy]

I'm switching ISP's in a few days due to data caps. its understandable from a business standpoint to upgrade infrastructure in the cheapest way possible, so that limitations exist and data caps "need" to be put in place. if infrastructure was designed to handle the highest load possible for the existing population, no caps would be in place, and it would be lost revenue from data over-usage and more money being put into infrastructure than needed. ergo, the premise of this thread is utter nonsense. 25-30% load on any wireless network results in congestion. its a mathematical formula that works across many fields of study. when infrastructure is designed, data caps are already part of the design, and not an after the fact "oh crap, we can't handle all the traffic" kind of decision. OP, go back and finish your Kool-aid.

[Chelsi_Gamer]

I'm not referring to sprint/tmobile. I'm referring to the old data plans at&t and VZW offered years ago. We at vzw don't offered unlimited data. Our network cannot handle it due to the change of times. These plans were offered when "big data" didn't exist. Pictures were 50 times smaller and videos were only 144p. Up to my 30gb plan I receive full speed no issue.

[watts300]

mfw i have a data plan of 1 gb per month and you top that in a day at minimum 

 

Heh.. well.  Maybe.  But we were probably comparing apples and oranges.  I messed up with my first reply thinking that the topic was about a regular ISP and not a cellular carrier.  

 

It's easier to use a modest amount of cell data in a whole month.   As for the usage I posted... it comes from all kinds of the regular stuff:   We have a handful of video game systems, my son is on Skype a lot, I watch a lot of YouTube and Netflix, download movies and tv shows... etc..    

 

I ditched cable tv service about 5 years ago and we haven't missed it one bit. 

[madhopsk]

I'll be honest, even though AT&T is a competitor of where I work, you guys need to understand something. Soft data caps for home internet ranges from 100-250GB a month. This is a soft cap because the physical data lines ran and the servers are designed to handle every single customer using these soft caps. Clearly most people don't come close.

However, wireless spectrum, like the 700MHz that the XLTE runs over has much much harsher limits. The wireless spectrum is not designed for everyone to stream Netflix as if they did it would absolutely crash the entire network. It's a limit that the wireless spectrum can handle. Now, over the last few years, there have been major overhauls to the spectrum and data transmission that is allowing company's like Verizon to add larger data packs for less because the network is slowly being able to handle more and more traffic.

So you get upset about the "throttling" unlimited data need to stop. The Networks cannot handle the abuse you put on it period. Seeing someone using 80GB a month is sickening because even if 20% of our customers used that much out Network would be offline most of the time. This isn't the company's being greedy or shady, it's them trying to keep a stable network while growing to help accommodate tens of millions of people.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make and I know there is a limit to the wireless spectrum's bandwidth. However, If your water supplier advertised "UNLIMITED WATER" for $50/month. Wouldn't you be pissed if your water pressure went down to just a dribble during your morning shower? The problem isn't the wireless spectrum, it is the companies that will advertise that they have unlimited data when in reality they can barely support 20% of their users at a time.

[madhopsk]

Edit: I have a 30gb plan and we've used close to that once on purpose and my speeds never dropped. The issue is, unlimited users that are abusing the Network on Verizon simply don't have priority access on congested towers for us anyway.

 

It isn't abusing the network when they are advertised "UNLIMITED" and pay for said "unlimited". If the network can't support unlimited(meaning 24/7 download/upload at the advertised speed). Then the companies should simply not advertise it. Burger joints that offer "unlimited" refills don't turn down the speed of the fountains when you try to get a second refill.

[madhopsk]

I just check my router's traffic monitor and last month we download 522GB. That may seem like A LOT of data but when you realize we are paying for a 100Mb/s connection. 500gb would only saturate this conncection for 12.5 hour out of the 700+hours in a month. This is less than 2% of the total data I am advertised, yet most people would see it as excessive. Data should be advertised at a specific speed for an amount of time, not a total amount of GB downloaded. Lets not go back to that time of paying for each minute you spend online.

[Chelsi_Gamer]

I just check my router's traffic monitor and last month we download 522GB. That may seem like A LOT of data but when you realize we are paying for a 100Mb/s connection. 500gb would only saturate this conncection for 12.5 hour out of the 700+hours in a month. This is less than 2% of the total data I am advertised, yet most people would see it as excessive. Data should be advertised at a specific speed for an amount of time, not a total amount of GB downloaded. Lets not go back to that time of paying for each minute you spend online.

Company's like at&t and VZW don't advertise unlimited Internet anymore we don't offer it and haven't for years. It was a feature available in a different time is my point. We don't offer unlimited anymore.

[madhopsk]

Company's like at&t and VZW don't advertise unlimited Internet anymore we don't offer it and haven't for years. It was a feature available in a different time is my point. We don't offer unlimited anymore.

 

Everyone knows that they don't offer unlimited anymore, but there are still many people (includeing my brother), who are still in an unlimited data contract. If he wanted to leave ATT, they would hold him to the terms of the contract and force a penalty, why should he not hold ATT to the agreed contract of unlimited data?

[Chelsi_Gamer]

Everyone knows that they don't offer unlimited anymore, but there are still many people (includeing my brother), who are still in an unlimited data contract. If he wanted to leave ATT, they would hold him to the terms of the contract and force a penalty, why should he not hold ATT to the agreed contract of unlimited data?

Again the contract is bound to the phone not the features or plans. If you have unlimited data on verizon, buy a full retail phone and put it on your plan it's month to month with no contract. The plan and features have no binding contracts to them.

[madhopsk]

Again the contract is bound to the phone not the features or plans. If you have unlimited data on verizon, buy a full retail phone and put it on your plan it's month to month with no contract. The plan and features have no binding contracts to them.

 

You can sign into a contract with a phone you already own.

[xmx1024]

No offence, but if you can't sustain people using that much data, maybe you should upgrade until it's bulletproof

They could have THE BEST hardware at the bases of their towers and in their network. It's just how wireless works.

[Chelsi_Gamer]

You can sign into a contract with a phone you already own.

but why would you? When people open up new lines with Verizon but using an old phone, it is a month to month agreement that can be canceled whenever. We only apply a contract when a phone is bought at a subsidized price. So if you enter a 2 year contract with CPE (Customer provided equipment) you're not doing it right.

[dalekphalm]

Again the contract is bound to the phone not the features or plans. If you have unlimited data on verizon, buy a full retail phone and put it on your plan it's month to month with no contract. The plan and features have no binding contracts to them.

Maybe it's different in the US (kinda doubt it), but the contract itself very much covers both device and plan. Part of the reason (benefit) for a consumer to sign a 2+ year mobile contract is to secure the price of the plan. The other benefit is of course subsidized phone prices.

 

Maybe Verizon contracts/plans are different? I would have to read an example of the actual contract Verizon offers to say for certain.

[Chelsi_Gamer]

Maybe it's different in the US (kinda doubt it), but the contract itself very much covers both device and plan. Part of the reason (benefit) for a consumer to sign a 2+ year mobile contract is to secure the price of the plan. The other benefit is of course subsidized phone prices.

Maybe Verizon contracts/plans are different? I would have to read an example of the actual contract Verizon offers to say for certain.

I've sold every major carrier at some point and currently work for Verizon

Over here we get subsidized pricing on phones. Since we pay full retail for IPhone and you pay about 1/3rd you have to sign a contract for the phone. The price plans and features can be changed at any time. The contract has nothing to do with the features and plans. Trust me I change and migrate plans all the time. It doesn't change their contracts at all.

[madhopsk]

I've sold every major carrier at some point and currently work for Verizon

Over here we get subsidized pricing on phones. Since we pay full retail for IPhone and you pay about 1/3rd you have to sign a contract for the phone. The price plans and features can be changed at any time. The contract has nothing to do with the features and plans. Trust me I change and migrate plans all the time. It doesn't change their contracts at all.

 

If someone with a 2-yr contract goes to verison/att/sprint, and says they are done and are switching carriers, all of these companies are going to charge them some sort of penalty fee for not completing the contract. Why would the customer not ask the companies to uphold their unlimited data?

[saya_kucing]

It's a cheat's way to market speeds as, for example; 800KB/s when in reality if the network/data exchange is saturated you can realistically be getting far, FAR lower. There should be more of an understanding of this as marketed speeds are often upped in order to compete with other service providers.

 

I understand why they do it, but that doesn't make it right.

 

There needs to be a specific way to test - under controlled conditions about what the expected speeds should ACTUALLY be.

Obviously there needs to be some leeway in terms of what the ISP can practically provide. Everyone just needs to be on the same page of what speeds are practicable, and what speeds are optimal, best-case-scanario.

 

It's a shame that under fine print ISPs are allowed to get away with this - as the average consumer will just glance over the sticker speeds.

This happens far too much with large companies maximising profits and glossing over and dishonouring the product.