Electronic Ecosystem Discussion (Ex. Apple)

[JLCitadel]

With the introduction of many new technologies as of recent years, it's become increasingly difficult to manage and function in a cohesive manner the multitude of devices across different platforms. In the fast past world of today, where many individuals find themselves lacking on time, a cohesive ecosystem would be seen as a major benefit.

 

As I've personally grown and matured, the amount of time I dedicate to certain things has become more static. This in turn makes me lean more toward having a group of devices that enable and add ease to my life. While I am much more proficient than the average citizen, I still enjoy ease of use as I'm sure all of you do.

 

Unlike before, when you pick a phone, a computer operating system, or a console, you're picking a 'side' to a certain extent, and it's almost forced upon us if we want the devices to communicate important information. This leads to the questions I'm asking you today, how do you feel about choosing an ecosystem to be apart of, does it affect the nature and electronics in a positive light by for example driving competition or does it hinder it promoting companies to become settled with their 'groupies' knowing they'll flock back with incremental changes?

 

To be completely honest, I'd love to buy a Car, Motorcycle, Home Electronics System, Appliances, Desktop Computer, Laptop, Console, Tablet, and Phone from a single company, have them all look modern, and function together in a cohesive way, but that's not possible, and not a reasonable thing to ask. Which leads to choosing separate companies, for example.

 

Car & Motorcycle - BMW

Home Automation System & Laptop & Tablet & Phone - Apple

Appliances - GE

Console - Nintendo

Desktop Computer - Windows

 

So before beginning this discussion, I'd like to ask that everyone avoids a polarized discussion, and really analyze how they personally feel about the questions I've placed forward, not simply 'which ecosystem is better' but how you think they could affect the directions of companies trying to branch out, or how you chose a certain group based on your needs, or other questions I've laid forward prior to this paragraph.

[Trik'Stari]

I'd just like to see some sort of reason to match your Motherboard with your Graphics card. I like my Gigabyte motherboard, but the Gigabyte "windforce" cards just don't match it at all, they look hideous (to me) and you see no improvement in performance by matching them. Give me some reason to buy both your products and I will.

[JLCitadel]

I'd just like to see some sort of reason to match your Motherboard with your Graphics card. I like my Gigabyte motherboard, but the Gigabyte "windforce" cards just don't match it at all, they look hideous (to me) and you see no improvement in performance by matching them. Give me some reason to buy both your products and I will.

 

I know.. Doing a black and white pc build is difficult without custom painting or going with a part you don't really want to.

[Swndlr]

this is interesting as a concept imo but only in a perfect world would we see things like this sadly enough

[Trik'Stari]

I know.. Doing a black and white pc build is difficult without custom painting or going with a part you don't really want to.

Very true. I want to do a purple theme with UV orange accents (think black lights and orange UV stuff.) and almost nothing suits that.

 

But it's more than just that, offer me some sort of advantage to running your graphics card on your motherboard. I know that's probably not possible, but it would be nice to see.

 

Although, in answer to your main question, closed eco systems aren't a good thing. Sure its good for ease of use, but if we all bought everything from the exact same company, there would be no reason for that company to innovate and create new and better products.

[Legion]

I don't really like relying on one company for everything, I use firefox and thunderbird, android and windows. Sadly google is making it very difficult to not get locked in to their services.

[Firearm2112]

I'm just wondering why you excluded apple?

 

I could see them making an attempt to integrate into a car or something. 

[MisterZero]

I'm currently using a car which hasn't even got a single computer chip inside, only basic electronics for the injection. So the car aspect will not be commented on.

 

As far as have had experience with consumer electronics and their ecosystems, I have seen great things and other lesser bothersome changes.

I am using Android, Windows, and sometimes Linux (openSUSE).

 

Before I became a student and had to manage my time in order to be productive, I would do whatever the heck was ghetto but worked for my situation. Sadly now I have to manage a tight schedule between classes, work and assignments... So now when I need a piece of equipment (e.g. a DAC/AMP), I go online and search for hours on end without finding a perfect fitting device... I have a USB DAC/AMP on my desk now, but it's getting really old, and I can't get myself into replacing it because having it like so enable some convenience...

 

I am able to switch from my headphones to my DAC just by turning it on, and Windows recognizing it as a new sound output device changes the default output for everything (very convenient). But it's getting old and emitting a very loud coil whine which becomes very annoying when I have it on for an extended period of time.

 

So why is it that I cannot find a suitable replacement? Perhaps is it because I can not search that well, or is it because it's an uncommon product?

I do not know, but having this and also other compatibility problems between different electronics manufacturer makes me wonder.

 

If a monitor (built by Samsung/Dell/LG/AOC/random-chinese-or-korean-company-who's-cheap-and-really-good or other) is made to be compatible with a graphics card AMD or NVIDIA or an Intel video chip, why is it they all provide the same basic feature? Resolution is normalized, sizes too (kind of, lately they have rather strange 21:9 things that Linus seems to like a lot), and the connectors...

 

Why is it that you can have a very strange or complicated standard like DisplayPort (I know it's free, but it's an example) be implemented everywhere in graphics cards, it's the best technology ever, the connector is robust and pretty easy to plug in without damaging it (unlike VGA or DVI), and still, most monitors don't use it.

 

Why can't we have a Software ecosystem across multiple platforms like Apple does (of course they are managing the whole thing so it's not a very fair comparison), but still we manage to implement an industry standard over night on the hardware side?

 

Programming is time consuming and costs a lot of money, because it's made by a human workforce. But how much is implementing DisplayPort? The connectors are all already designed!

 

I vote for a world where we can have similar if not exactly equal functionality across multiple software platforms, and take an example on Apple who has gotten a lot of customers for exactly this reason !

 

I don't like Apple products nor their behavior, and in no way am I affiliated or paid by Apple, and also mostly I like to hate on them, but this (stated above) is a truly great thing they have done.

[JLCitadel]

I'm just wondering why you excluded apple?

 

I could see them making an attempt to integrate into a car or something. 

Ex. is commonly used as a shorthand or abbreviation for example, meaning i was not excluding apple, but using them as a direct example.

 

I don't really like relying on one company for everything, I use firefox and thunderbird, android and windows. Sadly google is making it very difficult to not get locked in to their services.

I would prefer to keep it that way, keeps files and things more organized, makes keeping track of events, alarms, contacts, messages, emails, all easier when it's cohesive and I love what google is doing.

 

Very true. I want to do a purple theme with UV orange accents (think black lights and orange UV stuff.) and almost nothing suits that.

 

But it's more than just that, offer me some sort of advantage to running your graphics card on your motherboard. I know that's probably not possible, but it would be nice to see.

 

Although, in answer to your main question, closed eco systems aren't a good thing. Sure its good for ease of use, but if we all bought everything from the exact same company, there would be no reason for that company to innovate and create new and better products.

As long as there's multiple companies with ecosystems that can compete against each other I don't think they can really settle. Look at Intel, amd has trailed back but they're still pushing ahead, and AMD is trying to drive forward and make a good comeback.

 

this is interesting as a concept imo but only in a perfect world would we see things like this sadly enough

Maybe one day.

[JLCitadel]

I'm currently using a car which hasn't even got a single computer chip inside, only basic electronics for the injection. So the car aspect will not be commented on.

 

As far as have had experience with consumer electronics and their ecosystems, I have seen great things and other lesser bothersome changes.

I am using Android, Windows, and sometimes Linux (openSUSE).

 

Before I became a student and had to manage my time in order to be productive, I would do whatever the heck was ghetto but worked for my situation. Sadly now I have to manage a tight schedule between classes, work and assignments... So now when I need a piece of equipment (e.g. a DAC/AMP), I go online and search for hours on end without finding a perfect fitting device... I have a USB DAC/AMP on my desk now, but it's getting really old, and I can't get myself into replacing it because having it like so enable some convenience...

 

I am able to switch from my headphones to my DAC just by turning it on, and Windows recognizing it as a new sound output device changes the default output for everything (very convenient). But it's getting old and emitting a very loud coil whine which becomes very annoying when I have it on for an extended period of time.

 

So why is it that I cannot find a suitable replacement? Perhaps is it because I can not search that well, or is it because it's an uncommon product?

I do not know, but having this and also other compatibility problems between different electronics manufacturer makes me wonder.

 

If a monitor (built by Samsung/Dell/LG/AOC/random-chinese-or-korean-company-who's-cheap-and-really-good or other) is made to be compatible with a graphics card AMD or NVIDIA or an Intel video chip, why is it they all provide the same basic feature? Resolution is normalized, sizes too (kind of, lately they have rather strange 21:9 things that Linus seems to like a lot), and the connectors...

 

Why is it that you can have a very strange or complicated standard like DisplayPort (I know it's free, but it's an example) be implemented everywhere in graphics cards, it's the best technology ever, the connector is robust and pretty easy to plug in without damaging it (unlike VGA or DVI), and still, most monitors don't use it.

 

Why can't we have a Software ecosystem across multiple platforms like Apple does (of course they are managing the whole thing so it's not a very fair comparison), but still we manage to implement an industry standard over night on the hardware side?

 

Programming is time consuming and costs a lot of money, because it's made by a human workforce. But how much is implementing DisplayPort? The connectors are all already designed!

 

I vote for a world where we can have similar if not exactly equal functionality across multiple software platforms, and take an example on Apple who has gotten a lot of customers for exactly this reason !

 

I don't like Apple products nor their behavior, and in no way am I affiliated or paid by Apple, and also mostly I like to hate on them, but this (stated above) is a truly great thing they have done.

 

Very good example, certain things just need to be a standard. I think apple has done a fantastic job with pushing toward a future with cohesive systems, while I would never touch a mac pc with a 10 foot poll, I do love all the industrial designs of their products, and will gladly use their other products. (phone tablet and laptop)

[MisterZero]

Very good example, certain things just need to be a standard. I think apple has done a fantastic job with pushing toward a future with cohesive systems, while I would never touch a mac pc with a 10 foot poll, I do love all the industrial designs of their products, and will gladly use their other products. (phone tablet and laptop)

 

I do not so much like to use their product, but that's just my thing, however like you, I think other companies should take example on Apple.

 

Because if a hardware change is going berzerk and making it into any and every product (like USB for instance), changing a lot of the previous generation products of the same type, why is it that we cannot implement a good cross-platform software ecosystem, you don't need to rewrite the Windows Kernel for that, you can just make the app, it's not like you have to change the entire layout of the components of the motherboard to fit your new and improved ecosystem, it's software it's implementation could be as simple as a couple of guys saying, we are going to take over the world by making the first ever ecosystem competing with Apple.

 

And I must say, I doubt it would be that hard, if it's not perfect... well it's okay we don't expect it to be for the couple of first generations, it's not Apple...

All the Apple haters could finally take advantage of being able to work in a full ecosystem without having to buy into Apple products, the world would be a perfect place (if Comcast and AT&T and Time-Warner Cable got their shit together and started spending money instead of filling their pockets...)

[JLCitadel]

I do not so much like to use their product, but that's just my thing, however like you, I think other companies should take example on Apple.

 

Because if a hardware change is going berzerk and making it into any and every product (like USB for instance), changing a lot of the previous generation products of the same type, why is it that we cannot implement a good cross-platform software ecosystem, you don't need to rewrite the Windows Kernel for that, you can just make the app, it's not like you have to change the entire layout of the components of the motherboard to fit your new and improved ecosystem, it's software it's implementation could be as simple as a couple of guys saying, we are going to take over the world by making the first ever ecosystem competing with Apple.

 

And I must say, I doubt it would be that hard, if it's not perfect... well it's okay we don't expect it to be for the couple of first generations, it's not Apple...

All the Apple haters could finally take advantage of being able to work in a full ecosystem without having to buy into Apple products, the world would be a perfect place (if Comcast and AT&T and Time-Warner Cable got their shit together and started spending money instead of filling their pockets...)

 

While I do hate their desktop operating systems, their tablet and phones have the same principle app based system as everyone else in the mobile market, and having a laptop that works with your tablet and phone well is just convenient imo, but I agree whole heatedly I doubt we'll see any adoption of usb 3.1c at all because of this.

 

As for telecoms, they're the exact example of what would go wrong if these companies got commonplace.

[Trik'Stari]

Ex. is commonly used as a shorthand or abbreviation for example, meaning i was not excluding apple, but using them as a direct example.

 

I would prefer to keep it that way, keeps files and things more organized, makes keeping track of events, alarms, contacts, messages, emails, all easier when it's cohesive and I love what google is doing.

 

As long as there's multiple companies with ecosystems that can compete against each other I don't think they can really settle. Look at Intel, amd has trailed back but they're still pushing ahead, and AMD is trying to drive forward and make a good comeback.

 

Maybe one day.

A good point.

[Cookie Monster]

 

 

I would prefer to keep it that way, keeps files and things more organized, makes keeping track of events, alarms, contacts, messages, emails, all easier when it's cohesive and I love what google is doing.

 

Vendor lock in is extremely bad in the long run. Do people really believe google isn't as evil as microsoft or IBM were before them?

[KemoKa]

Vendor lock in is extremely bad in the long run. Do people really believe google isn't as evil as microsoft or IBM were before them?

Lots of people do because Google used to be the underdog. They had very little influence over what actually went on. Now they are a backbone of the internet.

 

People who think they aren't as evil are still idiots though.

I wish we could have an open-source non-profit organization just become huge and be awesome. Like Linux will become as an operating system.

[madcow]

Google is evil. I keep trying to at the very least switch from chrome to FF but chrome is just so much faster.. I'm still using 3 gmail accounts and an android phone (Nexus of all things) which would be very hard to get rid of though.

[minimoose]

Yes, this would be nice, but to get all philosophical on you:

 

That is part of the price we have to pay for freedom.  If the Soviet Union were still around everyone would line up and get their one choice of computer and car and phone and house.  The result of having a free market and competition means that companies can exclude other companies from working with their products, and while it is frustrating, would it be better if their was only one choice?  

 

However if one company made everything you need, I still would buy from different companies because I wouldn't want one company to control my whole life.  And there is almost no chance of one company making the best of every product you need.

 

Sorry if I took this too seriously  

[JLCitadel]

Google is evil. I keep trying to at the very least switch from chrome to FF but chrome is just so much faster.. I'm still using 3 gmail accounts and an android phone (Nexus of all things) which would be very hard to get rid of though.

Google isn't evil, no company is. They all strive for innovation and profit.

 

Lots of people do because Google used to be the underdog. They had very little influence over what actually went on. Now they are a backbone of the internet.

 

People who think they aren't as evil are still idiots though.

I wish we could have an open-source non-profit organization just become huge and be awesome. Like Linux will become as an operating system.

If I'm not mistaken Linux isn't an operating system, it's a 'type' of operating systems which many different os variants are based upon. Or is there a core Linux build which is usable by itself?

 

Vendor lock in is extremely bad in the long run. Do people really believe google isn't as evil as microsoft or IBM were before them?

I don't believe any of the three are evil or were. & Vendor lock? Could you elaborate please

 

A good point.

Thank you 

 

Yes, this would be nice, but to get all philosophical on you:

 

That is part of the price we have to pay for freedom.  If the Soviet Union were still around everyone would line up and get their one choice of computer and car and phone and house.  The result of having a free market and competition means that companies can exclude other companies from working with their products, and while it is frustrating, would it be better if their was only one choice?  

 

However if one company made everything you need, I still would buy from different companies because I wouldn't want one company to control my whole life.  And there is almost no chance of one company making the best of every product you need.

 

Sorry if I took this too seriously

Not at all, I enjoy a serious discussion with opposing opinions, but I do believe you missed part of my point, it wasn't to have a single company doing all of those things, it was having multiple companies doing all of them.

[madcow]

Google isn't evil, no company is. They all strive for innovation and profit.

...

What world are you from? Here we have Comcast.

[minimoose]

Google isn't evil, no company is. They all strive for innovation and profit.

If I'm not mistaken Linux isn't an operating system, it's a 'type' of operating systems which many different os variants are based upon. Or is there a core Linux build which is usable by itself?

I don't believe any of the three are evil or were. & Vendor lock? Could you elaborate please

Thank you

Not at all, I enjoy a serious discussion with opposing opinions, but I do believe you missed part of my point, it wasn't to have a single company doing all of those things, it was having multiple companies doing all of them.

But one of the downsides to having a free market, is that companies don't have to work together so a BMW works with an iPhone and that works with your Nest.

[KemoKa]

If I'm not mistaken Linux isn't an operating system, it's a 'type' of operating systems which many different os variants are based upon. Or is there a core Linux build which is usable by itself?

At the moment there is no variant of Linux (as far as I know) that is just the core build, but it is an operating system by itself. When it was built by Linus Torvalds, the Linux kernel was presumably installed on some computers for testing before it was released to the Open Source community, which took it and made modifications to it which greatly improved it. In those days it manifested itself as Red Hat and Mandrake and started owning faces in the server market. Now it has dozens of variants. You probably know all this stuff, but it is just to reiterate that Linux is indeed an operating system and in theory it can run on it's own, it's just that it would be pointless to do that. It's a fully "barebones" OS. The Linux kernel was built and released by Torvalds so that people would tweak it and make it better. All the file systems, commands and background processes are all run through the Linux kernel in the exact same way for each iteration of the operating system. What you see on top are just what people have done with it.

Hope this helps

[JLCitadel]

At the moment there is no variant of Linux (as far as I know) that is just the core build, but it is an operating system by itself. When it was built by Linus Torvalds, the Linux kernel was presumably installed on some computers for testing before it was released to the Open Source community, which took it and made modifications to it which greatly improved it. In those days it manifested itself as Red Hat and Mandrake and started owning faces in the server market. Now it has dozens of variants. You probably know all this stuff, but it is just to reiterate that Linux is indeed an operating system and in theory it can run on it's own, it's just that it would be pointless to do that. It's a fully "barebones" OS. The Linux kernel was built and released by Torvalds so that people would tweak it and make it better. All the file systems, commands and background processes are all run through the Linux kernel in the exact same way for each iteration of the operating system. What you see on top are just what people have done with it.

Hope this helps

 

Indeed it does, thanks for the clarification. I'm actually very unfamiliar with Linux. Haven't ever wanted to try learning about it because of time and lack of a computer to experiment with it on, and at the end of the day, I most likely couldn't use it as a main os due to lack of support for things I'd need.