Choosing Closed Headphones w/ Mic - Audio Technica ATH-AG1 and Sennheiser G4ME Zero

[VMaxMuffin]

Hi all,

 

I have a pair of Astra A40s that I really like but feel I could do better. Recently one half of the top headband snapped (my fault), still work but I have a birthday soon and want to ask for some headphones. As it's a potential gift price isn't necessarily the biggest issue, but it needs to be 'reasonable' otherwise I won't get it (haha). So I'm looking for some opinions on what to buy. Here are my requirements:

 

1. Must be fully over ear

2. Must have integrated microphone (I'd prefer not to go down the mod mic route, and my parents definitely would prefer integrated). I'd also prefer if the microphone is retractable/removable however I can deal with that not being the case.

3. Closed back (my A40s are open but I've decided I'd like to go with closed back)

4. Must have good audio for music as well as gaming (I'm not an 'audiophile' but I do enjoy my music better with good quality headphones)

5. Must have phone/laptop compatibility for occassional use.

6. Preferably can fold or something for portability

7. Most importantly - must be comfortable

 

So far my searches have led to the Audio Technica ATH-AG1 ($279) and Sennheiser G4ME Zero ($339, currently on special). This is my understanding of the two products, correct me if I'm wrong:

1. The Sennheisers are more comfortable (Linus' review of the Audio Technicas showed their ergonomics to be particularly bad over due to the weird headband design)

2. The Audio Technicas sound slightly better

3. The Audio Technicas are much, much easier to drive (50Ω vs 150Ω) - and therefore I would NEED to get an amp for the Sennheisers to sound good (whereas for the Audio Technicas I could advance the rest of my sound setup in the future, and for now I would still have good quality audio).

4. The mic implementation (talking about ergonomics/looks, not quality) is better on the Sennheisers, with lift to mute etc.

5. The Sennheisers have an onboard volume wheel (something I like), which the Audio Technicas don't.

 

Please recommend any other headphones that you think would be good.

 

All in all, I prefer the Sennheiser G4ME Zeros, however I'm worried about their very high impedance of 150Ω and the need for an Amp to drive them - especially because I would want the option of using them on the go with a laptop or phone. If this is true, then I'd need to consider recommending an amp. I want an amp that I can use with my iPhone on the go (although this may become an HTC One M8 in the future, so something with compatibility for both is ideal), but also with my PC (until I get a proper desktop amp at some point - if I even need it). I've seen a couple of options, some are just amps and some are DACs and amps. How necessary is the DAC part? Any suggestions? Here are the ones I've found:

 

1. Fiio E11K Kilimanjaro2 Amp ($79.99) - Most affordable, has everything I need (assuming it can handle the 150Ω), and I like that it is portable with a battery life up to 16hrs and USB recharging.

2. Fiio E12 Mont Blanc Amp ($129.00) - More expensive, probably a better amp - but also has a shorter battery life (?)

3. Fiio E07K Andes DAC + Amp ($99.00) - Between the first two, includes a DAC and a very long battery life of up to 80(!) hours. However, it doesn't state any phone compatibility 

4. Fiio E17 Alpen DAC + Amp ($139.00) - Most expensive, also includes a DAC and has a shorter battery life than the E07K. Also doesn't state phone compatibility.

 

Out of these, which would work best for use with my phone, and which would work best for use with my desktop? Also, if you have any other suggestions readily available in Australia, let me know.

 

Thanks for reading my long post, I'll appreciate any help I can get.

 

P.S. I'm in Australia. I'd prefer to have availability in a retail shop in my hometown (Adelaide), however this is pretty unrealistic (even for a city of 1.3 million, we seem to have no high end stuff available as far as I can work out) so I'd like a well respected website to buy from. PCCaseGear and Addicted to Audio are preferable. If you're in Australia, I'm open to recommendations.

[VMaxMuffin]

Anyone?

[EmoRarity]

Anyone?

Do what you want, you already have something that you shouldnt bother replacing till it breaks.

[MumboJumbo]

If you want to do your old folks a favor, ask them to buy you these instead and save them the extra cash:

 

http://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-KHX-H3CL/dp/B00JJNQG98

 

They're comfortable, closed, have a decent sound quality, and are pretty good for gaming.

[ShearMe]

I I were picking between the ATH-ADG1 and the G4me Zero, I'd choose whichever was cheapest.

[VMaxMuffin]

Do what you want, you already have something that you shouldnt bother replacing till it breaks.

 

I was thinking of passing the A40 on to my brother, you're right I wouldn't bother replacing it unless it was properly broken.

 

 

If you want to do your old folks a favor, ask them to buy you these instead and save them the extra cash:

 

http://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-KHX-H3CL/dp/B00JJNQG98

 

They're comfortable, closed, have a decent sound quality, and are pretty good for gaming.

 

Not sure if they'd be better than the A40s though? Remember that I'm only considering upgrading because the A40s have a broken headband and because they're open-backed (want to move to closed back). Otherwise I can keep using them, I've been thinking I might ask for something completely different instead...

 

New question: I just discovered these have an inline microphone, which I didn't realise before: 

 

http://audio-technica.com.au/products/ath-anc9/

 

They have noise cancelling and might actually be better for what I want (a set of headphones that I can use for gaming with a mic, but also for listening to music on my phone). Thoughts? Also, at at 100ohms, I'd probably still need the amp wouldn't I?

[EmoRarity]

I was thinking of passing the A40 on to my brother, you're right I wouldn't bother replacing it unless it was properly broken.

 

 

 

Not sure if they'd be better than the A40s though? Remember that I'm only considering upgrading because the A40s have a broken headband and because they're open-backed (want to move to closed back). Otherwise I can keep using them, I've been thinking I might ask for something completely different instead...

 

New question: I just discovered these have an inline microphone, which I didn't realise before: 

 

http://audio-technica.com.au/products/ath-anc9/

 

They have noise cancelling and might actually be better for what I want (a set of headphones that I can use for gaming with a mic, but also for listening to music on my phone). Thoughts? Also, at at 100ohms, I'd probably still need the amp wouldn't I?

HyperX Cloud is really the only headset that is a good value. Otherwise you would be better off with a separate mic and headset. 

[SSL]

I was thinking of passing the A40 on to my brother, you're right I wouldn't bother replacing it unless it was properly broken.

 

 

 

Not sure if they'd be better than the A40s though? Remember that I'm only considering upgrading because the A40s have a broken headband and because they're open-backed (want to move to closed back). Otherwise I can keep using them, I've been thinking I might ask for something completely different instead...

 

New question: I just discovered these have an inline microphone, which I didn't realise before: 

 

http://audio-technica.com.au/products/ath-anc9/

 

They have noise cancelling and might actually be better for what I want (a set of headphones that I can use for gaming with a mic, but also for listening to music on my phone). Thoughts? Also, at at 100ohms, I'd probably still need the amp wouldn't I?

 

Impedance isn't the main factor that determines how hard a headphone is to drive. So not necessarily.

[VMaxMuffin]

Impedance isn't the main factor that determines how hard a headphone is to drive. So not necessarily.

 

What is then? I've been trying to work out what makes headphones hard to drive, I thought it was mainly down to the impedance.

 

Any any case, would I benefit from using a portable amp like the Fiio E11k or portable amp/DAC like the E07K or E17?

[SSL]

What is then? I've been trying to work out what makes headphones hard to drive, I thought it was mainly down to the impedance.

 

Any any case, would I benefit from using a portable amp like the Fiio E11k or portable amp/DAC like the E07K or E17?

 

Sensitivity. You need an amp if the headphone doesn't get loud enough. That's the point of an amp, to raise the output of a DAC to reasonable listening levels.

[VMaxMuffin]

Sensitivity. You need an amp if the headphone doesn't get loud enough. That's the point of an amp, to raise the output of a DAC to reasonable listening levels.

 

Would you suggest then to just get the headphones on their own first and then get an amp later if I'm not satisfied? I see sensitivity being measured in different units by different people so it's a little confusing

Also, I understand that the point of a (good) amp can also be to eliminate some of the static you can get at high noise levels from some poorer quality onboard amps. I.e. you'd set the onboard amp to a low volume (without static) and then use the good external amp to push up the volume (this is assuming that it's just an amp, not an amp/dac combo).

 

Finally, if sensitivity is what determines whether or not you need an amp - what do the impedance values reflect? I know they basically mean how much resistance the drivers in the headphones create, but what effect does it have on your setup requirements and listening experience?

[SSL]

Would you suggest then to just get the headphones on their own first and then get an amp later if I'm not satisfied? I see sensitivity being measured in different units by different people so it's a little confusing

Also, I understand that the point of a (good) amp can also be to eliminate some of the static you can get at high noise levels from some poorer quality onboard amps. I.e. you'd set the onboard amp to a low volume (without static) and then use the good external amp to push up the volume (this is assuming that it's just an amp, not an amp/dac combo).

 

Finally, if sensitivity is what determines whether or not you need an amp - what do the impedance values reflect? I know they basically mean how much resistance the drivers in the headphones create, but what effect does it have on your setup requirements and listening experience?

 

Yes, that is almost always the best strategy, unless you know that your onboard is faulty to start with. As you say, onboard audio may suffer from static, but this is usually caused by emi from other components in the system. A separate amp/dac will be isolated and so not have static.

 

Impedance is getting into more advanced concepts. Headphone amplifiers have their own "output impedance" and general advice is that a headphone's impedance should be at least 8x the output impedance of the amp. If it isn't, there may be distortion.

 

Impedance also relates to drivability in that amplifiers put out different amounts of power depending on the impedance of the headphone. So you need to know both the sensitivity AND impedance to determine how hard a phone is to drive. Or the simple way, getting back to the first point, is to just plug them in and see if they are loud enough.

[VMaxMuffin]

Yes, that is almost always the best strategy, unless you know that your onboard is faulty to start with. As you say, onboard audio may suffer from static, but this is usually caused by emi from other components in the system. A separate amp/dac will be isolated and so not have static.

 

Impedance is getting into more advanced concepts. Headphone amplifiers have their own "output impedance" and general advice is that a headphone's impedance should be at least 8x the output impedance of the amp. If it isn't, there may be distortion.

 

Impedance also relates to drivability in that amplifiers put out different amounts of power depending on the impedance of the headphone. So you need to know both the sensitivity AND impedance to determine how hard a phone is to drive. Or the simple way, getting back to the first point, is to just plug them in and see if they are loud enough.

 

OK thanks for that! I think then I won't bother asking for an amp; if I end up needing one I'll be able to pay for it anyway.