Broadwell Speculation

[patrickjp93]

Okay, things we know so far about Broadwell:

 

• 5-Watt TDP on tablet-model chips, less than half Haswell-Y TDP.
• 24-core GT1 graphics solution (already better than the best desktop solution on Haswell)
• 5% IPC improvement
• floating point multiply/divide operations reduced from 5 cycles to 3

With these things in mind and Intel's statements on transistor efficiency, as well as the top Haswell mobile chip hitting 4GHz at a 47W TDP and top desktop chip hitting 4.4GHz, what should we the consumers be expecting from Broadwell?

 

Do we really think we can get a 4-4.2GHz 35W 5980HQ processor with 96GPU cores that will make fabless, high-performance laptops a reality for everyone but the big hardcore gaming laptops?

 

What about a 4.8 GHz desktop quad-core at the old 88W TDP?

 

Should we demand soldered chips since Haswell is known to run extremely hot due to the concentration of ALUs?

 

What should we expect in overclocking given Haswell's limitations and the inherent loss of headroom with each process shrink?

 

What should we realistically demand of Intel if we're going to upgrade from Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge, Hell maybe from the 2500k/2600k if you're still holding on to those?

[KemoKa]

Do we really think we can get a 4-4.2GHz 35W 5980HQ processor with 96GPU cores that will make fabless, high-performance laptops a reality for everyone but the big hardcore gaming laptops?

Given that the mobile Kaveri APUs are going to be released soon, no. Those are going to be monsters. 512 stream processors, true quad core, and max RAM support of 2133MHz.

On a laptop. That's better than most desktops. That's almost as good, in fact, as having a 7770 in your laptop.

Sorry, but in terms of integrated graphics... Intel should have done what AMD did before AMD did it, but now the whole concept of APUs is probably guarded by walls of steel and patent forms. Also, there's the matter of AMD gaining ATi... I don't think Intel and Nvidia are willing to get that far into bed with each other.

[patrickjp93]

Given that the mobile Kaveri APUs are going to be released soon, no. Those are going to be monsters. 512 stream processors, true quad core, and max RAM support of 2133MHz.

On a laptop. That's better than most desktops. That's almost as good, in fact, as having a 7770 in your laptop.

Sorry, but in terms of integrated graphics... Intel should have done what AMD did before AMD did it, but now the whole concept of APUs is probably guarded by walls of steel and patent forms. Also, there's the matter of AMD gaining ATi... I don't think Intel and Nvidia are willing to get that far into bed with each other.

The top-end Broadwell solution (96 EUs) has a 2 Teraflops compute potential right? That's more than double Kaveri's 870 Gigaflops. Intel realized it could steal market from both AMD and Nvidia and it's doing it. There's nothing AMD can patent about an APU except maybe the equal-citizen scheduling paradigm it comes up with. Unified memory was a concept long before AMD was a company, and Intel was actually the first to put GPU cores on a CPU die. Intel also has the TDP and power usage advantage in Haswell and Broadwell over Kaveri unless the mobile parts clocks are made pitifully low. Not to mention Intel has the bandwidth advantage over AMD with a much larger cache, and 128MB of eDRAM on the top-end solutions which it will replicate in Iris Pro 6200. Now, AMD does have a GCN driver advantage over Intel, but that won't save them if Intel goes full throttle on its graphics, which it has already stated it will.

 

With Skylake Intel puts unified memory on its processors. With Skylake Intel catches up in heterogeneous design to AMD assuming it launches on time right before Carrizo is due. Carrizo doesn't have a process shrink unless AMD delays it, meaning it's on the same 28nm process and the same die size as Kaveri with minor architectural tweaks (Excavator is still mostly bulldozer which is based on Vishera). Intel will pull ahead of AMD soon on iGPU. AMD needs to get a lot of software makers developing for HSA quickly if it doesn't want to lose the last edge it may ever have against Intel in x86 (ARM vs. x86 being a whole other ballgame).

[Guest]

Fuck Broadwell, Conroe all the way!

[patrickjp93]

Fuck Broadwell, Conroe all the way!

Conroe? How far back is that lol?

[Guest]

Conroe? How far back is that lol?

As far back as my compter wants it to be.

 

Thank you very much

[patrickjp93]

As far back as my compter wants it to be.

 

Thank you very much

Dang, that's older than the Q6600 my dad just retired lol!

[Guest]

Dang, that's older than the Q6600 my dad just retired lol!

My Core 2 Duo is still running like a champ :lol:

[patrickjp93]

My Core 2 Duo is still running like a champ :lol:

He wanted a lower power solution with a kick so I built him a system around the 4790k with no dGPU. He couldn't be happier.

[Guest]

He wanted a lower power solution with a kick so I built him a system around the 4790k with no dGPU. He couldn't be happier.

Hey, I'd love one too

 

But until I get some more money to spend, I'd rather not update an old system (C2D, 3GB RAM , and a GTX 760, the only good part). I'll make a whole new build (keeping the 760) within the next 6 months or so. Man, if it weren't for that 760, I would just toss it and use my MacBook all the time. It had a 9600GT with 512MB of RAM, and this is of course a huge improvement.

[patrickjp93]

Hey, I'd love one too

 

But until I get some more money to spend, I'd rather not update an old system (C2D, 3GB RAM , and a GTX 760, the only good part). I'll make a whole new build (keeping the 760) within the next 6 months or so. Man, if it weren't for that 760, I would just toss it and use my MacBook all the time. It had a 9600GT with 512MB of RAM, and this is of course a huge improvement.

You're like my family: use a system until it's damn intolerable. At that point, do a fresh OS install on an SSD if there wasn't originally one present, get a better GPU if that was an issue, and keep chugging until it gets unbearable again. Rinse and repeat at least two more times.

[Deletive]

-snip-

I completely agree with you here. the only thing for graphical improvements in carrizo is Gcn2/3.0 Which won't be anything comparing to the like 40% improvement wiht broadwell and like 40-60% above that with skylake.

[Guest]

You're like my family: use a system until it's damn intolerable. At that point, do a fresh OS install on an SSD if there wasn't originally one present, get a better GPU if that was an issue, and keep chugging until it gets unbearable again. Rinse and repeat at least two more times.

Well the GPU was a necessity, but I don't have money for a new PC- otherwise I would have upgraded ages ago. It was the family PC, but I bought the 760, and am now using it.

[patrickjp93]

Well the GPU was a necessity, but I don't have money for a new PC- otherwise I would have upgraded ages ago. It was the family PC, but I bought the 760, and am now using it.

Yeah, I keep forgetting dropping $1500 on a PC per person to last 7 years is nothing to my family, but not everyone is well off. We donated all of our components except the water cooling motor, tubes, and radiator to a tech charity for underprivileged kids. We figure the copper in the block they can sell for cash.

[rambi36]

I'm gonna wait till Skylake comes out and DDR4 memory is more mainstream to upgrade my haswell system

[KemoKa]

The top-end Broadwell solution (96 EUs) has a 2 Teraflops compute potential right? That's more than double Kaveri's 870 Gigaflops. Intel realized it could steal market from both AMD and Nvidia and it's doing it. There's nothing AMD can patent about an APU except maybe the equal-citizen scheduling paradigm it comes up with. Unified memory was a concept long before AMD was a company, and Intel was actually the first to put GPU cores on a CPU die. Intel also has the TDP and power usage advantage in Haswell and Broadwell over Kaveri unless the mobile parts clocks are made pitifully low. Not to mention Intel has the bandwidth advantage over AMD with a much larger cache, and 128MB of eDRAM on the top-end solutions which it will replicate in Iris Pro 6200. Now, AMD does have a GCN driver advantage over Intel, but that won't save them if Intel goes full throttle on its graphics, which it has already stated it will.

 

With Skylake Intel puts unified memory on its processors. With Skylake Intel catches up in heterogeneous design to AMD assuming it launches on time right before Carrizo is due. Carrizo doesn't have a process shrink unless AMD delays it, meaning it's on the same 28nm process and the same die size as Kaveri with minor architectural tweaks (Excavator is still mostly bulldozer which is based on Vishera). Intel will pull ahead of AMD soon on iGPU. AMD needs to get a lot of software makers developing for HSA quickly if it doesn't want to lose the last edge it may ever have against Intel in x86 (ARM vs. x86 being a whole other ballgame).

I stand corrected...

let's hope they kick ass then...