Microsoft takes Samsung to court over Android royalties

[AlexGoesHigh]

in a nutshell, samsung got mad because MS owns a phone hardware company and said their patents were not valid anymore, we know by now MS makes 2 billion dollars each years for this licensing alone and make its entertainment division look profitable to their shareholders, since that where the money goes, now i'm not saying samsung is right that it should stop paying MS money, but bringing the nokia acquisition as an excuse is really lame, here are the details

 

Microsoft wants a judge to decide whether its recent Nokia acquisition should allow Samsung to stop handing over royalties on Android devices. Since 2011, Samsung has been paying out per-device royalties to Microsoft for every Android product it sells. Microsoft has struck similar deals with many Android OEMs, and it's been a lucrative endeavor. But apparently late last year, the dominant Android manufacturer decided it was tired of giving Microsoft money.

 

"After spending months trying to resolve our disagreement, Samsung has made clear in a series of letters and discussions that we have a fundamental disagreement as to the meaning of our contract," wrote David Howard, Microsoft corporate vice president, in a blog post today. Microsoft says Samsung's incredible rise in the smartphone market is likely the reason it no longer wants to pay up. "Samsung predicted it would be successful, but no one imagined their Android smartphone sales would increase this much," wrote Howard.

 

But Samsung insists it walked away because of Microsoft's buyout of Nokia. Redmond acquiring its own handset business invalidated the cross-license IP agreement, according to Samsung. Microsoft obviously disagrees, and it's hoping a judge will affirm its belief that the deal still stands and remains legally binding. "Curiously, Samsung did not ask the court to decide whether the Nokia acquisition invalidated its contract with Microsoft, likely because it knew its position was meritless," Howard said. Microsoft says it "values and respects" its longtime relationship with Samsung and doesn't expect this court battle to damage it. "We are simply asking the court to settle our disagreement, and we are confident the contract will be enforced," said Howard.

also the patents MS licensed leaked a couple of month back, here they are if want to check them, its a direct download link FYI: http://images.mofcom.gov.cn/pep/201404/20140408143159274.docx

 

Sauce: The Verge

[Askew]

Microsoft is playing Apple now?

[TheSLSAMG]

Samsung is playing Apple now?

Microsoft is?

 

I have no idea. These patent wars are confusing.

[AlexGoesHigh]

Samsung is playing Apple now?

i thought they were doing that a long time ago

[DoubleY]

Damn you Samsung! Just today I was thinking of how good of a company they are with their awesome products.

[TheSLSAMG]

Damn you Samsung! Just today I was thinking of how good of a company they are with their awesome products.

They're Apple-tier douchey.

 

They have been like this for years.

[Askew]

Microsoft is?

 

I have no idea. These patent wars are confusing.

 

 

i thought they were doing that a long time ago

 

yeah I got them the wrong way around lol I've edited it now, I win all of the fails.

[Nineshadow]

Wait...Microsoft is getting money from all Android manufacturers,not just Google?

The more you know...

[dalekphalm]

 

in a nutshell, samsung got mad because MS owns a phone hardware company and said their patents were not valid anymore, we know by now MS makes 2 billion dollars each years for this licensing alone and make its entertainment division look profitable to their shareholders, since that where the money goes, now i'm not saying samsung is right that it should stop paying MS money, but bringing the nokia acquisition as an excuse is really lame, here are the details

also the patents MS licensed leaked a couple of month back, here they are if want to check them, its a direct download link FYI: http://images.mofcom.gov.cn/pep/201404/20140408143159274.docx

 

Sauce: The Verge

 

I find this hilarious... Just because Microsoft bought a handset manufacturer in NO WAY invalidates their incredibly vast IP/Patent holdings. You may not like Microsoft, but they own a lot of patents, either through their own extensive R&D, or through acquisition of companies that hold those patents.

 

And I can't see a clause in their cross-patent deal that says if MS buys a phone maker the deal is off. Especially since those patents have to do with Android - the thing that Nokia Mobile doesn't generally work with anyway

 

Has anyone here actually read the License Deal? I'd be curious to see if Samsung's position has any merit (I doubt it), but I don't feel like wading through pages of legal docs

[dalekphalm]

Wait...Microsoft is getting money from all Android manufacturers,not just Google?

The more you know...

Hmmm?

 

There is only one "Android" "manufacturer". That is Google. The other companies manufacture the smartphones and then license Android from Google. The Patents Microsoft owns has to deal with patented technology inside Android, so therefore any smartphone manufacturer who uses Android has to pay Microsoft a cut, because they're using Microsoft's patented technology.

 

At least that's a very simplified explanation of it.

[Nineshadow]

Hmmm?

 

There is only one "Android" "manufacturer". That is Google. The other companies manufacture the smartphones and then license Android from Google. The Patents Microsoft owns has to deal with patented technology inside Android, so therefore any smartphone manufacturer who uses Android has to pay Microsoft a cut, because they're using Microsoft's patented technology.

 

At least that's a very simplified explanation of it.

Then it would be Google's job for manufacturers to pay Microsoft.

[dalekphalm]

Then it would be Google's job for manufacturers to pay Microsoft.

*shrugs* I'm really not sure of the legalities and fine points of it, not being a patent lawyer. It could also be hardware implementations that Microsoft has Patents on as well, which would make more sense (Say some sort of specific hardware implementation that is used on all Android phones?).

[Gunzkewl]

Then it would be Google's job for manufacturers to pay Microsoft.

 

Google doesn't put them on a device and sell it.. That's why one of the reasons Google made Android opensource to avoid being sued.

[Nineshadow]

Google doesn't put them on a device and sell it.. That's why one of the reasons Google made Android opensource to avoid being sued.

My question is...Does Microsoft get money for Android,as a piece of software,or for the hardware in Android phones?

[Victorious Secret]

This is what MS has already been doing. They hold valid patents that Google avoids paying (since they don't actually make anything) but the OEMs have to cough up because they are. Stupid Samsung. Just because MS bought Nokia doesn't mean you get to stop paying. You still have to pay. The contract will likely be upheld and MS will continue making bank off of patents they legally hold and rightfully enforce. 

 

Its a dirty system, but you can't get mad when people actually decide to play the game and use it to help themselves. Business first, and businesses on this level exist to make money, not to make world peace. Anyone can abuse it while it lasts, it just so happens that MS has one of the largest war chests in the game. 

[RH00D]

People that think Microsoft is the bad guy here really need to take a step back understand the full picture. I'll try to break it down simply.

 

1. Microsoft holds patents covering certain technologies.

2. Google has used the technologies covered by these patents in Android.

3. Samsung sells a phone with Android and makes money.

4. Microsoft has 2 options.

a] Sue Samsung to stop selling those phones/remove the technology used.

b] Create licensing contracts that allows Samsung to use the technology and compensate Microsoft with monetary payment.

 

Option A is the Apple approach and is how the patent system is abused. Apple used this method to try to systematicly prevent Samsung from being competitive with Apple.

Option B is exactly how the patent system is supposed to work and is the approach Microsoft is using.

 

The only arguement against Microsoft is if the patents should not be valid as a patent due to it being standards-essential or so nonsensical that it shouldn't be allowed such as Apple's "rounded-edges" patents.

[Gunzkewl]

My question is...Does Microsoft get money for Android,as a piece of software,or for the hardware in Android phones?

Here is a list of the 310 patents that are being license

http://www.zdnet.com/310-microsoft-patents-used-in-android-licensing-agreements-revealed-by-chinese-gov-7000030564/

[Guest]

Damn you Samsung! Just today I was thinking of how good of a company they are with their awesome products.

Not their phones though! Hideous!

TV's and monitors and such are fine from Samsung.

[Akolyte]

All this crap is far too confusing for me.

 

Over here you can't sue anyone...  I like it here. 

[DoubleY]

Not their phones though! Hideous!

TV's and monitors and such are fine from Samsung.

My dad has the Galaxy S5 and I think it looks very nice. 

[Guest]

My dad has the Galaxy S5 and I think it looks very nice. 

Bandaid!

The M8 looks nice imo.

[ijKs Snow]

Fact is, Android is a orgy fest right now, which is why Samsung teamed up with Intel to create Tizen in the first place.

 

From MS point of view, it's "hey we bought Nokia which means we own the patents, so cough it up."

 

From Samsung's point of view it's "hey we use Android so we pay our royalties to Google."

 

From Google's point of view it's "Oh man, we created an OS that infringes on like 12 company's patents. Let's make it open-source and throw it out on the market, and when the patents expire we can start closing doors one by one."

 

No one is right, no one is wrong. Everyone's just drunk on their own kool-aid, ended up in a room to have a orgy, and now everyone's regretting.