question about the future.

[Trik'Stari]

So, I have a lot of questions. Firstly, I am wondering how future proof a gigabyte z97 soc force is. Secondly I would ask when we as gamers can expect 4k graphics to become common, I know things like that are pretty much up in the air, but still, a general guess from those with more knowledge than me will be appreciated. My main concern is that I just got my z97 board, and I'm just wondering how long I can expect that to keep up with the advance in games, it has a crap ton of room for expansion, and I must say looks amazing up close.(cant decide if I should wait for Devils Canyon or get something like an i3690 and then upgrade to DC.

 

But there's a catch. I recently read about the upcoming release of ddr4 memory, And I cant help but wonder what kind of advancements games will have made by then. Not to mention broadwell, which I understand will mainly be about mobiles (so whats the point of them in a desktop?). Finally, I doubt its even worth asking about something like new quantum computing and all that jazz, but still speculation appreciated.

 

Basically, when could we expect any of these things to be available, I just got into system building and I find myself confused about the whole damned thing. For instance, more than one pcie3.0 is seemingly common on intel motherboards (judging by newegg, but then again they are wrong a lot) and yet seemingly non existent except on amd motherboards except for 1 asus board and 1 msi board, and then, I am told that pcie2.0 is good enough for modern gaming, yet every build I see usually involves pcie3.0 boards. its just all so bloody confusing.

 

Let the wild speculation begin!

[Shd0w2]

fuuuutureeeee to answer your question, nothings futureproof and everything that may seem like its futureproof,, iisn't, just look back at the space ships, our phones are like 1million times better than those, and that was only 40 something years ago.

[orangecat]

No one can say for sure.

[Bagmup]

You'll be able to put a broadwell cpu into your Z97, so don't worry about the future...it'll give you ulcers

[Opcode]

fuuuutureeeee to answer your question, nothings futureproof and everything that may seem like its futureproof,, iisn't, just look back at the space ships, our phones are like 1million times better than those, and that was only 40 something years ago.

Buying a Intel 9 series board is in fact "future proofing" as it's designed for a chip that's not expected to be on the market until Christmas. Which will be the latest generation from Intel at that time as well, so future proofing does exist. It's the "buy a FX-8350 it haz eight cores so it will last a long time as programz become more optimized fer threading" that is using the term loosely.

[deathjester]

So, I have a lot of questions. Firstly, I am wondering how future proof a gigabyte z97 soc force is. Secondly I would ask when we as gamers can expect 4k graphics to become common, I know things like that are pretty much up in the air, but still, a general guess from those with more knowledge than me will be appreciated. My main concern is that I just got my z97 board, and I'm just wondering how long I can expect that to keep up with the advance in games, it has a crap ton of room for expansion, and I must say looks amazing up close.(cant decide if I should wait for Devils Canyon or get something like an i3690 and then upgrade to DC.

 

But there's a catch. I recently read about the upcoming release of ddr4 memory, And I cant help but wonder what kind of advancements games will have made by then. Not to mention broadwell, which I understand will mainly be about mobiles (so whats the point of them in a desktop?). Finally, I doubt its even worth asking about something like new quantum computing and all that jazz, but still speculation appreciated.

 

Basically, when could we expect any of these things to be available, I just got into system building and I find myself confused about the whole damned thing. For instance, more than one pcie3.0 is seemingly common on intel motherboards (judging by newegg, but then again they are wrong a lot) and yet seemingly non existent except on amd motherboards except for 1 asus board and 1 msi board, and then, I am told that pcie2.0 is good enough for modern gaming, yet every build I see usually involves pcie3.0 boards. its just all so bloody confusing.

 

Let the wild speculation begin!

 

Devil's Canyon might be the first to chip to really blow away a Sandy when OC is considered (we will see). Broadwell die shrink may mean a lot more heat and may be slower than the Devil's Canyon chip on a OC.Sandy through Haswell are actually really close when OC is considered, so I wouldn't worry too much about CPU. Add to that a low level API will help a CPU a lot. There is a reason many people on this forum and people like Slick haven't upgraded from their Sandy Bridge K. Why would they? 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlC81MjwelBgdEZNV3l6aHl1eUNwSUR4Rml0MXMzN1E&usp=sharing#gid=1

 

GPU's? They go forward. DirectX 12 GPU's will have new effects. Will we see those effects in games any time soon? Not really. Holiday 2015 is when the first DX 12 game is supposed to release and no developer is going to make a game for only DX 12 cards, especially with console GPU's being DX 11.x and OpenGL 4.x. Trying to future proof yourself on GPU's is a losing battle. Get the best GPU you can and just accept that it is always going to move forward. It doesn't mean you can't play games, but that is just the way it is.

 

DDR4? Latency I have seen blows and it probably will for years. There is no advantage if latency is lower at the same clock speed and we see hardly any difference between 1600 ram cl9 and 2133 cl10. Initial DDR4 will prob be SLOWER in games, and they are focusing yields on ECC probably anyways. The cost is stupid and for gaming it will most likely be inferior for quite some time. 

 

Haswell -E is exciting for non gaming budget workstations and rich gamers, cus why not. Devils Canyon is exciting for gaming machines. Broadwell is exciting for laptops and people that don't overclock. GTX 800 series might be worth waiting for if you have a decent graphics setup already and can wait til then, if you are planning to go all out since it might have DX 12 on it. Pretty much sums it up. Maybe go mid end now, and all out later on two 8xx cards? 

 

Quantum computing? See controversy It has been benchmarked and it is utter crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems

 

"Other independent researchers found that different software packages running on a single core of a desktop computer can solve those same problems as fast or faster than D-Wave's computers (at least 12,000 times faster for Quadratic Assignment problems, and between 1 and 50 times faster for Quadratic Unconstrained Binary Optimization problems)."

 

The CPU in that benchmark against the D-Wave was a stock SINGLE CORE of a Sandy Bridge I7 Hexa. Some professors have questioned whether the thing is just a scam to begin with. Something you can't test for yourself, only a few people have access to, and when benchmarked it performs like garbage. 

 

We aren't getting Star Trek computers any time soon and Nvidia Pascal will prob be 160 percent of current 780ti. Will prob come out in late 2016-2017?  MAYBE 4 k Crysis 3/BF4 will be available on one card (that isn't dual gpu) in 2018-20?  Nvidia has talked stacking, graphite has been talked about. We are mostly in theory mode right now. Right now CPU can be a bottleneck, on a low level API not so much, then we will be waiting on GPU's. 

 

Buy your computer. Stick to a budget. You will be saving so much money on games vs a console that GPU upgrades aren't a problem. Maybe wait for Devil's canyon. Other than that? You are pretty much safe for years on z97. Hell Sandy K's will still be relevant and that chip is from 2011?

[Trik'Stari]

Now that's what I'm talking about @deathjester

 

Well its good to know a lot of this things. I was mainly wondering what the future timeline might be as far as developments are going. Also, Do we have any idea when the game devs might start doing 4k? I'm guessing they will when 4k becomes possible on the cash equivalent of a gtx 650 or there abouts. (just wondering, is two gtx 660's enough for 4k? I doubt it. If not, what is it capable of? I have 1, but plan on getting a better monitor soon, and don't know whether or not to go 1080 @144hz or up my resolution and get stuck at 60hz. I always love a good hypothetical discussion, and I would have thought quantum computing would be better (I may be confusing two different things, I was told an advancement replacing binary with a possible three digit programming language was quantum computing, and then something about how they shrunk the size of a bit, idk but still go team?)

 

I just want to be able to maintain my smugness over console players for a long time lol. That and I love to hear about what's coming, cant wait to see the 800 series boards, although I'll be sad because I want two 780's at the moment (I think the reference cards look badass...... I just like that mechanical look they have) and I hope they make the 800's look even more badass.

[deathjester]

Now that's what I'm talking about @deathjester

 

Well its good to know a lot of this things. I was mainly wondering what the future timeline might be as far as developments are going. Also, Do we have any idea when the game devs might start doing 4k? I'm guessing they will when 4k becomes possible on the cash equivalent of a gtx 650 or there abouts. (just wondering, is two gtx 660's enough for 4k? I doubt it. If not, what is it capable of? I have 1, but plan on getting a better monitor soon, and don't know whether or not to go 1080 @144hz or up my resolution and get stuck at 60hz. I always love a good hypothetical discussion, and I would have thought quantum computing would be better (I may be confusing two different things, I was told an advancement replacing binary with a possible three digit programming language was quantum computing, and then something about how they shrunk the size of a bit, idk but still go team?)

 

I just want to be able to maintain my smugness over console players for a long time lol. That and I love to hear about what's coming, cant wait to see the 800 series boards, although I'll be sad because I want two 780's at the moment (I think the reference cards look badass...... I just like that mechanical look they have) and I hope they make the 800's look even more badass.

 

You can do 4k now. Google neogaf gedosato and or look up LTT's video on downsampling. Hell you can do 8 k on the Mass Effect series. Downsampling means you are pretty much just limited by GPU's. Even my GTX 770 can come close to playable 4k in games like Dark Soul's II.

 

GTX 660's? Nah. Two r9 290's would be cheapest way to get 4 k atm in newer games. Watchdogs? Impossible because we are on a garbage API as far as VRAM with no sharing memory between system/vram (DX 12  will fix that). You would prob need Titan Black's or the new 780ti 6 GB's to really play Watch Dog's at 4k and have great FPS. The game is just stuck between a new API while using the old Direct X and in addition has zero optimization for the PC. Even then? The game looks mediocre even at 4k.  

 

http://www.hwcompare.com/

 

^ Decent site to compare GPU's. Put two GPU's in and click compare. Look at texel rate and Pixel rate. For fun put up your GTX 660 against a 7790 and a 7770 which is what PS4 and Xbox One are sporting as far as TFLOPS/GPU power.

Here is the GTX 660 vs a PS4.

http://www.hwcompare.com/14291/geforce-gtx-660-vs-radeon-hd-7790/

 

Now I will say one thing. I would WAIT before buying a an expensive monitor. Why? Because we have freesync becoming standard and 4k monitors aren't IPS yet. I would maybe use an existing TV or get a cheap little IPS like mine. I think my Dell 23 inch IPS was like 140 bucks? 

 

Freesync is like a free Gsync. Basically FPS variances will be a lot smoother. Or you could go 4 k Gsync IPS when they come out (gonna be hella expensive at release if they come out), or if FPS is more important than image quality you could go gsync now.  Your GTX 660 is fine for 1080p gaming atm though. Might not get Ultra in many games, but you could make it to 8xx's and play at 1080p just fine.

 

So yeah, we have new GPU's coming in the next few years that are exciting, we have a new DX standard coming, we have monitors coming which will rock. Z97 and a I5 K? You are fine for gaming. You can stick that GTX 660 in there now, upgrade it later. If you plan to rock two big GPU's later get a decent power supply. You will be set for a long time at whatever res/GPU power you want to throw at it. 

 

If you want to do crazy downsampling now or the GTX 660 isn't doing it? Maybe grab one big GPU now, and another later, or wait. All up to you. We are pretty much in a transition period on monitors though. What is 900 today might be 300 in a few months or a year and the initial 4k's aren't IPs or Gsync or freesync. 

 

Only consider I7 if you stream alot/record gameplay a lot or render a lot.

[Trik'Stari]

That's a lot to consider. I just sent my z97 soc force back to newegg for RMA this morning, should be there in three days. I just gotta figure out what board to get. I liked the look of the soc force but it was just too much towards overclocking and not enough towards gaming, which is what I want. I think right now I'll just let my money grow a bit until I can afford to get the new parts all at once (got plenty of parts running right now that will be used again)