SECRET LAB - Chairs too tall? Known defect being used to sell more accessories?

[imnotdavid]

As this point, Secretlab is straight up gaslighting me in our e-mails. 

 

First of all, as posted earlier in this thread, they asked me for a video of me pressing with my hand and demonstrating the hardness of the chair.  They then essentially said, "unfortunately we weren't able to look at the video, but somehow based on not viewing the video, we can tell the hardness of the chair is just fine."

 

They've now asked for my weight, presumably to see if I fall under the 175-pound recommendation for an XL.  They already know I'm 5'11", which is the beginning of the XL range, so the weight is their remaining shot to prove I made a mistake rather than their size guide being inaccurate.

 

I let them know that my weight fluctuates between 190-200 pounds.  Again, keeping in mind their size guide states that 5'11 at 175 pounds and up is for XL, this is no joke their response.  If this is not gaslighting, I don't know what is:

 

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

No.  I'm confused as to how you got that from my post.  I'm not saying they lied about the size.  I'm granting the size is exactly as stated. 

Therefore, you knew exactly whether it suits or not before buying: the height is the height, and if 18.1'' is too tall for you, then it was too tall from the get-go, that's all there is to it. Whether the seat is hard or soft is a different matter, but size-wise there is no basis to say you were mislead. They may have a vague recommendation based on very broad height ranges, but in the end the exact measure is given, so you could check exactly whether that suited you in particular (and not "generic people from this height to this height, more or less").

[imnotdavid]

19 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Therefore, you knew exactly whether it suits or not before buying: the height is the height, and if 18.1'' is too tall for you, then it was too tall from the get-go, that's all there is to it. Whether the seat is hard or soft is a different matter, but size-wise there is no basis to say you were mislead. They may have a vague recommendation based on very broad height ranges, but in the end the exact measure is given, so you could check exactly whether that suited you in particular (and not "generic people from this height to this height, more or less").

18.1 clearly isn't too tall for me, since the chair I'm replacing is taller than the Secretlab and fits me fine.  I'm now stating this for the third time, and I suspect you will ignore it for the third time.  This demonstrates you're either incapable of following my position, or are dishonestly choosing not to.  Probably the latter, since you made a conscious decision not to quote my entire post, leaving this critical point out. You and I are definitely done here.

[DoctorNick]

1 hour ago, imnotdavid said:

18.1 clearly isn't too tall for me, since the chair I'm replacing is taller than the Secretlab and fits me fine.  I'm now stating this for the third time, and I suspect you will ignore it for the third time.  This demonstrates you're either incapable of following my position, or are dishonestly choosing not to.  Probably the latter, since you made a conscious decision not to quote my entire post, leaving this critical point out. You and I are definitely done here.

Have you tried reaching out to secret lab to ask them for a replacement wheel base?

[Haredeenee]

12 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

As this point, Secretlab is straight up gaslighting me in our e-mails. 

 

First of all, as posted earlier in this thread, they asked me for a video of me pressing with my hand and demonstrating the hardness of the chair.  They then essentially said, "unfortunately we weren't able to look at the video, but somehow based on not viewing the video, we can tell the hardness of the chair is just fine."

 

They've now asked for my weight, presumably to see if I fall under the 175-pound recommendation for an XL.  They already know I'm 5'11", which is the beginning of the XL range, so the weight is their remaining shot to prove I made a mistake rather than their size guide being inaccurate.

 

I let them know that my weight fluctuates between 190-200 pounds.  Again, keeping in mind their size guide states that 5'11 at 175 pounds and up is for XL, this is no joke their response.  If this is not gaslighting, I don't know what is:

 

 

Lol, just like I said. 

[wanderingfool2]

16 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

I don't know if it's exactly 18.1".  Let's assume it is.  Now what?  Not sure if you noticed that whatever it is, my other chair is taller from ground to cushion and still feels fine due to the build of the chair.

Because you are equating height in part of your argument saying that the 5'11" recommendation.  Thereby your assertion is that the comfort of the chair is affected by your height; so yea specs like 18.1" is a valid point.

 

Firmness IS SUBJECTIVE and also a function of weight to surface area as well.  It's the risks you run on buying something online.

 

The reason I mentioned many things is because YOU were the one who brought up some of the conversation points; which is why I simply offer other reasonings behind it.

 

16 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

Foot rests do indicate a problem, for reasons I already mentioned.  In addition though, I found a blog section on their website about what to do if you're under 5'11" but basically really fat.  They recommend still going with the XL, and as an afterthought added that you "can consider" (two qualifiers in a row) a footrest for the "best possible experience."  Why are they just happening to make that recommendation in the same breath as recommending an XL to someone outside the recommended height range, if one of the primary points of the footrest isn't to address height issues with the chair?  The fact is, you NEED the footrest in this scenario, but Secretlab doesn't want you to find that out until you've already made the investment and now it's either the footrest or pay $200 to return the chair.  

Nope, it doesn't indicate a problem.  It simply indicates that they know people will buy foot rests.  Again, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this.  It's not like the whole iPhone thing of "you're holding it wrong", and buy a case.  Ever person's body is built different, and yes there are people like me who sets my chair height to be comfortable at my desk but means I need a foot rest.  It also is when I am relaxing at lower heights I still like having a foot rest.

 

Even at the local shop where they sell chairs they literally sell footrests as well.

 

As for the heavier set people, it runs back into what I mentioned.  Everyone sits differently and is built differently.  Heavier set people could potentially be pushing the weight limits of the lower level ones; which is why the recommendation is to go for the larger one.  Otherwise you get people like you, who weigh 285lbs and start complaining that the piston isn't strong enough or that the chair ends up creaking more.

 

Again, it's like analogy of buying clothing.  If I buy a medium shirt, and it gives measurements if I am the top range of those measurements I know it's going to be a lot more tight fitting than someone who is at the lower range (where the shirt will feel baggy).

 

The "recommend" overlaps for a reason

 

16 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

There's a word for this.  Fraud.  And I don't use that word lightly, being I'm a lawyer

You are a lawyer yet you are complaining contradictory things.  You state that the footrest due to height, but claim the 18.1" doesn't matter because you have taller chairs that fit comfortably. Your argument is bluntly an asinine one.

 

You bought a chair without testing it, it makes you sit differently and you don't agree with their padding level.  Yet the feel of how you sit in it, and padding levels are highly subjective.  So what do you claim is fraud.

 

The "recommend height" is a bogus argument if you are saying you have taller chairs.

 

I can't stress how asinine your approach really is in this case, you are calling it out for being too tall, you claim 18.1" doesn't matter because you have taller chairs, and you claim the footrest is a way to sell accessories.  Yet at that stage if you have a chair that's taller then it's not a height issue; it's a fit issue

 

The other Secret lab case in my opinion is valid, but yours just seems like buyers remorse and trying to find reasonings.

 

My "recommended shoe size is 8.5 US".  Yet I can tell you now, 70% of shoes I try on I will not like the long-term fit.  Should I now have justification because they recommended my shoe size to be 8.5...no because I recognize that my foot is wider than most and a lot of shoes won't fit the same way.

 

[Needfuldoer]

[ Thread cleaned ]

 

Personal attacks and bickering aren't helping.

 

OP, you bought a chair that's the wrong shape for you. When you're talking about chair dimensions, the lengths of your thighs and shins are a more important consideration than your overall height. Someone who's lanky could get away with a higher seat than someone with shorter limbs but a taller torso even if they're both the same height if they stood back to back. That's why bicycles are measured by inseam height. (And in general, you want to be somewhere in the middle of the adjustment range on furniture like that, not at one extreme or the other.)

 

If the SecretLab chair's seat height is the same as your old chair, and that was fine, then there must be another measurement that's different. Maybe the rake angle of the seat is more dramatic, so you're in slightly more of a squat position in it than your old chair. (This would explain the pressure you described.) Maybe it's because the foam is less compliant.

 

If you can't get a replacement base or return the chair, and support won't help you, get a foot rest and maybe even an extra cushion to put on the seat to make it softer. If you raise the back of the seat, that should take the pressure off the back of your legs. (Unfortunately the Titan doesn't have an adjustment at the front edge of the seat, like the Herman Miller Aeron does, but adding more cushion should achieve the same result.)

[nether1234]

I bought a $30 foot rest on Amazon after getting my Secretlab chair. Made a world of difference. 

[imnotdavid]

On 6/4/2024 at 4:50 PM, Needfuldoer said:

[ Thread cleaned ]

 

Personal attacks and bickering aren't helping.

 

OP, you bought a chair that's the wrong shape for you. When you're talking about chair dimensions, the lengths of your thighs and shins are a more important consideration than your overall height. Someone who's lanky could get away with a higher seat than someone with shorter limbs but a taller torso even if they're both the same height if they stood back to back. That's why bicycles are measured by inseam height. (And in general, you want to be somewhere in the middle of the adjustment range on furniture like that, not at one extreme or the other.)

 

If the SecretLab chair's seat height is the same as your old chair, and that was fine, then there must be another measurement that's different. Maybe the rake angle of the seat is more dramatic, so you're in slightly more of a squat position in it than your old chair. (This would explain the pressure you described.) Maybe it's because the foam is less compliant.

 

If you can't get a replacement base or return the chair, and support won't help you, get a foot rest and maybe even an extra cushion to put on the seat to make it softer. If you raise the back of the seat, that should take the pressure off the back of your legs. (Unfortunately the Titan doesn't have an adjustment at the front edge of the seat, like the Herman Miller Aeron does, but adding more cushion should achieve the same result.)

Thanks for the cleanup.

 

In general, I think this thread has gotten off track.  I really need to make it clear that I didn't create this thread for advice on how to fix the height issue, or for anyone to tell me whether I should or should not have known to discount Secretlab's size guide given my particular height and weight.

 

I made this thread to inform LMG and potential customers that:

 

1. The size guide is wrong;

2. It has misleading language telling people to size up when they often should not;

3. Secretlab is aware of this problem;

4. They make money off of the problem with overpriced accessories (footrests);

5. They box people into buying these accessories under threat of paying around the same price or more in shipping to return the product; and finally,

6. This seems to be a long term issue that Secretlab has no intention of correcting.

 

If folks want to ignore all of that and say "size guide not bad, your body size and reading comprehension bad" or whatever, then fine.  I've already been screwed, so this take isn't going to harm me any more than I've already been harmed.  I'm just here trying to help potential future buyers, and also keep people informed about LMG's selection of sponsors if nothing is done to address this from the LMG side.

[imnotdavid]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:39 AM, nether1234 said:

I bought a $30 foot rest on Amazon after getting my Secretlab chair. Made a world of difference. 

Curious which footrest you went with.  Would you buy it again or are there things you'd change about it?

[Haredeenee]

3 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

Thanks for the cleanup.

 

In general, I think this thread has gotten off track.  I really need to make it clear that I didn't create this thread for advice on how to fix the height issue, or for anyone to tell me whether I should or should not have known to discount Secretlab's size guide given my particular height and weight.

 

I made this thread to inform LMG and potential customers that:

 

1. The size guide is wrong;

2. It has misleading language telling people to size up when they often should not;

3. Secretlab is aware of this problem;

4. They make money off of the problem with overpriced accessories (footrests);

5. They box people into buying these accessories under threat of paying around the same price or more in shipping to return the product; and finally,

6. This seems to be a long term issue that Secretlab has no intention of correcting.

 

If folks want to ignore all of that and say "size guide not bad, your body size and reading comprehension bad" or whatever, then fine.  I've already been screwed, so this take isn't going to harm me any more than I've already been harmed.  I'm just here trying to help potential future buyers, and also keep people informed about LMG's selection of sponsors if nothing is done to address this from the LMG side.

 does SL just refuse to give you the chance to switch to a lower size

 

[imnotdavid]

16 minutes ago, Haredeenee said:

 does SL just refuse to give you the chance to switch to a lower size

 

Current status is they are telling me to try a two month break in period to see if that helps.  They have not explained what their approach will be after that. 

 

Though I imagine the issues with switching out for a smaller size, if it's even an option, will remain (1) my burden of paying for return shipping...and also (2) the potential that I don't like the shorter chair because of the rest of the reduced dimensions. 

 

I like a nice big seating area where I can sometimes put one leg up on the chair with me while I'm sitting, and I can already barely do that on the XL.  I imagine I won't be able to at all on the regular.  It's kind of the reason I bought this chair, because the size guide specifically mentioned I should size up if I'm between sizes and wanted more seating room.

 

I have not specifically asked them for a smaller chair yet.  I did ask them for one of the shorter pistons used for the regular and small sizes.  But they said the chair design is such that the shorter piston won't fit in the XL.  Because of course not...that would be too easy of a fix.

[nether1234]

12 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

Curious which footrest you went with.  Would you buy it again or are there things you'd change about it?

I ran into a similar issue with my Secretlab. I got the suggested size and my feet wouldn't go all the way to the ground. I got this one here: Amazon.com: ErgoFoam Foot Rest for Under Desk at Work Adjustable - Chiropractor-Endorsed, High-Density Foam, Velvet (Black) : Office Products looks like it's $40 now though. It's the perfect foot rest for me, I like a softer one and you can have it flat, have your feet at an angle or rock it. My wife kept stealing it from me (she had a basic hard one) so I ended up buying her one too lol 

[imnotdavid]

10 hours ago, nether1234 said:

I ran into a similar issue with my Secretlab. I got the suggested size and my feet wouldn't go all the way to the ground. I got this one here: Amazon.com: ErgoFoam Foot Rest for Under Desk at Work Adjustable - Chiropractor-Endorsed, High-Density Foam, Velvet (Black) : Office Products looks like it's $40 now though. It's the perfect foot rest for me, I like a softer one and you can have it flat, have your feet at an angle or rock it. My wife kept stealing it from me (she had a basic hard one) so I ended up buying her one too lol 

Thanks.  Just ordered one.  Been using a pillow on the floor so far.  Also ordered a seat cushion.  Man, this chair was such a waste of money.

[Haredeenee]

On 6/7/2024 at 6:34 PM, imnotdavid said:

...Man, this chair was such a waste of money.

The SL customer motto 

[imnotdavid]

On 6/7/2024 at 5:14 AM, nether1234 said:

I ran into a similar issue with my Secretlab. I got the suggested size and my feet wouldn't go all the way to the ground. I got this one here: Amazon.com: ErgoFoam Foot Rest for Under Desk at Work Adjustable - Chiropractor-Endorsed, High-Density Foam, Velvet (Black) : Office Products looks like it's $40 now though. It's the perfect foot rest for me, I like a softer one and you can have it flat, have your feet at an angle or rock it. My wife kept stealing it from me (she had a basic hard one) so I ended up buying her one too lol 

The seat cushion works pretty well.  The footrest, honestly wasn't my jam and I liked using a pillow more, so I just ordered another pillow.  Unfortunately in general the chair is still just uncomfortable.  I'll sit in it for at least a couple hours after I get home from work because I'm trying to "break it in," but by the end of the night I keep switching back to my old chair to finish out the night in something comfortable.  I'm bummed to think about how much I'm going to lose on this chair when I resell it.  

[Haredeenee]

8 minutes ago, imnotdavid said:

The seat cushion works pretty well.  The footrest, honestly wasn't my jam and I liked using a pillow more, so I just ordered another pillow.  Unfortunately in general the chair is still just uncomfortable.  I'll sit in it for at least a couple hours after I get home from work because I'm trying to "break it in," but by the end of the night I keep switching back to my old chair to finish out the night in something comfortable.  I'm bummed to think about how much I'm going to lose on this chair when I resell it.  

try to refund, the customer service is absolute ass but you can at least try 

[imnotdavid]

8 hours ago, tenalena said:

If you read my postings, you'll see that I too think they need to reimburse return shipping expenses. Regarding sizing, I will stand by my statement that it is the responsibility of the customer to consider all measures rather than relying just on a single banner that suggests "size-up if unsure to get more sitting space".

Also I'm no longer convinced that height is the sole issue with the chair.  I'm now using both a seat cushion and a footrest and my thighs are sore from the pressure on them after under 2 hours of sitting.

[Haredeenee]

14 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

Also I'm no longer convinced that height is the sole issue with the chair.  I'm now using both a seat cushion and a footrest and my thighs are sore from the pressure on them after under 2 hours of sitting.

I'd honestly try returning and get a good quality product from a decent company like herman miller. good luck with the customer service though, my issue is still not resolved after literal YEARS. 

[LogicalDrm]

15 hours ago, imnotdavid said:

I considered all measurements provided on the website so I'm not sure why you're implying I did not.  By pointing to the banner I'm merely drawing attention to the most blatant reason people are likely to wind up in my position.  But I reviewed all dimensions provided and none of them indicated the chair would be a complete travesty, which it is.

Don't feed trolls, they are misquoting my post from earlier as their own.

[DarkWaterSong]

My 2 cents (usa)...

 

I have had an Tititan Evo R for over a year.  I got an R because I am 5'8" and weigh 250, and the seat is a bit firm.  I also have a desk with a built in foot rest, so it works well for me.  Honestly the biggest issue I have is the seat slowly creeps up over time and I have to lower it every few days, but other than that it works great for me.

 

Also I do have to adjust the lumbar, but it stays in place far longer than more expensive office chairs I have owned (see $600 to $800).  Basically this chair with a foot rest (just get a cheap one) if your legs are a bit of the short side and life is good.

[Haredeenee]

4 hours ago, DarkWaterSong said:

 

 

...I have had an Tititan Evo R for over a year.  I got an R because I am 5'8" and weigh 250, and the seat is a bit firm.  I also have a desk with a built in foot rest, so it works well for me.  Honestly the biggest issue I have is the seat slowly creeps up over time and I have to lower it every few days, but other than that it works great for me...

Sounds like their cheap hydraulics are failing within a year. I'd get that fixed before it gets worse and you're out of warranty. You can attempt to contact customer service and tell them it's failing within the warranty. Be aware they may try to gaslight you into thinking you broke it somehow, and may make you try to buy it or pay for shipping. Keep referencing the warranty and show it is covered. You'll either get a new set of hydraulics that hopefully work this time, or a migraine for having to deal with their customer service. 

[GreenLeaf]

i wanted to get a chair from them so badly bit they don't sale to my region

i am stuck with some corsair shit

[Haredeenee]

2 hours ago, GreenLeaf said:

i wanted to get a chair from them so badly bit they don't sale to my region

i am stuck with some corsair shit

steelseries, herman miller, I think even razer came out with a different one. Lots of options other than shitty secret lab. 

If your corsair has problems I recommend reaching out. I've only had positive experiences with their CS 

[GreenLeaf]

12 minutes ago, Haredeenee said:

steelseries, herman miller, I think even razer came out with a different one. Lots of options other than shitty secret lab. 

If your corsair has problems I recommend reaching out. I've only had positive experiences with their CS 

I have the t3 rush