Which overkill X670E board should I get (for 7950X3D)

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, PDifolco said:

Gene is an ITX board, it'll  look ridiculous in my P600S case, nah

Will use 2 DIMMs (2x32)  anyway,  know my Ryzen

if you can get your hands on it the b650e tachyon is a really good ram oc board aswell just that its basically non existent availability wise

 

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

I don't think overclocking on the 7950x3D is a good idea unless you're delidding. Regardless of CCD configuration, CCD0 will reach thermal throttling at 4.8-4.9GHz all core.

 

I've considered delidding mine and buying the NH-D15 delid kit just to prove this point. Delidded, I suspect I'd see that 5.25GHz boost almost always, where doing bclk OCing might be worth it.

i mean delidding would help alot when the cores are already insulated by the cache then add to that garbage ihs thats too thick + 8 extra cores putting heat into that ihs

 

but im pretty sure even if you delid youll still hit thermal limit on the cache ccd much sooner than the non cache ccd because the cache itself is an insulator

 

think if you really wanted to do any sort of actual oc youd wanna chill the thing to subzero so no more thermal limits, then itd probably oc just like any other non cache ccd (5.5+), but youd have to be quite the rich nerd to also build a phase change system, i would but im not rich =p (for now atleast)

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

if you can get your hands on it the b650e tachyon is a really good ram oc board aswell just that its basically non existent availability wise

 

i mean delidding would help alot when the cores are already insulated by the cache then add to that garbage ihs thats too thick + 8 extra cores putting heat into that ihs

 

but im pretty sure even if you delid youll still hit thermal limit on the cache ccd much sooner than the non cache ccd because the cache itself is an insulator

 

think if you really wanted to do any sort of actual oc youd wanna chill the thing to subzero so no more thermal limits, then itd probably oc just like any other non cache ccd (5.5+), but youd have to be quite the rich nerd to also build a phase change system, i would but im not rich =p (for now atleast)

The NH-D15 does a pretty good job at keeping CCD1 from heat soaking the IHS to the point where it limits CCD0. Something I test here with cinebench R23. CCD0 definitely holds back CCD1's boost clocks though.

 

 

Now a days I have the CPU fan running at 80% the whole time which really helps with boost temps (my machine is in another room now with wires routed through the wall to my desk). Where I might be able to get INSANE performance if I delidded as well and had fans running full bore. Even in its current state, CCD0 regularly hits 5.25GHz boosts and CCD1 hits 5.925GHz. I wouldn't doubt if I could get all core 5.25GHz with a delid since it'll hit the thermal limit before anything. Running it 20C lower might give it the necessary voltage headroom to reach 5.25GHz all core at 150W too.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

13 minutes ago, Agall said:

The NH-D15 does a pretty good job at keeping CCD1 from heat soaking the IHS to the point where it limits CCD0. Something I test here with cinebench R23. CCD0 definitely holds back CCD1's boost clocks though.

 

 

Now a days I have the CPU fan running at 80% the whole time which really helps with boost temps (my machine is in another room now with wires routed through the wall to my desk). Where I might be able to get INSANE performance if I delidded as well and had fans running full bore. Even in its current state, CCD0 regularly hits 5.25GHz boosts and CCD1 hits 5.925GHz. I wouldn't doubt if I could get all core 5.25GHz with a delid since it'll hit the thermal limit before anything. Running it 20C lower might give it the necessary voltage headroom to reach 5.25GHz all core at 150W too.

im curious how that d15 would do against a phantom spirit here

 

sucks that am5 is gimped by the ihs and you have to delid the thing to get any decent oc and this seems to be even worse for the 8000g apus as they dont even use solder and the die is not as tall as the cpus but hey atleast those are easy to delid since the ihs just pops off instead of having to blast the thing with a heatgun not to mention cleaning the solder

 

only experience ive had delidding was with a p4 631 i degraded after doing a bios run to 5.65ghz on air (1.87v) just for shits and giggles, used a cheap razor i took off a generic shaving unit by destructively dissassembling one since theyre thin enough to slide under the ihs and since i didnt have a heatgun i did the next best thing and lit a candle then held the cpu with some pliers ontop of the flame, it worked but a corner got covered in soot and the ihs looked burnt asf, should have been able to work but die cracked probably because i had no idea how to clean the solder off and decided to use the razor to attempt to clean the solder, apparently you are supposed to use gallium or liquid metal since its indium solder

 

maybe ill try again cause i have a celeron d 351 iirc its a 65nm celeron thats all i know just sitting there for over a year cause i havent bought a board that supports 133fsb and can run 2v+ or atleast 1.8v, just bios run it into oblivion with my now much better cooler (6ghz bios run on air maybe?) then delid it

[Agall]

7 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

im curious how that d15 would do against a phantom spirit here

 

sucks that am5 is gimped by the ihs and you have to delid the thing to get any decent oc and this seems to be even worse for the 8000g apus as they dont even use solder and the die is not as tall as the cpus but hey atleast those are easy to delid since the ihs just pops off instead of having to blast the thing with a heatgun not to mention cleaning the solder

 

only experience ive had delidding was with a p4 631 i degraded after doing a bios run to 5.65ghz on air (1.87v) just for shits and giggles, used a cheap razor i took off a generic shaving unit by destructively dissassembling one since theyre thin enough to slide under the ihs and since i didnt have a heatgun i did the next best thing and lit a candle then held the cpu with some pliers ontop of the flame, it worked but a corner got covered in soot and the ihs looked burnt asf, should have been able to work but die cracked probably because i had no idea how to clean the solder off and decided to use the razor to attempt to clean the solder, apparently you are supposed to use gallium or liquid metal since its indium solder

 

maybe ill try again cause i have a celeron d 351 iirc its a 65nm celeron thats all i know just sitting there for over a year cause i havent bought a board that supports 133fsb and can run 2v+ or atleast 1.8v, just bios run it into oblivion with my now much better cooler (6ghz bios run on air maybe?) then delid it

I think the limitation of the NH-D15 actually has to do with its size. 140mm fans aren't going to have as powerful of an air column as 120mm fans, so the extra size might be lost in that.

 

I actually ordered the delid spacers from Noctua to be able to do a delid. TBH, if I mess it up, I can just use my R5 7600 and replace my TV PC's CPU with a 8700G. Then just wait for 9000 series  I already have the 7mm offset brackets for it which did help dramatically.

 

I'm bored enough to potentially kill this CPU.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, Agall said:

I'm bored enough to potentially kill this CPU.

huh i guess we have a pretty similar mindset

 

i have managed to kill 1 cpu from overclocking so far an i3 540 doing 5.2ghz bios runs at 1.85v on air and idling at 70c in bios so no shit it died, seems like 1156 is pretty fragile though compared to other old chips when ive also done 5ghz bios runs at similar voltages (1.8-1.87v) with e5000 pentiums idling at like 85c bios and those didnt die nor seem to have degraded but those were trash samples

 

and i just realized that i have never actually done any 5ghz bios runs on my golden e5400 but ive done 5ghz bios runs on a garbage e5700 and e5800 sample =p

 

its fun to overclock and tinker with no limits knowing that your hardware isnt gonna degrade or die, and if it does degrade or die you can easily replace em, exception being golden samples those will be a pain to bin for and you should probably be screwing around with your 2nd best or 3rd best instead so for now i havent done another run trying to push past 3400 ddr3 after i hit it as i dont know if im hitting bclk limit or ram limit and id rather not degrade my best w3503 to 2nd best while figuring this out

 

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

I think the limitation of the NH-D15 actually has to do with its size. 140mm fans aren't going to have as powerful of an air column as 120mm fans, so the extra size might be lost in that

i guess 140 is better for airflow but 120 for static pressure? i have heard that putting p12s on a d15 can actually help performance though i have my doubts on that

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

huh i guess we have a pretty similar mindset

 

i have managed to kill 1 cpu from overclocking so far an i3 540 doing 5.2ghz bios runs at 1.85v on air and idling at 70c in bios so no shit it died, seems like 1156 is pretty fragile though compared to other old chips when ive also done 5ghz bios runs at similar voltages (1.8-1.87v) with e5000 pentiums idling at like 85c bios and those didnt die nor seem to have degraded but those were trash samples

 

and i just realized that i have never actually done any 5ghz bios runs on my golden e5400 but ive done 5ghz bios runs on a garbage e5700 and e5800 sample =p

 

its fun to overclock and tinker with no limits knowing that your hardware isnt gonna degrade or die, and if it does degrade or die you can easily replace em, exception being golden samples those will be a pain to bin for and you should probably be screwing around with your 2nd best or 3rd best instead so for now i havent done another run trying to push past 3400 ddr3 after i hit it as i dont know if im hitting bclk limit or ram limit and id rather not degrade my best w3503 to 2nd best while figuring this out

 

i guess 140 is better for airflow but 120 for static pressure? i have heard that putting p12s on a d15 can actually help performance though i have my doubts on that

I still have the i7 4820k that my X79 EVGA Dark killed when a mosfet burnt up. Wasn't doing any crazy overclocking to kill it, so defect I guess. It was dead when I got a replacement motherboard, so I ended up upgrading to the 4930k.

 

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-4930K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. RAMPAGE IV GENE (3dmark.com) which was #47 on 3Dmark HoF back in August 2014.

 

I also bought the delid kit, which includes a contact frame and 1g of LM. I plan to razor blade most of it off and use LM to get the die shiny. Probably won't use it for the actual thermal interface though, I'd rather use a quality paste.

 

Not to derail this thread enough though, with the 7950x3D, PBO2 and CPPC preferred cores to 'cache' is really all that's necessary. The CPU under normal gaming load will only draw 45W, which is only like 5W more than the 7800x3D or a down configured 7950x3D to 8+0. So, discussions around motherboard VRM and stuff don't seem that useful when its using like half the TDP of a 7950x. Even then, the 7950x I have is 105W TDP limited because it only loses like 10% performance for about half the maximum power draw.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

13 minutes ago, Agall said:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-4930K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. RAMPAGE IV GENE (3dmark.com) which was #47 on 3Dmark HoF back in August 2014

in august of 2014 i was enjoying my life as a 1st grader only like a month after elementary started (around july)

 

damn i cant belive 2014 was 10 years ago

 

18 minutes ago, Agall said:

Not to derail this thread enough though, with the 7950x3D, PBO2 and CPPC preferred cores to 'cache' is really all that's necessary. The CPU under normal gaming load will only draw 45W, which is only like 5W more than the 7800x3D or a down configured 7950x3D to 8+0. So, discussions around motherboard VRM and stuff don't seem that useful when its using like half the TDP of a 7950x. Even then, the 7950x I have is 105W TDP limited because it only loses like 10% performance for about half the maximum power draw.

i mean even the b650m hdv will do just fine for a 7950x so upgrading the board for the sake of vrms is just stupid

 

there are trash lowend b650 (m-b, m-p, m-h, m-k, s2h, etc.) but those are usually not worth it just by pricing alone and then you look at the i/o then the woefully inadequate vrm that cant even hold a candle to that of the b650m hdvs which is a cheap "entry" level board

[Agall]

29 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

in august of 2014 i was enjoying my life as a 1st grader only like a month after elementary started (around july)

 

damn i cant belive 2014 was 10 years ago

 

i mean even the b650m hdv will do just fine for a 7950x so upgrading the board for the sake of vrms is just stupid

 

there are trash lowend b650 (m-b, m-p, m-h, m-k, s2h, etc.) but those are usually not worth it just by pricing alone and then you look at the i/o then the woefully inadequate vrm that cant even hold a candle to that of the b650m hdvs which is a cheap "entry" level board

I/O has come to matter the most for me since I do run a lot of systems without dGPUs and require triple outputs. Same goes for etherent and USB capabilities. That's where I think the X670e Creator/Pro Art is the best with its I/O, including the 60W type-c header.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

11 hours ago, Agall said:

I/O has come to matter the most for me since I do run a lot of systems without dGPUs and require triple outputs. Same goes for etherent and USB capabilities. That's where I think the X670e Creator/Pro Art is the best with its I/O, including the 60W type-c header.

im curious if the usbc on mobos can output display with the igpu or not

[StarsMars]

22 hours ago, PDifolco said:

Ok thanks mates, but out of 5 replies I got 3 different choices and 2 telling me I don't need X670E (which I knew already, it's like why buying a Mercedes where a Dacia works too ?  )

 

Get a Biostar A620MP-E PRO and put waifu stickers on it.

 

The ones you listed are so close it's like splitting hairs. 

The ASRock X670E Taichi Carrara looks sick tho.

[Agall]

9 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

im curious if the usbc on mobos can output display with the igpu or not

Yes, a lot of higher end boards will do hdmi over type-c, then there's a lot that use DP alt/passthrough.

 

Example being the X670e Aorus Master has a type-c with DP passthrough as its 3rd iGPU display output. Its probably the best option for high end boards especially if they're tight on rear I/O, simply having DP-passthrough for already existing type-c ports takes up a lot less space and doesn't have to compromise like some high end boards where they just negate the display outputs, like the X570 ROG Impact (the board running my 3950x right now). 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

Yes, a lot of higher end boards will do hdmi over type-c, then there's a lot that use DP alt/passthrough.

 

Example being the X670e Aorus Master has a type-c with DP passthrough as its 3rd iGPU display output. Its probably the best option for high end boards especially if they're tight on rear I/O, simply having DP-passthrough for already existing type-c ports takes up a lot less space and doesn't have to compromise like some high end boards where they just negate the display outputs, like the X570 ROG Impact (the board running my 3950x right now). 

so you just use a usbc to dp adapter and it works?

 

ive also seen usbc to hdmi adapters so im kinda curious as to how those work as some of the ones i see arent just cables but also have box thingys (cannot come up with a better description =p)

[GuiltySpark_]

My X670E Taichi has two of its three DisplayPort internal outputs directly connected through the Thunderbolt/USB4 controller from the iGPU.

 

Yes, Type C to DP adapters work fine. (I used one of these outputs to drive a monitor currently)

 

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

so you just use a usbc to dp adapter and it works?

 

ive also seen usbc to hdmi adapters so im kinda curious as to how those work as some of the ones i see arent just cables but also have box thingys (cannot come up with a better description =p)

Yes, usb-c to dp alt is what I've looked for. I used to have one that I brought into work for an M1 Mac that I tested on a 6900 XT primarily. It even works with smartphones. A major advantage of the Steam Deck dock is that its type-c with DP alt/passthrough, being the only one I'm aware of since most type-c docks with full DP ports are usually Thunderbolt and not just type-c.

 

Regarding if it works properly across USB via HDMI to its full capabilities, I have no way of validating this atm for a standard type-c hub with HDMI, but if I remember in about 10 hours, I can test it. That would be whether passing that HDMI through type-c has it operate as a serial display out connected to the CPU over USB or if they finally engineered around that with type-c to have it wired to the iGPU.

[Agall]

8 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

My X670E Taichi has two of its three DisplayPort internal outputs directly connected through the Thunderbolt/USB4 controller from the iGPU.

 

Yes, Type C to DP adapters work fine. (I used one of these outputs to drive a monitor currently)

 

Keep in mind though that's USB4 with Thunderbolt support, which is unique in comparison to standard type-c with DP passthrough.

 

My favorite are the boards with mini-DP passthrough ports for the thunderbolt ports, where you can pass your dGPU's output through the thunderbolt. I know there's some examples, but I can't find them quickly, I think from last gen.

 

Found em:

ProArt Z690-CREATOR WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

ASUS ProArt Z790-Creator WiFi 6E LGA 1700(Intel 14th & 13th & 12th Gen) ATX content creator motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5,2x Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports,10G&2.5G LAN,4xM.2/NVMe SSD, - Newegg.com

 

Actually, the X670e Creator board has 1 of those DP in ports.

ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator WiFi 6E Socket AM5 (LGA 1718) Ryzen 7000 ATX Content Creator Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 16+2 Power Stages, USB4, 10Gb & 2.5Gb LAN, WiFi 6E, Four M.2 Slots) - Newegg.com

[GuiltySpark_]

7 minutes ago, Agall said:

Keep in mind though that's USB4 with Thunderbolt support, which is unique in comparison to standard type-c with DP passthrough.

Yes, this is offered in multiple ways. Who knows why but it works for me.

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Yes, this is offered in multiple ways. Who knows why but it works for me.

If I had this X670e Creator board instead of my X670e Aorus Master, I could've used the DP-in port to pass just one USB4 connection through the wall natively to the board. Wouldn't have had to make such a big hole to get DP through it and just convert it on the other end. 

 

Maybe something I'll look for in my next rig that'll include a new display, ideally that has USB4 with an internal hub that allows DP-in from that same port. Maybe even power it with that USB4 with some some of PD injector running off a 8pin VGA aux power from the power supply or something.