Help running long network cable

[NRG]

Hey! I need some help from you experts. I am going to build a workshop about 80-90 meters from my house and I want to run a network cable from the house to the shop.

 

I am going to run electrical and water buried i the ground from the house to the shop this summer and at the same time I want to run a network cable.

 

The problem is that it will be a 120-140 meter run so just a cat6 cable from one router to another wont work so I need some ideas for what to do. Im thinking of some sort of extender on either end or ethernet to fiber to ethernet. Do you guys have any idea what could work? 

 

I live in Sweden so I would prefer links to Amazon or AliExpress etc.

Im a complete novice at this type of networking so really would appreciate all the help I can get

[Skiiwee29]

Use fiber to connect the 2 sides if you have innerduct and conduit between the 2 buildings. Then you can either get a media converter to convert back to electrical or get a switch that has an sfp port

[Gorgon]

You definitely want to use Fiber for this for Lightning protection etc as a long Copper Ethernet cable is like a giant antenna. You should just need 2 1000BaseSX Small Form-Factor Pluggable (SFP) and either 50/125 or 63/125 micron Multi-mode Fibre for Gigabit Ethernet. If you want 10 Gigabit then you'll need switches with SFP+ ports.

 

If your burying your services (electrical, water) then be sure to install an additional separate conduit (plastic pipe) for networking and also install a pull cord along with whatever networking cabling you use.

 

In the shop, if there's only one device (PC) you could just install a Fibre Network Interface Card (NIC or Adapter) and terminate the Fiber on it. Definitely purchase the Fiber cable of the appropriate length with the "LC" connectors pre-installed as terminating fiber is not for the inexperienced.

[NRG]

27 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Use fiber to connect the 2 sides if you have innerduct and conduit between the 2 buildings. Then you can either get a media converter to convert back to electrical or get a switch that has an sfp port

Yeah, I was considering that. Do you know what products I should get? I'm on a bit of a budget but I also need it to work long term so something good but affordable would be nice  Would these work? https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B09JN2MMK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANU9KP01APNAG https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B0B7WX58RJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1IT2UFMVZEG5L&psc=1

[NRG]

20 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

You definitely want to use Fiber for this for Lightning protection etc as a long Copper Ethernet cable is like a giant antenna. You should just need 2 1000BaseSX Small Form-Factor Pluggable (SFP) and either 50/125 or 63/125 micron Multi-mode Fibre for Gigabit Ethernet. If you want 10 Gigabit then you'll need switches with SFP+ ports.

 

If your burying your services (electrical, water) then be sure to install an additional separate conduit (plastic pipe) for networking and also install a pull cord along with whatever networking cabling you use.

 

In the shop, if there's only one device (PC) you could just install a Fibre Network Interface Card (NIC or Adapter) and terminate the Fiber on it. Definitely purchase the Fiber cable of the appropriate length with the "LC" connectors pre-installed as terminating fiber is not for the inexperienced.

Half of this message is in Chinese I think  Nah but im pretty inexperienced in fiber so I would need a set of products linked that I can buy directly  If you check the links I attached in the previous message I fould some stuff thay may work? I know I need a sfp module of some sort aswell but not what kind. Im only running 100/100 mbit/s and probably wont upgrade for a while and if I do it wont be more then 250/100 or 500/250  

[Lurick]

27 minutes ago, NRG said:

Yeah, I was considering that. Do you know what products I should get? I'm on a bit of a budget but I also need it to work long term so something good but affordable would be nice  Would these work? https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B09JN2MMK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANU9KP01APNAG https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B0B7WX58RJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1IT2UFMVZEG5L&psc=1

Those wouldn't work out of the box without some couplers and LC to SC patch cables as well.

The converters are SC connectors (stubby/fat connectors) and the fiber linked is LC (long/skinny connectors).

If you can find converters with SFP ports instead then you could get an SFP module like was linked above (make sure it's single mode if you use the cable you linked) and then you'll be good.

[Gorgon]

32 minutes ago, NRG said:

Half of this message is in Chinese I think  Nah but im pretty inexperienced in fiber so I would need a set of products linked that I can buy directly  If you check the links I attached in the previous message I fould some stuff thay may work? I know I need a sfp module of some sort aswell but not what kind. Im only running 100/100 mbit/s and probably wont upgrade for a while and if I do it wont be more then 250/100 or 500/250  

Yes, you can use 100BaseTX (Copper) to 100BaseFX (Fibre) transceivers but these are generally a Pain in the Ass as they require external power and can be flakey (intermittent failures for no good reason). There also are 100BasFX SFP Modules but you'd have to figure out if the Switch and NIC support them.

 

The fiber you linked is Single Mode and would be for more expensive "Long-Haul" applications. You would typically use Single Mode Fibre like this but that vendor only has lengths up to 100m but if you shop around you should be able to find longer lengths.

 

The Transceiver you linked is for Single Mode Fibre but is designed to drive a signal 25km so WAAY more than you need so you would have to use attenuators to drop the signal level down or risk burning out the receivers at either end. It is also single-ended and only uses one fibre for both directions (each direction runs on a separate "color" (wavelength) of light) and uses a single SC connector rather than the more common (these days) LC ones.

 

While you can also use Fiber with "SC" connectors they are much larger and harder to pull through smaller conduits (pipes).

 

Yes, you likely can find 100BaseTX to FX Media Convertors it is probably easier these days just to use Gigabit (1000BaseT to FX) convertors or SFP modules as they are much more commonly available.

[NRG]

5 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

Yes, you can use 100BaseTX (Copper) to 100BaseFX (Fibre) transceivers but these are generally a Pain in the Ass as they require external power and can be flakey (intermittent failures for no good reason). There also are 100BasFX SFP Modules but you'd have to figure out if the Switch and NIC support them.

 

The fiber you linked is Single Mode and would be for more expensive "Long-Haul" applications. You would typically use Single Mode Fibre like this but that vendor only has lengths up to 100m but if you shop around you should be able to find longer lengths.

 

The Transceiver you linked is for Single Mode Fibre but is designed to drive a signal 25km so WAAY more than you need so you would have to use attenuators to drop the signal level down or risk burning out the receivers at either end. It is also single-ended and only uses one fibre for both directions (each direction runs on a separate "color" (wavelength) of light) and uses a single SC connector rather than the more common (these days) LC ones.

 

While you can also use Fiber with "SC" connectors they are much larger and harder to pull through smaller conduits (pipes).

 

Yes, you likely can find 100BaseTX to FX Media Convertors it is probably easier these days just to use Gigabit (1000BaseT to FX) convertors or SFP modules as they are much more commonly available.

Im watching the "We just leveled up HARDCORE - Fibre Adventure" video and according to Linus multi mode fiber only work at lengths up to 100m and in my case I will need a 150m cable so I think I need single mode  Im no expert at searching fiber on amazon and I can't seem to find the switches and cables and all the stuff I need that fits together. Is that something you are able to do? 

[Lurick]

Just now, NRG said:

Im watching the "We just leveled up HARDCORE - Fibre Adventure" video and according to Linus multi mode fiber only work at lengths up to 100m and in my case I will need a 150m cable so I think I need single mode  Im no expert at searching fiber on amazon and I can't seem to find the switches and cables and all the stuff I need that fits together. Is that something you are able to do? 

Multi mode for 10g or 1g (lower data rates) is good for up to about 300-500m, you can do 200m for 100g on multi mode in some cases HOWEVER I would still advise single mode for basically any install these days

[NRG]

24 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Those wouldn't work out of the box without some couplers and LC to SC patch cables as well.

The converters are SC connectors (stubby/fat connectors) and the fiber linked is LC (long/skinny connectors).

If you can find converters with SFP ports instead then you could get an SFP module like was linked above (make sure it's single mode if you use the cable you linked) and then you'll be good.

I noticed that, I can't seem to find the right ones 

[Lurick]

Just now, NRG said:

I noticed that, I can't seem to find the right ones 

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP-Transceiver-20KM-ipolex/dp/B0719HS31P/

Two of these plus the fiber you linked earlier would be perfect

[NRG]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Multi mode for 10g or 1g (lower data rates) is good for up to about 300-500m, you can do 200m for 100g on multi mode in some cases HOWEVER I would still advise single mode for basically any install these days

then single mode it is

[Lurick]

Ah, I missed Sweden earlier:

https://www.amazon.se/Medienconverter-Singlemode-Transceiver-strömadapter-SFP-LX-modul/dp/B07TB4KPPL

 

Two of these would do

[NRG]

So 2x of these https://www.amazon.se/Medienconverter-Singlemode-Transceiver-strömadapter-SFP-LX-modul/dp/B07TB4KPPL and 1x of this https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B09JN2MMK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANU9KP01APNAG is all I need?  The SFP modules that comes in the kit aren't too strong for 150m 100/100 mbit/s? 

[Lurick]

Just now, NRG said:

So 2x of these https://www.amazon.se/Medienconverter-Singlemode-Transceiver-strömadapter-SFP-LX-modul/dp/B07TB4KPPL and 1x of this https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B09JN2MMK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANU9KP01APNAG is all I need?  The SFP modules that comes in the kit aren't too strong for 150m 100/100 mbit/s? 

Yah, I've run 100g optics like that over a 1m cable for years without issue

[Gorgon]

20 minutes ago, Lurick said:

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP-Transceiver-20KM-ipolex/dp/B0719HS31P/

Two of these plus the fiber you linked earlier would be perfect

No, they are not perfect. Those are 20km rated 1310nm SFP modules and will require attenuators for such a small run or you WILL risk burning out the receivers at either end. The Multi-Mode model rated at 550m maximum would be better in this use case.

 

See:

 

 

[Lurick]

18 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

No, they are not perfect. Those are 20km rated 1310nm SFP modules and will require attenuators for such a small run or you WILL risk burning out the receivers at either end. The Multi-Mode model rated at 550m maximum would be better in this use case.

 

See:

 

 

See

Minimum cabling distance for -SR, -LRM, -LR, -ER modules is 2m, according to the IEEE 802.3ae

 

[NRG]

This is confusing me 

[NRG]

40 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

No, they are not perfect. Those are 20km rated 1310nm SFP modules and will require attenuators for such a small run or you WILL risk burning out the receivers at either end. The Multi-Mode model rated at 550m maximum would be better in this use case.

 

See:

 

 

I watched the video and they seem to use single mode fiber with a optical attenuator, wouldn't that work for me too? I don't know how to calculate what attenuator to use though.

[Gorgon]

2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

See

Minimum cabling distance for -SR, -LRM, -LR, -ER modules is 2m, according to the IEEE 802.3ae

Sigh. I'm not going to engage. You have offered your opinion and I mine.

[NRG]

5 minutes ago, NRG said:

I watched the video and they seem to use single mode fiber with a optical attenuator, wouldn't that work for me too? I don't know how to calculate what attenuator to use though.

I found this table: 

Attenuation % (signal reduction) for different dB values
1dB = 21% / 6dB = 75%
2dB = 37% / 7dB = 80%
3dB = 50% / 10dB = 90%
4dB = 60% / 13dB = 95%
5dB = 68% / 15dB = 96.8%

 

So for a 20km setup I should use a 13db attenuator wich will bring it down to 1km or a 15db attentuator wich will bring it down to 640m. That should work right?

[Needfuldoer]

14 hours ago, NRG said:

This is confusing me 

 

14 hours ago, NRG said:

I found this table: 

Attenuation % (signal reduction) for different dB values
1dB = 21% / 6dB = 75%
2dB = 37% / 7dB = 80%
3dB = 50% / 10dB = 90%
4dB = 60% / 13dB = 95%
5dB = 68% / 15dB = 96.8%

 

So for a 20km setup I should use a 13db attenuator wich will bring it down to 1km or a 15db attentuator wich will bring it down to 640m. That should work right?

 

You don't need that. Don't overthink it.

 

Here's all you need to get Gigabit to your outbuilding:

 

150m LC to LC SM2 Single Mode fiber

Fiber to Copper media converter with 1000Base-LX SFP transceiver (2x)

 

Run the fiber between buildings (inside a conduit), stick a media converter on each end. Boom, done.

 

These should be equivalent:

https://www.amazon.se/Good-Connections-LWL-kabel-ljusvågsledare-glasfiberkabel/dp/B08JQJ1LLM

https://www.amazon.se/glasfiberomvandlare-europeisk-strömförsörjning-SFP-sändtagare-leveransen/dp/B08ZN8DNV5

 

If you want 10 Gigabit, you'll need switches with SFP+ ports and 10GBASE-LR SFP+ optics instead of the media converters. Other than that, the idea is the same.

[mariushm]

Media converter

 

$29 (you'll need 2 of these) Ethernet to SFP  media converter : https://www.fs.com/products/96396.html?attribute=31770&id=3477594

 

Transceivers

 

$7 (you'll need 2 of these)  LC Duplex connector, Multimode Fiber - Cisco GLC-SX-MM Compatible SFP 1000BASE-SX 850nm 550m DOM Duplex LC/UPC MMF Optical Transceiver Module   https://www.fs.com/products/11774.html

 

These transceivers can do :

550m@50/125µm OM2 MMF
275m@62.5/125µm OM1 MMF
220m@62.5/125µm FDDI MMF

 

$8 (you'll need 2 of these) LC Duplex connector, Single Mode Fiber  - Cisco GLC-LH-SM Compatible SFP 1000BASE-LX/LH 1310nm 10km DOM Duplex LC/UPC SMF Optical Transceiver Module : https://www.fs.com/products/11775.html?attribute=99495&id=3494112

 

edit: 

 

You could also use BiDi transceivers - they use two wavelengths on a single fiber to transmit and receive ... one frequency is used to transmit, another to receive and on the other side, the transceiver must have those frequencies switched.  Advantage is fiber could be cheaper, but if you want to go 10g or 40g later, a BiDi transceiver that can do that will be more expensive, so going with 2 fiber cable may be better even though it costs more.

 

$10 : Cisco GLC-BX-U Compatible SFP 1000BASE-BX-U BiDi 1310nm-TX/1490nm-RX 10km DOM Simplex LC/UPC SMF Optical Transceiver Module

and on the other side : https://www.fs.com/products/11802.html

$14 : Cisco GLC-BX-D Compatible SFP 1000BASE-BX-D BiDi 1490nm-TX/1310nm-RX 10km DOM Simplex LC/UPC SMF Optical Transceiver Module  : https://www.fs.com/products/11795.html

 

end edit.

 

Fiber cable (150 meters, length can be customized to save money) , with LC duplex connectors because of the chosen transceiver above

 

edit :

 

Single fiber , that would work only with BiDi transceivers added to the post with this edit

 

$30  Customized Simplex OS2 Single Mode LC/SC/FC/ST/LSH/MU Fiber Optic Patch Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/12285.html?attribute=994&id=1027035

 

end edit

 

With 2 fibers, for the regular transceivers :

 

$49 Customized Length LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OS2 Single Mode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Tight-Buffered Fiber Optic Patch Cable

 

$76 Customized Length LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OM3 Multimode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/74386.html?attribute=843&id=18796

 

Thin and not shielded... so it may break or be chewed by rats/mice etc , but CHEAP.

 

$173  Customized Duplex OS2 Single Mode LC/SC/FC/ST/LSH Armored 3.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/20720.html?attribute=1203&id=20771

 

$260 Customized 2 Fibers Indoor/Outdoor OS2 Single Mode Assembly LC/SC/FC/ST, 2.0mm Breakout Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/29584.html

 

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Media converter

 

$29 (you'll need 2 of these) Ethernet to SFP  media converter : https://www.fs.com/products/96396.html?attribute=31770&id=3477594

 

Transceivers

 

$7 (you'll need 2 of these)  LC Duplex connector, Multimode Fiber - Cisco GLC-SX-MM Compatible SFP 1000BASE-SX 850nm 550m DOM Duplex LC/UPC MMF Optical Transceiver Module   https://www.fs.com/products/11774.html

 

These transceivers can do :

550m@50/125µm OM2 MMF
275m@62.5/125µm OM1 MMF
220m@62.5/125µm FDDI MMF

 

$8 (you'll need 2 of these) LC Duplex connector, Single Mode Fiber  - Cisco GLC-LH-SM Compatible SFP 1000BASE-LX/LH 1310nm 10km DOM Duplex LC/UPC SMF Optical Transceiver Module : https://www.fs.com/products/11775.html?attribute=99495&id=3494112

 

Fiber cable (150 meters, length can be customized to save money) , with LC duplex connectors because of the chosen transceiver above

 

$49 Customized Length LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OS2 Single Mode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Tight-Buffered Fiber Optic Patch Cable

 

$76 Customized Length LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OM3 Multimode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/74386.html?attribute=843&id=18796

 

Thin and not shielded... so it may break or be chewed by rats/mice etc , but CHEAP.

 

$173  Customized Duplex OS2 Single Mode LC/SC/FC/ST/LSH Armored 3.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/20720.html?attribute=1203&id=20771

 

$260 Customized 2 Fibers Indoor/Outdoor OS2 Single Mode Assembly LC/SC/FC/ST, 2.0mm Breakout Cable  : https://www.fs.com/products/29584.html

 

 

 

Note that you can't mix single mode and multimode fiber and transceivers, you have to pick one standard.

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:29 PM, NRG said:

I am going to run electrical and water buried i the ground from the house to the shop this summer and at the same time I want to run a network cable.

Also consider that running electrical to an outbuilding may need a professional.

 

I don't know about other countries, but in the UK this sort of thing typically need a new ground fitting for the outbuilding as two disconnected buildings should not use the same ground.  Some people will DIY it, but technically that could be illegal and not meet code and at best invalidate your home insurance.