Stuck at Upgrading CPU

[SirInvoker]

Hi, I am a total newbie and i am really looking forward to learn. so be patient with me if i asked a stupid question. I currently have 3400G + B550 Gaming x v2 Gigabyte + 4400 16GB of RAM (VIPER).

i want to upgrade my cpu. i am looking forward to get a cpu for this specific board (AM4) and i love to use all the power of my RAM, in my current build it cant go above 3200 CL 14. it just crashes. I want to get a good cpu for it to maximize the performance without switching to AM5. i am currently looking at 5600,5700x(for budget) and looking at 5800X3D to get the ultimate power. any recommendation from you and i will gladly hear it. I am planning to buy a 4K 144 1ms Monitor in future and currently i am with 1080p 170hz MSI 24inch.

 

Thank you so much

[RONOTHAN##]

It's probably worth looking at the 5700X3D, since it's a slightly lower clocked 5800X3D for a price closer to the 5700X. 

 

What GPU are you running?

[DoctorNick]

5 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

It's probably worth looking at the 5700X3D, since it's a slightly lower clocked 5800X3D for a price closer to the 5700X. 

 

What GPU are you running?

I agree, but really depends on the price. Here they're almost the same price so not worth it. 

@SirInvokerAlso be advised, you'll not get 4400mhz working on any AMD AM4 CPU, unless you're a tweaker god. It works just fine, I used to have the same kit. I ran it at 3600@CL15. I would advise you to get a new kit though, 32gb is well worth it. Many games benefit from this and the increased memory bandwidth of the bigger kit will perform better. 3200/3600mhz CL16 is fine. Especially for the 5800X3D, that doesn't benefit from faster ram as much as the non-X3D chips because of the 3D V-cache.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

7 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

you'll not get 4400mhz working on any AMD AM4 CPU, unless you're a tweaker god

Cezzane apus will do 4600+ dual rank in 1:1 no problem so i doubt a single rank bdie kit at only 4400mhz is gonna give those chips any issues

 

Similar thing goes for matisse (zen2) and vermeer (zen3) though they can only run 2:1 or desync fclk and you are stuck to 4600-4800 depending on how good your imc is

 

As for a second kit just look for a used 3200c14 kit and drop it in since its guaranteed bdie, assuming op doesnt go for an apu which i bet he wont binning shouldnt be too much of an issue since we arent doing high freq or 2v+ bench settings, just a regular 3800-4000 just that the subs will be alot tighter than most 8gbit ics (ex trfc 250-300 instead of 500+) and most daisy chain boards can handle 4 stick at <4000, it does help that giga b550 tend to have pretty good ram oc capabilities

 

Performance diff is gonna be basically non existent even if the bdies are alot faster but its probably gonna be cheaper than the 50$ for a 2x16 kit

 

 

as for cpu choice if new is the only option 5700x3d (can bclk if you want), otherwise used 5800x3d can be found for 200-250$ depending on your used market

 

then you can buy a used bdie kit and run at 3800 whatever primaries as long as subs are tight (trfc 250-300), 16-16-16-16 is the least you should expect

[DoctorNick]

3 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Cezzane apus will do 4600+ dual rank in 1:1 no problem so i doubt a single rank bdie kit at only 4400mhz is gonna give those chips any issues

 

Similar thing goes for matisse (zen2) and vermeer (zen3) though they can only run 2:1 or desync fclk and you are stuck to 4600-4800 depending on how good your imc is

 

As for a second kit just look for a used 3200c14 kit and drop it in since its guaranteed bdie, assuming op doesnt go for an apu which i bet he wont binning shouldnt be too much of an issue since we arent doing high freq or 2v+ bench settings, just a regular 3800-4000 just that the subs will be alot tighter than most 8gbit ics (ex trfc 250-300 instead of 500+) and most daisy chain boards can handle 4 stick at <4000, it does help that giga b550 tend to have pretty good ram oc capabilities

 

Performance diff is gonna be basically non existent even if the bdies are alot faster but its probably gonna be cheaper than the 50$ for a 2x16 kit

 

 

as for cpu choice if new is the only option 5700x3d (can bclk if you want), otherwise used 5800x3d can be found for 200-250$ depending on your used market

 

then you can buy a used bdie kit and run at 3800 whatever primaries as long as subs are tight (trfc 250-300), 16-16-16-16 is the least you should expect

Yeah apart from the APU's of course..

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, DoctorNick said:

Yeah apart from the APU's of course..

The cpus too but its unusable since it probably isnt fast enough to have any noticable performance benifit over 3800/4000 1:1 and stands no chance against dual rank 3800/4000 1:1

 

The apus make high freq usable since high freq dual rank is possible, just that you dont wanna run 4 sticks and youll probs want a good pcb on the rams alongside a decent board if you wanna push 4600+

[bal723]

1 hour ago, DoctorNick said:

I agree, but really depends on the price. Here they're almost the same price so not worth it. 

@SirInvokerAlso be advised, you'll not get 4400mhz working on any AMD AM4 CPU, unless you're a tweaker god. It works just fine, I used to have the same kit. I ran it at 3600@CL15. I would advise you to get a new kit though, 32gb is well worth it. Many games benefit from this and the increased memory bandwidth of the bigger kit will perform better. 3200/3600mhz CL16 is fine. Especially for the 5800X3D, that doesn't benefit from faster ram as much as the non-X3D chips because of the 3D V-cache.

my 10th gen i3 runs 4400 18-24-24-44 wdym he will not get it working on am4 cpu

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, bal723 said:

my 10th gen i3 runs 4400 18-24-24-44 wdym he will not get it working on am4 cpu

Different imcs so not comparable

 

4400 is about whats expected for 10th gen at ~1.45v vccsa/io and i think you may be able to go higher depending on the chip

 

11th gen was a regression since gear 1 could only do like 4000-4200

 

Unsure about 12th gen

 

13th and 14th gen should be able to do somewhere around 4200-4500 gear 1 looking around on the internet

 

 

Zen2/3 cpus share the same i/o die so same 3800-4000 ddr4 capability in 1:1 fclk and somewhere around 4800-5200 in desync fclk which is amds gear 2 equivalent

 

For the apus zen2 (renoir) could do 4400-4600 1:1 fclk and zen3 can do 5000+ 1:1 fclk

[bal723]

1 minute ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Different imcs so not comparable

 

4400 is about whats expected for 10th gen at ~1.45v vccsa/io and i think you may be able to go higher depending on the chip

 

11th gen was a regression since gear 1 could only do like 4000-4200

 

Unsure about 12th gen

 

13th and 14th gen should be able to do somewhere around 4200-4500 gear 1 looking around on the internet

 

 

Zen2/3 cpus share the same i/o die so same 3800-4000 ddr4 capability in 1:1 fclk and somewhere around 4800-5200 in desync fclk which is amds gear 2 equivalent

 

For the apus zen2 (renoir) could do 4400-4600 1:1 fclk and zen3 can do 5000+ 1:1 fclk

idk about vccsa/io, i didnt change it but ram itself runs at 1.5v

[SirInvoker]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:02 AM, RONOTHAN## said:

It's probably worth looking at the 5700X3D, since it's a slightly lower clocked 5800X3D for a price closer to the 5700X. 

 

What GPU are you running?

Thank you for your response. No GPU for now , I am planning to buy an used one , Maybe 5700XT or a 6750XT,

[SirInvoker]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:29 AM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Cezzane apus will do 4600+ dual rank in 1:1 no problem so i doubt a single rank bdie kit at only 4400mhz is gonna give those chips any issues

 

Similar thing goes for matisse (zen2) and vermeer (zen3) though they can only run 2:1 or desync fclk and you are stuck to 4600-4800 depending on how good your imc is

 

As for a second kit just look for a used 3200c14 kit and drop it in since its guaranteed bdie, assuming op doesnt go for an apu which i bet he wont binning shouldnt be too much of an issue since we arent doing high freq or 2v+ bench settings, just a regular 3800-4000 just that the subs will be alot tighter than most 8gbit ics (ex trfc 250-300 instead of 500+) and most daisy chain boards can handle 4 stick at <4000, it does help that giga b550 tend to have pretty good ram oc capabilities

 

Performance diff is gonna be basically non existent even if the bdies are alot faster but its probably gonna be cheaper than the 50$ for a 2x16 kit

 

 

as for cpu choice if new is the only option 5700x3d (can bclk if you want), otherwise used 5800x3d can be found for 200-250$ depending on your used market

 

then you can buy a used bdie kit and run at 3800 whatever primaries as long as subs are tight (trfc 250-300), 16-16-16-16 is the least you should expect

Thank you for your comment, I looked upon price comparison between 5700X3D 5800X3D and AM5 7800X3D and i was surprised that its not that much high, for example 7800X3D is just 100GBP higher than 5800X3D In UK ( where I live ). second hand market is not really different than new market. maybe 30GBP Less. so i thought twice and maybe I will be considering AM5.

[SirInvoker]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:13 AM, DoctorNick said:

I agree, but really depends on the price. Here they're almost the same price so not worth it. 

@SirInvokerAlso be advised, you'll not get 4400mhz working on any AMD AM4 CPU, unless you're a tweaker god. It works just fine, I used to have the same kit. I ran it at 3600@CL15. I would advise you to get a new kit though, 32gb is well worth it. Many games benefit from this and the increased memory bandwidth of the bigger kit will perform better. 3200/3600mhz CL16 is fine. Especially for the 5800X3D, that doesn't benefit from faster ram as much as the non-X3D chips because of the 3D V-cache.

Thank you so much, I took your words for it and I realized that going above 3600 MHZ is really tricky for nearly most cpus. so you should be TOPTIER OVERCLOCKER wih outstanding knowledge which I am not lol. and i am really surprised about the last part you mentioned. thank you so much for your clarification. To be honest I just want to have a good PC which can do good. where i lived before I was not able to even find pc parts let alone buying them. So I can see i have a wide range of parts and components with good price and performance so I wanted to go for it and ask people who are knowledgable so I can save time and money at the same time

[RONOTHAN##]

25 minutes ago, SirInvoker said:

Thank you for your response. No GPU for now , I am planning to buy an used one , Maybe 5700XT or a 6750XT,

In which case, I'd probably get the 5600(X) and put the money you save into getting a better GPU, that will be more noticeable than a 5700X3D will be. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

19 minutes ago, SirInvoker said:

Thank you so much, I took your words for it and I realized that going above 3600 MHZ is really tricky for nearly most cpus. so you should be TOPTIER OVERCLOCKER wih outstanding knowledge which I am not lol

No you just need to have confidence and balls (no fear) cause im just a 16yo kid and im already pushing 3000+ ddr3 on x58 and a year ago also pushed 1520 ddr2 on 775 stable

 

It really isnt that hard especially if you arent like me and aim for properly high freq, 3800-4000 on zen2/3 cpus is still relatively slow speed so its not really that hard just tedious and needs some p95 largeffts stress test so you know its stable, its only when you are really pushing the ocs like 5000+ ddr4 then things become very hard and very painful

 

 

Btw whats your budget for the upgrade? B550 is pretty worthless used so dont think its worth swapping the entire platform out if a used 200-250£ 5800x3d can be dropped in and still game just fine alongside a used 3200c14 4400c19 (19-19-19) or 3600c16 (16-16-16) samsung b die for 32gb of ram at 3800-4000c16 trfc 250-300

[SirInvoker]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:05 AM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

No you just need to have confidence and balls (no fear) cause im just a 16yo kid and im already pushing 3000+ ddr3 on x58 and a year ago also pushed 1520 ddr2 on 775 stable

 

It really isnt that hard especially if you arent like me and aim for properly high freq, 3800-4000 on zen2/3 cpus is still relatively slow speed so its not really that hard just tedious and needs some p95 largeffts stress test so you know its stable, its only when you are really pushing the ocs like 5000+ ddr4 then things become very hard and very painful

 

 

Btw whats your budget for the upgrade? B550 is pretty worthless used so dont think its worth swapping the entire platform out if a used 200-250£ 5800x3d can be dropped in and still game just fine alongside a used 3200c14 4400c19 (19-19-19) or 3600c16 (16-16-16) samsung b die for 32gb of ram at 3800-4000c16 trfc 250-300

Wow thats very remarkable. i am speechless once i noted you overclocked a DDR2 machine ... I want to spend 200GBP (MAX) for the cpu. im fine with used cpus too. in UK.PCPARTPICKER there were plenty of cpus on any platforms somehow made think about Intel too. i can spend more if there's a significant change between gens

[Somerandomtechyboi]

2 hours ago, SirInvoker said:

Wow thats very remarkable. i am speechless once i noted you overclocked a DDR2 machine ... I want to spend 200GBP (MAX) for the cpu. im fine with used cpus too. in UK.PCPARTPICKER there were plenty of cpus on any platforms somehow made think about Intel too. i can spend more if there's a significant change between gens

though do keep in mind that ddr2 and ddr3 is probably easier than ddr4 though i have no experience with ddr4 not ddr5 yet

 

200£ maybe a used 5800x3d or 5900x if you are lucky and do abit of haggling, otherwise used 5700x/5800x at 120-150£ due to all new am4 cpus with the exception of the 5700x3d being complete ripoffs pricing wise

 

 

Imo not worth going zen4 when used 5800x3d and new 5700x3d exist gaming performance wise, besides by the time you do need to upgrade there will probably be 2 or more new cpu gens available after zen4 which also means used b650/x670 will be cheap like current used b3/450 or x3/470 boards that are ~50£ or less used

 

only diff compared to those old 300 400 boards being b650/x670 being stupid overbuilt to the point that an "entry" level board like the b650m hdv has 14 total usb a (6 rear 8 internal) + 2 usbc (1 rear 1 internal) with vrms capable of handling an overclocked 7950x and 10000+ ddr5 capability (likely higher given a better imc but current record is at 10800 atm) so boards like that for <100$ is pretty insane