Aliexpress lga4189 motherboard anyone?

[NastyNickel]

- I've been informed my post is too long so TLDR:
Want to buy aliexpress lga4189 mobo for $120 budget 47k passmark xeon monster cpu since cheapest new mobo is $433 and thats not budget friendly like a $120 cpu is.
Who are mobo brands worth looking at on ali? Are there any known working 4189 mobos from ali? Does linus want to do a ali express lga4189 mobo showdown for us and save the day?
I'm trying to keep the build under 800 canadian ideally - but while also hitting above 40k passmark.

- long version with all my homework on it:
Call me crazy - but I see potential here for a budget system monster in the lga4189 socket with some cpus being found used under $200 canadian.

So whats the problem?

Motherboards seem to start at around $600-700 and can go as far upwards as $1500+ 

Unless you like sketchy off brands!

Like... Tyan? They have a motherboard up on newegg for $299 usd or a million canadian ($433 - all prices will be in canadian after this joke on my joke currency) and it has me wondering...

What other sketchy asian brands are out there making lga4189?

And that brings us to our adventure at aliexpress.

Just like this adventure from our sponsor: (left blank for sponsor)

While "I" personally have not found much cheaper, there are some interesting alternatives in the same 400-500 range as Tyan, altho they are equally less known names so who really knows if they are any better. (The search continues but would love suggestions or to hear if anyone has tried any lga4189 socket mobos from ali or if this could gain enough attention for linus himself to do a episode on it for us)

We can toss a 2060 super in there since we can find them around fairly cheap now adays in the $200-250 range used.

To the 2060 supers credit - it can actually keep up pretty well with the 3060,  altho it isn't as future proofing, its hard to justify the nearly double price tag on a budget system just to get 12gb vram on a 3060 if your not doing 4k gaming. But hey if you can bust the budget for the upgraded gpu you could.

Ram also has great potential to be budget friendly, its ddr4 3200mhz - and before you say it - I know what your thinking - its old and slow.

But hear me out; current i core cpus (i5, i7, i9 ect) have dual-channel ram as in 2 channels for data to transfer down - even if you have four sockets to put your ram into, they just pair up, than head down the same two channels in pairs.

Even if you have a i9-12900 this is the case.

But if you had say a Intel Xeon gold series cpu like a 6342, 6336Y or intel platinum series 8360Y than you would have Eight channels of ram, meaning if you have 8 sticks of ram in your computer, each stick would have its own channel/lane for crazy amounts of data transfer rates. Again if you had 16 sticks of ram installed, it would only have 8 channels so they would pair up in groups of two per channel again for the data bandwidth.

Kinda interesting when you look at the used market too, since, we're doing budget stuff why wouldn't you right?

$110 - 6342 - 45.5k passmark benchmark
$120 - 6336Y - 47k passmark benchmark
$155 - 8360Y - 54k passmark benchmark

I have others on my list and the socket under it, but its not much better for motherboards either so we may as well stick with lga4189 for the increased bang for our same motherboard buck since that is by far the most expensive part of this build.

So what else can you get for that?

Even used on ebay, the alternatives don't stand up great.
$200 - i5-12400k 19.5k benchmark
$220 - i5-12600k  27.8k benchmark

Okay oddly enough newegg.ca has a ebay account and I found these new items from them, sold through ebay as well as the cheapest options.... like people legitimately are listing theirs for more USED than newegg is selling theirs for BRAND NEW. I can only assume that if you want to sell your 12th i9 or i7 right now and upgrade or 13th gen, you can probably get most of your money back by selling it on ebay since you would be the only option aside of new, so anyone looking for a deal would have to do it if they wanted it.

Anyways the ebay/newegg new cpus are not much better.
$320 - i7-12700k 34.7k benchmark
$470 - i9-12900k  41.4k benchmark

So as we can clearly see here you need to spend nearly 4 times as much in a i9 cpu just to keep up with these "unloved" xeon gold cpus... And you still loose out on 3/4rds the ram bandwidth..

I feel like theres huge potential here... but the only thing holding it back is a budget friendly lga 4189 board - or else we start getting into a role reversal.

The 1700 series mobos can be had as little as $150 or less right now (just like the xeon cpus) and the i9 can be had for a little more than the tyan lga4189 board was going for.

So without the motherboard this budget monster just remains a pipe dream... 

Unless one of two things happens, ether I continue to wait for the next gen of cpus coming out to farther depreciate the value in hopes it falls more..

Or we go check out aliexpress and find something cool - I can totally see this being a episode of LTT tbh if someone wants to show him half the homework and script is done already.

Anyways, this is my side project thing, I have a older production computer that is old and tired.. the old x5670 system has done me well for a long time, but my project renders have got up to 3 hours on it.

Its time, I finally did it I guess and out grew the old girl, but I'll always have big respect for these xeon cpus that are sold for thousands each, being reduced to obsolete and dumped to us to enjoy for next to nothing like the $15 legend that was the x5650/70/90 cpus.

By todays standards tho with inflation, I can't complain too much about a 40k+ benchmark cpu for under $120 when this $15 monster got me through the last ten years on a 7k benchmark.

I feel like if I did something like this with an xeon grade cpu it could future proof me again for many years to come - the only thing stopping me from putting the trigger right now is how expensive the motherboard is. Its so badly priced for a budget system that I've legitimately wrote out the entire costs for a budget lga1700 with various cpus including a i3-13100 for $120 with a $185 after shipping mobo.. but to save maybe $220 on the mobo and $100 on the cpu, $320 is a large enough savings to buy a 3060 but it comes with the added cost of having to upgrade later and being stuck on the i core consumer grade platform instead of xeon server grade platform that is frankly the superior platform.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading my rant about this and hopefully we can collectively find a solution to this, I'd love to find a mobo we could use with these unloved xeons.

[BlackDragon1971]

Tyan is not a sketchy brand. They are like Supermicro in the server boards market

[NastyNickel]

4 minutes ago, BlackDragon1971 said:

Tyan is not a sketchy brand. They are like Supermicro in the server boards market

haha cool, thanks for not reading beyond that and missing the entire point.

I've never seen/dealt with them before, but I'm also not dealing with hardware all the time - I work in music and media.

Its always been supermicro I seen around in the used market and never really considered new market last time I looked nearly a decade ago.

The point is if I'm already NOT paying extra for a supermicro - why not look on ali for a board?

 

[BlackDragon1971]

2 minutes ago, NastyNickel said:

haha cool, thanks for not reading beyond that and missing the entire point.

I've never seen/dealt with them before, but I'm also not dealing with hardware all the time - I work in music and media.

Its always been supermicro I seen around in the used market and never really considered new market last time I looked nearly a decade ago.

The point is if I'm already NOT paying extra for a supermicro - why not look on ali for a board?

 

Evidently you've never built a old computer like a 486 DX ... start shaving or read up on older companies first

[NastyNickel]

5 minutes ago, BlackDragon1971 said:

Evidently you've never built a old computer like a 486 DX ... start shaving or read up on older companies first

You win, I'm sure your edick is way huge man, I don't want to play this game where we argue about how valid my experiences are based upon the mobo companies I've used in my build haha.

You have a ali express board suggestion? Or your just upset I never used a tyan before?

Or is it that since its sold by a 3rd party on newegg and not a supported newegg brand.. and half the price of the supermicros.. and an asian brand name.. Just seemed to me like it could be another brand from ali express quite easily.

[jaslion]

It really depends on the usecase here.

 

For a cpu rendering station it could make sense to get a 24 core modern ish core design based cpu for a total of 500 usd however you have to be careful because a 5950x + board can sometimes even be found new for that price and these xeons don't stand a chance. 3950x for example with ease. Hell older threadripper is falling there too and the xeons stand NO chance to those. Eypc might also now start falling down as they are at the starting to be written off age.

 

Memory bandwith only matters in memory intensive workloads and from the sounds of what you do you simply don't need much of that at all.

 

Also like if these are blender renders or whatnot just get a rtx gpu, turn on gpu rendering and slap it in your current pc. Cpu rendering is something we are moving away from as gpu's are doing it FAR faster and more efficiently.

 

39 minutes ago, NastyNickel said:

Ram also has great potential to be budget friendly, its ddr4 3200mhz - and before you say it - I know what your thinking - its old and slow.

No it's current and relevant still for now.

 

 

[BlackDragon1971]

Just now, NastyNickel said:

You win, I'm sure your edick is way huge man, I don't want to play this game where we argue about how valid my experiences are based upon the mobo companies I've used in my build haha.

You have a ali express board suggestion? Or your just upset I never used a tyan before?

Tyan is a good company. Read the product documentation, so you know what you are getting involved in... it'll result in less headaches.

[SupaKomputa]

Tyan is a legit server grade motherboard maker. Not some chinese frankenboard.

X79/99 boards you found on aliexpress is using random leftover chipsets.

So you can endup with different chipset on the same motherboard layout (they probably share the design between manufacturer).

[NastyNickel]

1 minute ago, jaslion said:

It really depends on the usecase here.

 

For a cpu rendering station it could make sense to get a 24 core modern ish core design based cpu for a total of 500 usd however you have to be careful because a 5950x + board can sometimes even be found new for that price and these xeons don't stand a chance. 3950x for example with ease. Hell older threadripper is falling there too and the xeons stand NO chance to those. Eypc might also now start falling down as they are at the starting to be written off age.

 

Memory bandwith only matters in memory intensive workloads and from the sounds of what you do you simply don't need much of that at all.

 

Also like if these are blender renders or whatnot just get a rtx gpu, turn on gpu rendering and slap it in your current pc. Cpu rendering is something we are moving away from as gpu's are doing it FAR faster and more efficiently.

 

No it's current and relevant still for now.

 

 

I mean I know theres threadrippers out there that are better.. but for under budget? I see alot of them are quite expensive in comparison to the benchmarks they give you...

Like I gave up on the epyc line purely cuz theres no way to justify $500+ cpus that are that out dated for sp3 socket when the xeon honestly looks superior to me.

Open to suggestions worth checking out, but I'm also not looking to invest into a deadend path - the xeon opens up alot of opportunities since they are under $120 and eventually - stronger cpus will also be worth less than they are now and become a direct upgrade path without costing anywhere near what they do now.

Another thing for me to think about is wattage - I would really appreciate a cpu that is under 200w personally - so alot of the threadrippers trying to extend their wattage upwards isn't ideal for me when you mix that with the price.

[NastyNickel]

3 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Tyan is a legit server grade motherboard maker. Not some chinese frankenboard.

X79/99 boards you found on aliexpress is using random leftover chipsets.

So you can endup with different chipset on the same motherboard layout (they probably share the design between manufacturer).

Okay well that makes me feel a bit better, still don't wana spend $433 but I guess its there as a backup plan.

As for the ones on ali tho.. tbh.. if they work its hard to care.

The question is tho if theres actually anything quality enough out there to get that fits this budget style build without being absolute trash.

[BlackDragon1971]

I took a chance on eBay for just off market used parts. I picked up an Intel Core i9 10920x 12 Core / 24 Thread LGA 2066 CPU for $250 ish USD and an ASUS ROG Strix x299-E Gaming II mobo for $189 USD... It was a platform upgrade.

That's enough processing power for many folks... unless you are doing some very scientific things and need more than that...

Deals can be found, is what I'm trying to say...

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, NastyNickel said:

I mean I know theres threadrippers out there that are better.. but for under budget? I see alot of them are quite expensive in comparison to the benchmarks they give you...

Like I gave up on the epyc line purely cuz theres no way to justify $500+ cpus that are that out dated for sp3 socket when the xeon honestly looks superior to me.

Open to suggestions worth checking out, but I'm also not looking to invest into a deadend path - the xeon opens up alot of opportunities since they are under $120 and eventually - stronger cpus will also be worth less than they are now and become a direct upgrade path without costing anywhere near what they do now.

Another thing for me to think about is wattage - I would really appreciate a cpu that is under 200w personally - so alot of the threadrippers trying to extend their wattage upwards isn't ideal for me when you mix that with the price.

Lga 4189 is already dead. Nothing new has come out for over a year.

Lga4677 is the new one has been since januari. So you are not getting newer cpu's from the ones you listed some of those are the best ones available.   Keep in mind threadripper is very efficient BUT has different modes. Eco mode makes it an epyc where it's INCREDIBLY efficient and has HEAPS of power (not counting threadripper 1000). Performance mode aligns it more to a ryzen and balanced is an inbetween.

 

 

[NastyNickel]

1 minute ago, BlackDragon1971 said:

I took a chance on eBay for just off market used parts. I picked up an Intel Core i9 10920x 12 Core / 24 Thread LGA 2066 CPU for $250 ish USD and an ASUS ROG Strix x299-E Gaming II mobo for $189 USD... It was a platform upgrade.

That's enough processing power for many folks... unless you are doing some very scientific things and need more than that...

Deals can be found, is what I'm trying to say...

I love how you typed all that out without reading my post - that clearly says I can get a i5-12600 for less than that and a mobo for less than that and be on a better upgrade path.

I donno what your here for honestly mate.

"unless you are doing some very scientific things and need more than that..."

I am.

Ableton takes 64 threads, I'll never achive this on a consumer grade i core platform so I'm looking at workstation and server cpus - as I should be.

[NastyNickel]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Lga 4189 is already dead. Nothing new has come out for over a year.

Lga4677 is the new one has been since januari. So you are not getting newer cpu's from the ones you listed some of those are the best ones available.   Keep in mind threadripper is very efficient BUT has different modes. Eco mode makes it an epyc where it's INCREDIBLY efficient and has HEAPS of power (not counting threadripper 1000). Performance mode aligns it more to a ryzen and balanced is an inbetween.

 

 

huh? I never said anything new was coming out.

I said that a cheap low end $120 xeon cpu in lga4189 will give me a direct upgrade path to cpus that are being sold for 5,000-8000 right now but will be worth under 200 later.

Threadripper can have as many modes as it wants.. you buying me one? Cuz if "I" need to buy it, it needs to be under budget.. and the best bang I can see for my buck I have outlined and listed above in what apparently is tldr  

[BlackDragon1971]

1 minute ago, NastyNickel said:

I love how you typed all that out without reading my post - that clearly says I can get a i5-12600 for less than that and a mobo for less than that and be on a better upgrade path.

I donno what your here for honestly mate.

"unless you are doing some very scientific things and need more than that..."

I am.

Ableton takes 64 threads, I'll never achive this on a consumer grade i core platform so I'm looking at workstation and server cpus - as I should be.

The Core i9 10920X is a HEDT part, not a Consumer grade part. They are Xeon based. Evidently at 64 threads, you need more than that. You require Enterprise level hardware, not Workstation hardware. I do Autodesk apps sometimes, myself.

[jaslion]

9 minutes ago, NastyNickel said:

Ableton

The music software?

[NastyNickel]

6 minutes ago, BlackDragon1971 said:

The Core i9 10920X is a HEDT part, not a Consumer grade part. They are Xeon based. Evidently at 64 threads, you need more than that. You require Enterprise level hardware, not Workstation hardware. I do Autodesk apps sometimes, myself.

So just so I understand your position properly.

you think this 26k benchmark cpu is going to out raw power, the xeon cpus I outlined that have over 40k benchmark?

Yeah.. I'm not buying it. And cheapest one I can see online is $550.

I can get that tyan mobo and one of those 40k+ benchmark xeons for just the price of that cpu - it makes no sense in a price to performance ratio but thanks for playing I guess.

 

[NastyNickel]

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The music software?

Correct.

It can take everything I'm giving it - and more.

People are commonly maxing out the i9-12900k with some of the plugins I use and I'm getting to the point that my xeon x5670 just bluntly is not cutting it anymore.

I've already had to freeze things in order to reduce cpu load and use other various tricks to stay within my cpu limits... And my rendering times have quickly gone from fair when just rendering the whole project to one mp3 - to extremely unfair when rendering 80-120 stems mp3s at once of every element of the song - took me 3 hours last time.

Its not about just core count. And its not about single core speeds. Its about total raw processing power, but having too much in too little cores isn't great either when your running 80-120 channels with a bunch of synths running with multiple plugins on the signal chain for each channel.. it adds up to your cpu alot more than people think.

This isn't your kids gaming rig I'm trying to build - but within the same budget.

[jaslion]

26 minutes ago, NastyNickel said:

Correct.

It can take everything I'm giving it - and more.

People are commonly maxing out the i9-12900k with some of the plugins I use and I'm getting to the point that my xeon x5670 just bluntly is not cutting it anymore.

I've already had to freeze things in order to reduce cpu load and use other various tricks to stay within my cpu limits... And my rendering times have quickly gone from fair when just rendering the whole project to one mp3 - to extremely unfair when rendering 80-120 stems mp3s at once of every element of the song - took me 3 hours last time.

Its not about just core count. And its not about single core speeds. Its about total raw processing power, but having too much in too little cores isn't great either when your running 80-120 channels with a bunch of synths running with multiple plugins on the signal chain for each channel.. it adds up to your cpu alot more than people think.

This isn't your kids gaming rig I'm trying to build - but within the same budget.

Please do keep in mind ableton needs BOTH high end single core performance AND loves threads. The xeons severly lack in the single core performance park so depending on how many tracks you use it is often smart to get a higher single core performance cpu over a broad multi core one.

 

I now far better understand what you are trying to do and can far better advice you on the path.

 

So now the issue is analyzing what happens more often in your workflow because ableton does multithreading in a very crude but also effective way and at the basic level it puts 1 thread per track. Only adding a bunch of simultanious effects trigerrs multi thread per track.

 

I do lightly use ableton and fl so I get the issue.

 

The xeons are the worst but also not the best option out there however for your budget IF you get the right one it might be the best option.

 

Id opt for the higher clocked 24 core one as it will boost higher in single core which should be better overall than the much lower 2ghz base 32 core you have there (which also overal compute isnt too much faster)

[BlackDragon1971]

37 minutes ago, NastyNickel said:

So just so I understand your position properly.

you think this 26k benchmark cpu is going to out raw power, the xeon cpus I outlined that have over 40k benchmark?

Yeah.. I'm not buying it. And cheapest one I can see online is $550.

I can get that tyan mobo and one of those 40k+ benchmark xeons for just the price of that cpu - it makes no sense in a price to performance ratio but thanks for playing I guess.

 

Wasn't playing. We have 2 different workflows ... therefore hardware needs. I require a workstation and you require a server farm.

I'd look at eBay and Newegg for deals. You take your chances with Aliexpress hardware. That's like ordering from Wish. Take your chances somewhat with eBay, but at least you can get known good hardware there.

Tyan is a good brand, read up on the part you are interested in.

[BlackDragon1971]

Of course the Threadripper 7950 something just released... you could spend $5000 on that...

[SupaKomputa]

1 hour ago, NastyNickel said:

Okay well that makes me feel a bit better, still don't wana spend $433 but I guess its there as a backup plan.

As for the ones on ali tho.. tbh.. if they work its hard to care.

The question is tho if theres actually anything quality enough out there to get that fits this budget style build without being absolute trash.

They do work, there are some established brand like Huananzhi and machinist. These boards are very popular in Russia, they have a dedicated community that reviews these boards.

 

Thing is a used ryzen chips are dirtcheap, you can build similar performing pc with newer hardware for a little bit more money.
 

[NastyNickel]

23 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Please do keep in mind ableton needs BOTH high end single core performance AND loves threads. The xeons severly lack in the single core performance park so depending on how many tracks you use it is often smart to get a higher single core performance cpu over a broad multi core one.

 

I now far better understand what you are trying to do and can far better advice you on the path.

 

So now the issue is analyzing what happens more often in your workflow because ableton does multithreading in a very crude but also effective way and at the basic level it puts 1 thread per track. Only adding a bunch of simultanious effects trigerrs multi thread per track.

 

I do lightly use ableton and fl so I get the issue.

 

The xeons are the worst but also not the best option out there however for your budget IF you get the right one it might be the best option.

 

Id opt for the higher clocked 24 core one as it will boost higher in single core which should be better overall than the much lower 2ghz base 32 core you have there (which also overal compute isnt too much faster)

I mean I outlined 3 budget cpu options in xeon.

Pretty disheartening to have people comment on here and ignore everything I said.

$110 - 6342 - 45.5k passmark benchmark
$120 - 6336Y - 47k passmark benchmark
$155 - 8360Y - 54k passmark benchmark

These xeon cpus are stronger than the entire 12th i core generation, only the i9-12900k comes even close but doesn't beat any of them.

None of those cpus have above 64core so it won't be limited by ableton - meaning it will be able to use the entire cpus raw power when doing rendering of the project files.

People are using i3s but not getting as good of results as people who use i9s despite the i9 having lower clock speeds - its not about high clock speeds - its about total raw power and having enough threads to not get overloaded.

Nobody gona talk about lga4189 mobos or ali mobos?

There is no other option in the market today that can get me this high of a benchmark under a grand for the build, ideally under 800.

[NastyNickel]

13 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

They do work, there are some established brand like Huananzhi and machinist. These boards are very popular in Russia, they have a dedicated community that reviews these boards.

 

Thing is a used ryzen chips are dirtcheap, you can build similar performing pc with newer hardware for a little bit more money.
 

I'm open to suggestions.

IF you want to link me up with some 40k+ passmark benchmark ryzen chips that are dirt cheap - I'm down.

But all the ryzen cips I see that are not even dirt cheap are like half that at best.

Really have not been impressed with amd at all in both the new and used market when it comes to raw power - benchmarks - not just clock speeds or core counts cuz that matters very little to me as long as I have enough cores to do my tasks, its just about the raw power than at that point.

[NastyNickel]

25 minutes ago, BlackDragon1971 said:

Of course the Threadripper 7950 something just released... you could spend $5000 on that...

Ahh so your just a troll.

"go spend 5000 on a cpu for your budget project that has a $800 budget, its within budget, go grab it!"

Maybe it was a mistake posting this here... 

Like I'm spoon feeding you cpus that have twice the benchmark of the cpu you talk about but only cost $120 but your gona go off about $5000 threadrippers.. why?

How is a threadripper a better budget build at 5000 than a 120 cpu and 433 mobo?

I think your missing the whole point here.. Honestly man if your just gona derail this whole thread repeatedly I'd like to kindly ask you to go do it elsewhere.