Is there a limit to ram speed at 128GB of RAM?

[Phoenix1]

or is there something wrong with my system?
 

i have bought 2 of these kits: https://www.newegg.com/patriot-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820221070 a while ago and recently noticed that even after enabling XMP in my bios (for ASROCK X570 Taichi) the ram speed is shown as 2667 Mhz in windows task manager.
All 4 DIMM slots are populated with a 32GB stick, same ram type.

 

there was no DRAM profile detected when I went into my bios and I could not find it as being officially supported by my board but there was an XMP profile that when enabled sets the voltage to 1.35v and 3600 as the speed, however as stated above, I still only see 2667 Mhz in task manager.

I also went and updated my BIOS to one of the latest beta versions but no luck, any help?

Edit: CPU is a Ryzen 7 5800X3D

Edited October 26, 2023 by Phoenix1
updated info

[Zando_]

Task manager is the worst possible tool to use for this (2nd being HWMonitor). Task Manager is great for seeing what system resources are being used at a glance, but often shows hilariously wrong clocks (folks have had it report 25GHz CPU clocks, for example). Use CPU-Z, or HWiNFO64 if you want a monitoring software also. Both of these read the actual DIMM clock, so for 3600Mhz the clock should be 1800Mhz. For example, here's what they read for my 3600Mhz kit on my Ryzen machine (3700X CPU, B450 board):

[GSTARR]

6 minutes ago, Phoenix1 said:

or is there something wrong with my system?
 

i have bought 2 of these kits: https://www.newegg.com/patriot-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820221070 a while ago and recently noticed that even after enabling XMP in my bios (for ASROCK X570 Taichi) the ram speed is shown as 2667 Mhz in windows task manager.
All 4 DIMM slots are populated with a 32GB stick, same ram type.

 

there was no DRAM profile detected when I went into my bios and I could not find it as being officially supported by my board but there was an XMP profile that when enabled sets the voltage to 1.35v and 3600 as the speed, however as stated above, I still only see 2667 Mhz in task manager.

I also went and updated my BIOS to one of the latest beta versions but no luck, any help?

Edit: CPU is a Ryzen 7 5800X3D

When I look up your CPU these are the specs I see for RAM:

 

2x1R: DDR4-3200

2x2R: DDR4-3200

4x1R: DDR4-2933

4x2R: DDR4-2667

 

I don't know if XMP has to follow these rules, or if it really is the max speed capable. But it would explain why your 4 channels are running at 2667

 

[Phoenix1]

4 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Task manager is the worst possible tool to use for this (2nd being HWMonitor). Task Manager is great for seeing what system resources are being used at a glance, but often shows hilariously wrong clocks (folks have had it report 25GHz CPU clocks, for example). Use CPU-Z, or HWiNFO64 if you want a monitoring software also. Both of these read the actual DIMM clock, so for 3600Mhz the clock should be 1800Mhz. For example, here's what they read for my 3600Mhz kit on my Ryzen machine (3700X CPU, B450 board):

Thanks for the reply!

No luck it seems, checked HWiNFO as well and clocks show 1,333.0 MHz as well

 

[Phoenix1]

3 minutes ago, GSTARR said:

When I look up your CPU these are the specs I see for RAM:

 

2x1R: DDR4-3200

2x2R: DDR4-3200

4x1R: DDR4-2933

4x2R: DDR4-2667

 

I don't know if XMP has to follow these rules, or if it really is the max speed capable. But it would explain why your 4 channels are running at 2667

 

I see, I'm not too knowledgeable on this but looking up the page for the 5800X3D shows the same max speeds, Im not quite sure what the difference between 4x1R and 4x2R, but it looks like I may have the 4x2R, if that's the case looks like there's not much I can do.

[Zando_]

6 minutes ago, Phoenix1 said:

Thanks for the reply!

No luck it seems, checked HWiNFO as well and clocks show 1,333.0 MHz as well
-snip-

Ah, then it's likely something related to what @GSTARR pointed out. Likely failed to run the XMP speed and defaulted to base spec. You can try manually keying in the XMP speed, main 4 timings, and voltage, letting the motherboard sort all the sub-timings itself. Raise the RAM voltage a bit (assuming XMP is 1.35, AFAIK you're fine up to 1.4v easily) and see if it'll run stable. If it won't, then your IMC likely just won't run 4x 32GB DIMMs at that speed and you'll have to drop back. Should be able to get higher than 2666 to run though.

[Alex Atkin UK]

5 minutes ago, Phoenix1 said:

I see, I'm not too knowledgeable on this but looking up the page for the 5800X3D shows the same max speeds, Im not quite sure what the difference between 4x1R and 4x2R, but it looks like I may have the 4x2R, if that's the case looks like there's not much I can do.

DDR4-3200 is about the sweet spot for AM4, you could possibly try downclocking it but the problem is there wont be an XMP profile for it so your timings wont be ideal unless you spend ages trying to find the best settings.

 

That said, it may still be better than base clock.  I'd be tempted to try to swap the RAM for 3200 if you can find any in that capacity though.

 

Your screenshot is curious, as it looks like its using the timings for 3600 at base clock (RAM timing experts chime in here), the worst of both worlds.

[Phoenix1]

14 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Ah, then it's likely something related to what @GSTARR pointed out. Likely failed to run the XMP speed and defaulted to base spec. You can try manually keying in the XMP speed, main 4 timings, and voltage, letting the motherboard sort all the sub-timings itself. Raise the RAM voltage a bit (assuming XMP is 1.35, AFAIK you're fine up to 1.4v easily) and see if it'll run stable. If it won't, then your IMC likely just won't run 4x 32GB DIMMs at that speed and you'll have to drop back. Should be able to get higher than 2666 to run though.

I see on the ram page the timings are 18-22-22-42
below are the current values which appear to be the same as the ones on the page, do I need to change anything here? I also set the voltage to 1.4 but the speed is still the same as before.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Set 19-22-22-22-60

Vsoc at 1.15v

Vdimm at 1.4v

Memory frequency at 3600

 

If that doesnt work try 3200 instead at 1.35v

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, RP5715 said:

Any future upgrades will be something a whole lot more powerful, like the Ryzen 9 7950X or whatever is good at the time, so that will probably be a build from scratch, maybe reusing the SSD but thats about it tbh. I just wanna get something that will work best with what ive got for now, at a reasonable price.

A cheap used 5800X3D or 5950X in a couple years would extend the useful life if the platform far further, the 2700 is already long in the tooth, it's not worth buying a whole new platform just to buy another whole new platform in a couple years when current platforms aren't prohibitively expensive and are much faster.

1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

All the AM4 chips are rated at 3200, they can run faster but its more a lottery.  I ran a 5950X on 3200 and it seemed to perform within the expected range.

Most (practically all) Zen 2 (3000 series barring the -G APUs) chips will run 3600Mhz. Some will run 3800 but it's more rare, thus 3600Mhz being the community agreed upon "sweet spot". Zen/Zen+ wouldn't reach a high enough IF clock and had some issues with their IMCs so they didn't like higher speeds than 3200Mhz unless you bought very specific kits and had good luck with the silicon lottery.

 

I ran Zen and Zen+ back when they were current, I've kept up with the platform as I use them at work (and I'm just in IT in general so it's good stuff to know). I have a 3700X now, I run that with 3600Mhz RAM same as most people, have had 0 issues. Before that this 3700X was in a machine at work running 24/7 at ~90% memory usage with a different 3600 kit for over a year, then went into a NAS with the same kit still, also 0 issues.

2 minutes ago, Phoenix1 said:

I see on the ram page the timings are 18-22-22-42
below are the current values which appear to be the same as the ones on the page, do I need to change anything here? I also set the voltage to 1.4 but the speed is still the same as before.

I'd try @Somerandomtechyboi's settings, they do a bunch of manual OCing so should know manual tuning better.

[Alex Atkin UK]

3 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Most (practically all) Zen 2 (3000 series barring the -G APUs) chips will run 3600Mhz. Some will run 3800 but it's more rare, thus 3600Mhz being the community agreed upon "sweet spot". Zen/Zen+ wouldn't reach a high enough IF clock and had some issues with their IMCs so they didn't like higher speeds than 3200Mhz unless you bought very specific kits and had good luck with the silicon lottery.

 

I ran Zen and Zen+ back when they were current, I've kept up with the platform as I use them at work (and I'm just in IT in general so it's good stuff to know). I have a 3700X now, I run that with 3600Mhz RAM same as most people, have had 0 issues. Before that this 3700X was in a machine at work running 24/7 at ~90% memory usage with a different 3600 kit for over a year, then went into a NAS with the same kit still, also 0 issues.

I'd try @Somerandomtechyboi's settings, they do a bunch of manual OCing so should know manual tuning better.

Good to know, I guess I didn't keep up with the AGESA improvements since the 5000 series launched where getting above 3200 was problematic.

[Zando_]

Just now, Alex Atkin UK said:

But there is the issue that the 2700 should handle 3200 and getting the timings right on a 3600 kit could be problematic.

How so, run a 3600MHz CL16 kit at 3200Mhz and you have a 3200Mhz CL16 kit. Some timings may be a little loose for 3200Mhz, but nothing to worry about.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Just now, Zando_ said:

How so, run a 3600MHz CL16 kit at 3200Mhz and you have a 3200Mhz CL16 kit. Some timings may be a little loose for 3200Mhz, but nothing to worry about.

Ignore what I said before about 2700, straddling two AMD threads and misposted.

[Phoenix1]

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Set 19-22-22-22-60

Vsoc at 1.15v

Vdimm at 1.4v

Memory frequency at 3600

 

If that doesnt work try 3200 instead at 1.35v

Im assuming I did this right, it would not let me set 1.4 exactly and the max I could go for the last timing was 58, booted up now but no luck, still stuck at the same 2667 MHz, will try 3200 instead at 1.35v next

[Somerandomtechyboi]

18 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

I'd try @Somerandomtechyboi's settings, they do a bunch of manual OCing so should know manual tuning better.

I dont have any experience with ddr4 yet but ive researched it quite a bit so im basically just using references and experience from ddr3

 

slow speeds (<4000) seem to be just as easy as clocking ddr3 only requiring a few simple adjustments, except on ddr3 i can clock 3000+ with just a few adjustments whereas ddr4 might need alot more adjustments than that for high speed (4600+), but hey theres always plugging in someones overclock and using that as a base

[Phoenix1]

26 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Set 19-22-22-22-60

Vsoc at 1.15v

Vdimm at 1.4v

Memory frequency at 3600

 

If that doesnt work try 3200 instead at 1.35v

Good news! 3200 at 1.35v works! it's not 3600 but better than 2667 MHz! Thanks!

[Somerandomtechyboi]

14 minutes ago, Phoenix1 said:

Good news! 3200 at 1.35v works! it's not 3600 but better than 2667 MHz! Thanks!

What happens if you set 3600 again from 3200?

[Phoenix1]

18 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

What happens if you set 3600 again from 3200?

Goes back to 2667 MHz

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, Phoenix1 said:

Goes back to 2667 MHz

How about multis in the middle like 3466 or 3533, maybe even multis above 3600 like 3733?

[Phoenix1]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

How about multis in the middle like 3466 or 3533, maybe even multis above 3600 like 3733?

Interesting! Only tested 3533 and 3733,
3733 - defaults back to 2667 MHz but 3533 works, im pretty satisfied with that!

keeping SOC at 1.1 and Vdimm at 1.35, will run a few tests to check stability!

[GSTARR]

14 hours ago, Phoenix1 said:

I see, I'm not too knowledgeable on this but looking up the page for the 5800X3D shows the same max speeds, Im not quite sure what the difference between 4x1R and 4x2R, but it looks like I may have the 4x2R, if that's the case looks like there's not much I can do.

Well if you have the receipts you can exchange them for 2 64gb sticks and you can then get the 2 channel ram

 

Or you can accept a small loss, sell your sticks and buy 2 64gb sticks

 

Edit: Reading all of these technical posts after posting this, telling you to just buy different sticks was a hilarious addition to this thread

[Phoenix1]

Appears stable so far from what I can see, next up im trying to see if I can get lower timings using the DRAM calculator, but I don't think my memory type is listed/supported, Die is listed as, is Alius a completely different manufacturer from Micron/Hynix/Samsung?

16 Gb M-die (Alius / 18 nm) / 1 die

[Phoenix1]

Alright, so CPU-Z shows it as being Hynix and im guessing since it's "M-die" it's Hynix MFR? does that sound correct?

If so, looks like my setup is unsupported as reported by the calculator