Thoughts on a new build

Janocte · October 18, 2023

Budget (including currency): $2500 USD

Country: USA

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Work, Data Analysis, COD, BG3, etc.

Other details (No additional peripherals, 11 years old PC w/ flash update to a 1070Ti before covid, by the first of the year, 1440P MAX and 60+, Here is a link to the build)

https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/custom-pc-builder.aspx?load=ab0b7fd5-af9c-4b9b-9b32-00f6b80fbcd8

What i have is working and i dont need to upgrade but would very much like to as I do work from home. Biggest question: Is now a bad time to buy? That is, will a new DDR6 or next gen of processors/nvidia graphics card be coming out early in 2024...meaning maybe i should hold off.

Thanks

brob · October 18, 2023

The i7-14700K was introduced today. (It has 4 more e-cores than the i7-13700K.) So today or this week is not a great time to buy a new system.

Depending on the market impact of today's Intel introductions, AMD may well introduce new models in early 2024.

There will always be new CPU and other tech on the horizon.

Janocte · October 18, 2023

WOW...what timing I have lol. Thanks for the heads up @brob!

Ill keep an eye out on price and how it effects the market

filpo · October 18, 2023

4 minutes ago, brob said:

The i7-14700K was introduced today. (It has 4 more e-cores than the i7-13700K.) So today or this week is not a great time to buy a new system.

But it's just a mid gen refresh. No real improvements

I say it's the perfect time to build a system with all the price drops for am5 and 12th and 13th gen as well as am4 for budget builds

Just now, Janocte said:

WOW...what timing I have lol. Thanks for the heads up @brob!

Ill keep an eye out on price and how it effects the market

Just get this build

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($369.56 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B650M-HDV/M.2 Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL28 Memory ($93.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: MSI SPATIUM M450 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB OC GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB Video Card ($1649.99 @ B&H)
Case: Phanteks Eclipse G300A (1 Fan) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: ARCTIC P12 PST 56.3 CFM 120 mm Fans 5-Pack ($29.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2513.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-10-18 12:26 EDT-0400

26 minutes ago, Janocte said:

Is now a bad time to buy?

no no no it's not

26 minutes ago, Janocte said:

will a new DDR6 or next gen of processors/nvidia graphics card be coming out early in 2024...meaning maybe i should hold off.

nope. DDR6 shouldn't be here till 2025 and 14th gen is only a light mid gen refresh (with 13th gen posing as much better value)

Janocte · October 18, 2023

@filpo Thanks so much! I will build my pc and buy over black friday.

Any thoughts on i-7 v Ryzen-7....

filpo · October 18, 2023

1 minute ago, Janocte said:

Any thoughts on i-7 v Ryzen-7...

ryzen 7 7800X3D is much better (lower power consumption, easier to cool, cheaper by a bit and performs better)

But if it's productivity then I'd say the 13900k is the king. Though it's impossible to cool. There's also the 7950X3D if productivity and gaming is your thing

Janocte · October 18, 2023

thanks @filpo ill probably go Ryzen

brob · October 18, 2023

3 minutes ago, filpo said:

ryzen 7 7800X3D is much better (lower power consumption, easier to cool, cheaper by a bit and performs better)

But if it's productivity then I'd say the 13900k is the king. Though it's impossible to cool. There's also the 7950X3D if productivity and gaming is your thing

X3D are not good choices for most productivity use cases.

An i9-14900K is not impossible to cool! It does favor a 360 or 420 AIO. Last I heard those are abundantly available.

5 minutes ago, Janocte said:

thanks @filpo ill probably go Ryzen

How about reading the reviews and analysis of the new CPU. I'm not arguing in favor of one flavor or another. Just want to point out that your optimal choice rests on your actual use case and preferences.

filpo · October 18, 2023

6 minutes ago, brob said:

It does favor a 360 or 420 AIO. Last I heard those are abundantly available.

have you watched the hardware unboxed review?

After 2 seconds of cinebench

6 minutes ago, brob said:

X3D are not good choices for most productivity use cases.

the 7950x3d isn't a good choice for productivity?

It has 16 REAL cores

brob · October 18, 2023

1 minute ago, filpo said:

have you watched the hardware unboxed review?

After 2 seconds of cinebench

or the gamers nexus one?

the 7950x3d isn't a good choice for productivity?

It has 16 REAL cores

Do you have a point beside the AMD CPU use less power? I don't think there is any debate over that issue. Doesn't automatically make them the optimal choice.

filpo · October 18, 2023

1 minute ago, brob said:

less power?

would you like your cpu to run at 65 degrees under a GAMING load while at only 20 percent usage too?

Hell my 5600 doesn't even break 50 under full core. Yes I know it's not an enthusiast cpu but still

Zando_ · October 18, 2023

47 minutes ago, filpo said:

have you watched the hardware unboxed review?

I cool a 400-500W chip with a 280mm AIO... It will get into the high 80s under allcore load but acting like that wattage is impossible to keep at safe temps is ignorant. A lot of folks who run mainstream chips are just terrified of a temperature over 80C or wattage over 300. These modern chips are fine running into the 90s at stock, and you can easily power limit them for 0 perceptible performance drop in actual use, shaving off like 100W of power draw.

41 minutes ago, filpo said:

would you like your cpu to run at 65 degrees under a GAMING load while at only 20 percent usage too?

That's a completely fine temp. 40-50C is ice cold, 60-70C is cool, 70-80C is warm, 90C is hot and unless you're pushing a bunch of voltage you need to be over 100C to actually have issues with Intel chips. I believe AMD chips want to stay below 90-95C, it depends on core count what they rate them for, and I believe some 6c chips have had issues if ran consistently into the 90s despite AMD's claims that it's safe.

53 minutes ago, filpo said:

the 7950x3d isn't a good choice for productivity?

It has 16 REAL cores

It's worse than the cheaper non-X3D, productivity workloads do not like the weird split cache. It's also worse in games than the cheaper 7800X3D, as games don't like the weird split cache either. It's an odd chip and not a great choice unless you really cannot decide on the priority for your PC.

52 minutes ago, brob said:

Do you have a point beside the AMD CPU use less power? I don't think there is any debate over that issue. Doesn't automatically make them the optimal choice.

^^^ Basically this. Intel can be a good choice, or AMD can be a good choice, depends on OP's priorities and what they're actually doing. Some stuff runs better on Intel chips, other stuff on AMD, most things just don't care. Some people care about power draw and others don't, so harping on that one platform is inherently better than the other simply because it caters to what you prefer, is rather silly when making suggestions to other people.

1 hour ago, Janocte said:

That is, will a new DDR6 or next gen of processors/nvidia graphics card be coming out early in 2024...meaning maybe i should hold off.

There's always something new on the horizon... generally unless it's 3 months or less away it isn't worth holding for, as you'll just be stuck in an infinite loop then. DDR6 won't be for ages given DDR5 just dropped, I haven't seen any rumors of stuff releasing early next year though I also don't really keep up with rumors, so they need to be quite big for me to notice them.

It's a pretty solid time to build as others have stated, you can get very good CPU/mobo/RAM combos for a lot less $ than they used to be. The GPU situation is... less good if you want anything above midrange (RTX 3060/RX 6700XT level), but still pretty decent.

I'd check and see if the software you use for work has any platform preference for performance/stability, if that software doesn't care then just decide whether you care about power draw or not, and pick based off that if you have no other bias/preference. Realistically the difference between Intel and AMD right now is a tiny %age in games, you'd have to look at the exact titles you actually play regularly to make any decision based off that. Linus did so and ended up picking AMD as it was slightly better in the large sim games he plays:

Worth nothing that this is from before the X3D chips released, those are even faster in large games as those tend to like lots of cache (I believe some shooters benefit as well, though they tend to run at such high fps anyways that it rarely matters unless you're super-competitive about them).

Janocte · October 18, 2023

So...first, @filpo @brob...glad things didnt come to blows lol. I get what you're both saying from you're own perspective. Power draw can be a concern and major overheating can be an issue. Im not overly concerned about power draw (as ill be buying a 1000W) but certainly wouldnt want to go all in on a top-tier chipset that is actively having overheating issues. @Zando_ makes some good points. Specifically, that a mid-60's or even 70's for temp isnt really alarming in modern chips. BUT if theyre getting into the upper 80's or higher, and staying there, that would be a much bigger issue. Thanks for those thoughts btw!

For my needs and use cases, its a coin toss between the "Core i7-13700K" & the "7800X3D". I would be using it on data work, video conferencing, minor adobe work (nothing ridiculously productivity heavy). I will likely want to focus more of the computers energy into gaming (COD, BG3, Starfield), so it sounds like either chipset would be good within a %age point or two. If im reading the comments correct. Plus they are at the right pricepoint. I'm putting the extra $300 into a 4070, rather than putting that $300 into say an i9/Ryzen 9 to accomplish some kind of future-proofing or productivity increase.

I guess i should ask explicitly...Is there is actual temp issues with the chosen intel chip, over the Ryzen one? Please feel free to expound on those further. Thx

Zando_ · October 18, 2023

Just now, Janocte said:

Specifically, that a mid-60's or even 70's for temp isnt really alarming in modern chips. BUT if theyre getting into the upper 80's or higher, and staying there, that would be a much bigger issue.

Oh no, Intel chips can run into the 90s easily without issue, provided you're not pushing voltages above stock. Laptop chips are an especially good example of this, they regularly run 99-100C flat under any decent load, and do so for years and years without failure. High temps can be uncomfortable with high voltage when overclocking (as this can cause electromigration, degrading the chip), and I have seen reports that some AMD chips had issues with this at lower temps than AMD claimed as safe (although AMD chips are also more sensitive to voltage so I wouldn't be surprised if some motherboard OEM had their board feeding too much voltage through the chips at that temp). I haven't seen reports of that with Intel chips, though motherboard OEMs do also try and enable stuff like MCE by default, which often feeds way too much voltage into the CPU. Usually that causes such a massive temp spike that people notice and disable it though.

filpo · October 18, 2023

45 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

It's worse than the cheaper non-X3D, productivity workloads do not like the weird split cache. It's also worse in games than the cheaper 7800X3D,

It is much easier to cool though. With it drawing 100 watts less than the 7950x

45 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

It's also worse in games than the cheaper 7800X3D, as games don't like the weird split cache either. It's an odd chip and not a great choice unless you really cannot decide on the priority for your PC.

Not entirely true. They trade blows. But for gaming the 7800X3D is much cheaper

46 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

That's a completely fine temp. 40-50C is ice cold, 60-70C is cool, 70-80C is warm, 90C is hot and unless you're pushing a bunch of voltage you need to be over 100C to actually have issues with Intel chips.

Maybe it's just me but doesn't closer to 50 degrees C seem more reasonable for a cpu's temp during a gaming load?

1 hour ago, brob said:

Do you have a point beside the AMD CPU use less power? I don't think there is any debate over that issue. Doesn't automatically make them the optimal choice.

In hindsight I see Brob is right. Sorry for the doubt. I still got a bit to learn ig

brob · October 18, 2023

13 minutes ago, Janocte said:

Specifically, that a mid-60's or even 70's for temp isnt really alarming in modern chips. BUT if theyre getting into the upper 80's or higher, and staying there, that would be a much bigger issue.

No. Staying in the high 90's might be a concern, but otherwise 90's is fine. A quote from https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-7900x-cpu-review, highlight is mine:

"The 7950X hovered around 5.2 GHz through the most intense workloads when all cores were fully loaded. Peak power consumption reached 215W. The 7950X peaked at 90C during the test run but mostly hovered around 87C, which AMD assures us is expected behavior — the chip is designed to consume all available thermal headroom to provide faster performance."

Zando_ · October 18, 2023

5 minutes ago, filpo said:

Maybe it's just me but doesn't closer to 50 degrees C seem more reasonable for a cpu's temp during a gaming load?

Why? So long as the chip is running cool enough to avoid violating max safe (or a reasonable lower limit when manually overclocking), what does the temp matter at all? I'd be concerned if a chip was in the 80s under light gaming loads, as that probably means it'll get much hotter under allcore loads. Though if it never sees those loads then it realistically doesn't matter much. Also, more modern titles will actually load up a CPU heavily anyways, so "gaming load" doesn't always mean a light CPU load.

20 minutes ago, filpo said:

Not entirely true. They trade blows.

Ah, it may have been when the chip released and wasn't properly supported in windows' core scheduler then? I remember it having issues if games were assigned cores that weren't on the CCD with the cache, and thus being a more inconsistent experience than the 7800X3D.

filpo · October 18, 2023

Just now, Zando_ said:

Why? So long as the chip is running cool enough to avoid violating max safe (or a reasonable lower limit when manually overclocking), what does the temp matter at all?

Well I just like to be cautious. Honestly I don't know why it should to me

1 minute ago, Zando_ said:

Also, more modern titles will actually load up a CPU heavily anyways, so "gaming load" doesn't always mean a light CPU load.

that's a fair point too. But when I see and say 'gaming load' I assume 'not 60%-80% usage'

2 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Ah, it may have been when the chip released and wasn't properly supported in windows' core scheduler then?

Yes probably. As I took those pics from the 7800X3D reviews not the 7950X3D reviews

3 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

I remember it having issues if games were assigned cores that weren't on the CCD with the cache, and thus being a more inconsistent experience than the 7800X3D.

That may have been the problem comparing to 2nd CCD on vs off but I don't see any more complaints about it

Janocte · October 19, 2023

Spent some time watching vids and reading last evening. I believe im sold on the 7800X3D and an accompanying 4070.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and assistance!

Guille.R · October 19, 2023

The build seems pretty good the only thing is that if u finally go with the 7800x3d you should use low latency memory sticks, 5600MHz CL28 or 6000MHz CL30, that is a lot better for am5 and only a little bit expensier than what you have now. Also if u chose the parts on pcpartpicker (wich searches most well-known sellers) it would be pretty cheaper and u could probably fit a 4080 or a 7900XTX in the budget.