Radiator placement question

[dugacs]

I am looking forward to buy a radiator with 2 or 3 fans. I have 2 case fans on the top 3 in the front and 1 in the back. I was wondering whether I can put a 3 fan radiator on the front panel so one side has the case fans and one side has the radiator and its 3 fans.

Or I can get a 2 fan one on the top but it's only 120mm wide (I got 140mm fans now), so it won't look that nice.

My case id the Deepcool CC560 white with custom fans (not the original ones), 3 pieces of 120mm in the front, 2 of 140mm on top, and 1 of 120mm at the back.

My main question is that how would i be better?

[TylerD321]

Here is what your case supports for radiators:

 

Quote

Front: 120/140/240/280/360mm
Top: 120/240mm
Rear: 120mm

DeepCool-CC560

I prefer 360 mm rad on the front, but if your GPU won't fit with a radiator in the front, just get a 240mm radiator for the top.

[dugacs]

thanks!

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, dugacs said:

I am looking forward to buy a radiator with 2 or 3 fans. I have 2 case fans on the top 3 in the front and 1 in the back. I was wondering whether I can put a 3 fan radiator on the front panel so one side has the case fans and one side has the radiator and its 3 fans.

Or I can get a 2 fan one on the top but it's only 120mm wide (I got 140mm fans now), so it won't look that nice.

My case id the Deepcool CC560 white with custom fans (not the original ones), 3 pieces of 120mm in the front, 2 of 140mm on top, and 1 of 120mm at the back.

My main question is that how would i be better?

Generally, a top mounted radiator is better if you're only using one radiator. The main advantage of water cooling being the ability to transport heat away from the heat generating component(s) to more efficiently transfer it out of the system. With this, having that heat generating source NOT exhaust into the case is going to be better for thermodynamics, especially considering that the GPU in most systems is going to have a higher wattage draw and be more thermally sensitive to actual performance.

 

Regarding radiator size, that case fits a 240mm AIO which is sufficient for everything but a 13900k in my opinion.

 

The problem with mounting radiators in the front is you're generally going to only get the 'no no' configuration with the tubes at the top. So unless the tubes can not only reach the bottom fan mount but also not interfere with the GPU (unlikely) then its not worth it for longevity reasons in my opinion. 

[TylerD321]

2 minutes ago, Agall said:

The problem with mounting radiators in the front is you're generally going to only get the 'no no' configuration with the tubes at the top. So unless the tubes can not only reach the bottom fan mount but also not interfere with the GPU (unlikely) then its not worth it for longevity reasons in my opinion. 

This is generally true, but I prefer front mounted radiator for my CPU. Though this may not be the case for everyone.

 

The main reason I recommended front mounted is so they don't have to move fans around they can just put their existing fans on the AIO they choose. With a 240 up top they will have to either live with the radiators fans or buy matching fans.

[dugacs]

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

Generally, a top mounted radiator is better if you're only using one radiator. The main advantage of water cooling being the ability to transport heat away from the heat generating component(s) to more efficiently transfer it out of the system. With this, having that heat generating source NOT exhaust into the case is going to be better for thermodynamics, especially considering that the GPU in most systems is going to have a higher wattage draw and be more thermally sensitive to actual performance.

 

Regarding radiator size, that case fits a 240mm AIO which is sufficient for everything but a 13900k in my opinion.

 

The problem with mounting radiators in the front is you're generally going to only get the 'no no' configuration with the tubes at the top. So unless the tubes can not only reach the bottom fan mount but also not interfere with the GPU (unlikely) then its not worth it for longevity reasons in my opinion. 

So if I get a 3 fans radiato in the front it won't fit?

And I didnt understand the last 2 lines. Is the tube location the problem(top of the rad or bottom)?

[TylerD321]

9 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So if I get a 3 fans radiato in the front it won't fit?

And I didnt understand the last 2 lines. Is the tube location the problem(top of the rad or bottom)?

Here is the answer to your tube question...

 

AiO Water Cooling Best Setup (Don't Get It Wrong) | CCL (cclonline.com)

 

What gpu do you have to answer the "will it fit" question?

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, TylerD321 said:

This is generally true, but I prefer front mounted radiator for my CPU. Though this may not be the case for everyone.

 

The main reason I recommended front mounted is so they don't have to move fans around they can just put their existing fans on the AIO they choose. With a 240 up top they will have to either live with the radiators fans or buy matching fans.

I care so little for aesthetics that something like that rarely crosses my mind.

 

6 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So if I get a 3 fans radiato in the front it won't fit?

And I didnt understand the last 2 lines. Is the tube location the problem(top of the rad or bottom)?

The tubes go into one side of a radiator. Whenever you front mount that radiator, the tubes are either positioned at the top or bottom. Without getting deep into fluid dynamics, having the tubes at the top can prematurely kill the pump of an AIO because of fluid loss and cavitation. That's the 'no no' configuration. It's however a possibility, not a certainty that it will cause issues before the AIO needs to be replaced anyways in ~5 years.

 

The solution to that is having the tubes at the bottom, but unless the tubes are hilariously longer than normal, its unlikely to reach, regardless of having a graphics card in the way.

 

 

[alyen]

2 minutes ago, TylerD321 said:

This is generally true, but I prefer front mounted radiator for my CPU. Though this may not be the case for everyone.

I also prefer the front mounted radiator. It really depends on your components and what you intend to do.

 

If you are planning for a open loop the typical Deep Cool cases with the basement chamber shroud extends out too far towards the front making it not as ideal for water cooling without cutting or removing the shroud. This case looks more suited for a AIO than a custom loops. I have made a custom loop with Deep Cool cases with similiar chassis, but I removed the shroud to make room for the pump and also made things easier to work with. I'm not sure about that CC560, but it looks like fans can also be mounted on the outter front of the case while the front cover is still on like many of their cases. You don't need to remove the shroud if you don't go with standard pumps.

 

From looking at the pics of the case it looks like a 280mm radiator and fan can fit, its likely you have to use a slimmer type radiator. Using something like the Arctic Liquid Freezer you may run into problems with spacing if your memory sticks are higher profile.

6 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So if I get a 3 fans radiato in the front it won't fit?

And I didnt understand the last 2 lines. Is the tube location the problem(top of the rad or bottom)?

If you mount a 360 in the front you may need to mount the tubes on top, because the the lower chamber shroud may not allow you to smoothly flex AIO tubes towards the CPU. If you are going for a AIO I would not recommend it for this case even though I'm sure it could fit.

[dugacs]

And if I buy a 240mm radiator, only that 2 fans would fit in the front, but if I buy the 240mm, it can hold + 1 fan.

The top can only hold 2 of the 140mm or 2 of the 120mm fans so 280mm aio would be perfect as top radiator, but I don't know that it should be intake or exhaust.

 

Sorry, I am not into water cooling so I don't know nothing about it.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by dugacs
Opinion changed

[TylerD321]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

I care so little for aesthetics that something like that rarely crosses my mind.

 

The tubes go into one side of a radiator. Whenever you front mount that radiator, the tubes are either positioned at the top or bottom. Without getting deep into fluid dynamics, having the tubes at the top can prematurely kill the pump of an AIO because of fluid loss and cavitation. That's the 'no no' configuration. It's however a possibility, not a certainty that it will cause issues before the AIO needs to be replaced anyways in ~5 years.

The simple explanation is that having the tubes at the bottom prevents the pump from running dry.

[TylerD321]

1 minute ago, dugacs said:

And if I buy a 240mm radiator and put it on the top, should it be intake or exhaust?

 

It should be exhaust.

[Agall]

44 minutes ago, dugacs said:

And if I buy a 240mm radiator and put it on the top, should it be intake or exhaust?

 

You should almost always iexhaust through the top. There're very few scenarios where the latter is optimal. That's for various reasons, including the internal layout and natural convection. 

[dugacs]

So instead of the 3 fan or 2 fan front aio, I should put a 280mm aio on the top?

Also I already have 2 140mm fans so can I go with those instead of the ones that come with the aio?

Can I put fans on each side of the top radiator(like original ones on the top and the ones taht come with the aio on the bottom)?

[TylerD321]

11 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So instead of the 3 fan or 2 fan front aio, I should put a 280mm aio on the top?

Also I already have 2 140mm fans so can I go with those instead of the ones that come with the aio?

Can I put fans on each side of the top radiator(like original ones on the top and the ones taht come with the aio on the bottom)?

I doubt you’d have ram clearance if you tried to put them on both side. Who knows if you can make 280 work because it isn’t officially supported

[RevGAM]

24 minutes ago, Agall said:

You should almost always exhaust through the top. There're very few scenarios where the latter is optimal. That's for various reasons, including the internal layout and natural convection. 

Ok, so what about the results in https://www.msi.com/blog/how-to-place-your-liquid-cooler that show front intake, tubes down being the best option by a few degrees? Is that case specific, an anomaly or something else?

 

Recommendation: front for 360, top or front for 240mm rad. 

Note that some of the arrows are incorrectly colored. 

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

Ok, so what about the results in https://www.msi.com/blog/how-to-place-your-liquid-cooler that show front intake, tubes down being the best option by a few degrees? Is that case specific, an anomaly or something else?

 

Recommendation: front for 360, top or front for 240mm rad. 

Note that some of the arrows are incorrectly colored. 

[RevGAM]

Just now, Agall said:

I also corrected the typo that was the opposite of what I intended to say  

So that means MSI's article is correct?

[dugacs]

So if I buy a 280mm aio and it doesn't fit on top mount, should I place it on the front (there will only be 2 fans in the middle of the front of the case, really ugly), or just buy a 240mm on top or front to make sure it fits?

[Agall]

9 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

So that means MSI's article is correct?

I was confused.

 

Regarding your actual comment, it really depends.

 

I tested this with my dual AIO setup with a 6900 XT and 5800x3D. The difference in wattage into the system being dramatically different between the two radiators, one being in excess of 300W and the latter being ~60W. Obviously the GPU radiator was put at the top, since I'd rather put that energy out of the case ASAP over inside. The difference in internal temperature being substantial which does impair the fluid dynamics of the case, including the front radiator.

 

If you have to choose, even with one AIO, I believe it optimal to get rid of that energy instead of putting it into the system.

 

The problem with a lot of the standardized testing, just like my disagreements with Gamer Nexus' case benchmarking, is they're using relatively low wattage parts. Things dramatically change when you're overwhelming a mechanism within the case for transporting that energy. In the scenario of a low wattage part, its far more difficult to break the fluid dynamics and thermodynamics of the case, following some basic rules of its design.

 

There's a lot of variables that are component dependent, but generally following the basic rules of the case configuration and mitigating the heat into the system is optimal. If your choice is between exhausting 60-200W into the case or out of the case, its almost always better to do the latter.

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So if I buy a 280mm aio and it doesn't fit on top mount, should I place it on the front (there will only be 2 fans in the middle of the front of the case, really ugly), or just buy a 240mm on top or front to make sure it fits?

I'd stay away from 280mm AIOs unless your case already supports a top/side mount option. 280mm AIOs usually don't fit in cases that have 2x140mm fan mounts, so they're quite limited. I have an EKWB 280mm elite AIO that I've ran into this problem within several mid-tower size cases. You can technically get it mounted, but its not designed to.

[dugacs]

12 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'd stay away from 280mm AIOs unless your case already supports a top/side mount option. 280mm AIOs usually don't fit in cases that have 2x140mm fan mounts, so they're quite limited. I have an EKWB 280mm elite AIO that I've ran into this problem within several mid-tower size cases. You can technically get it mounted, but its not designed to.

So should I go with a 240mm on top or front (I have 3 places for fans in the front, so I will put it in the upper 2, and a fan under it)?

I guess the front is better because of the MSI spreadsheet that the other guy posted above.

[dugacs]

I think I'll go with the ID-Cooling Auraflow X 240 Snow Edition on 2 upper fan slot on the front so I can put 2 layer of fans on it.

[Agall]

52 minutes ago, dugacs said:

So should I go with a 240mm on top or front (I have 3 places for fans in the front, so I will put it in the upper 2, and a fan under it)?

I guess the front is better because of the MSI spreadsheet that the other guy posted above.

I disagree. I would recommend a 240mm and top mount it given your case, assuming you're not putting it on a 13900k. In that scenario, you'd want a case with a top 360mm radiator support or an NH-D15 instead.

 

3 front intake, two top exhaust with the radiator. You can add a rear exhaust as well if you have a spare fan. 

 

 

Blue being 'cold', orange being moderate, red being hot. A point of concern being the green circle, which can get stagnant if you're not balancing the fan configuration and fan curve properly. Pink being an example of a direct airflow exhaust for the radiator. I really don't see the downside of this configuration from a thermodynamics and fluid dynamics standpoint, the only exception being if your GPU has a 240mm AIO as well, which most definitely should be top mounted due to the 3-5x increase energy output from a GPU AIO radiator.

[dugacs]

38 minutes ago, Agall said:

I disagree. I would recommend a 240mm and top mount it given your case, assuming you're not putting it on a 13900k. In that scenario, you'd want a case with a top 360mm radiator support or an NH-D15 instead.

 

3 front intake, two top exhaust with the radiator. You can add a rear exhaust as well if you have a spare fan. 

 

 

Blue being 'cold', orange being moderate, red being hot. A point of concern being the green circle, which can get stagnant if you're not balancing the fan configuration and fan curve properly. Pink being an example of a direct airflow exhaust for the radiator. I really don't see the downside of this configuration from a thermodynamics and fluid dynamics standpoint, the only exception being if your GPU has a 240mm AIO as well, which most definitely should be top mounted due to the 3-5x increase energy output from a GPU AIO radiator.

Yes, but in that case, the radiator gets hot air so the cpu may not be well-cooled, also, my case can handle fans on the outside of the case with the front panel being on, so I can make double layer of fans for the radiator