X58 GPU upgrade

[j0hnsmith]

All,

 

I plan on breathing life one last time for my Asus Sabertooth X58 (LGA 1366). Currently running dual 980 TI's SLI which have treated me well for some time. I know the board is over a decade old but don't feel like doing a new build as my CPU is the 990x OC 4.40 GHz. For the most part, it plays games great with the exception for AVX. I recently came across a YT video of a user who had the same mobo rockin' the RTX 3080. His benchmarks looked really good for modern games, but this was done 2 years ago. Current prices for the card are still expensive. The lowest I could find was on eBay for around $729.

 

Anyways, I just helped a buddy of mine build his new PC. His video card is the 4070 which I believe he got for around $500-$600. I'm aware of the limitations of my PCI express on my mobo at 2.0. Both these cards are PCI Express Gen 4.

 

My question is wouldn't I be better off just grabbing the 4070 instead of overpaying for an outdated 3080 card, since they're both running at the same speed at PCI Express Gen 4.0?

[-rascal-]

3 minutes ago, j0hnsmith said:

All,

 

I plan on breathing life one last time for my Asus Sabertooth X58 (LGA 1366). Currently running dual 980 TI's SLI which have treated me well for some time. I know the board is over a decade old but don't feel like doing a new build as my CPU is the 990x OC 4.40 GHz. For the most part, it plays games great with the exception for AVX. I recently came across a YT video of a user who had the same mobo rockin' the RTX 3080. His benchmarks looked really good for modern games, but this was done 2 years ago. Current prices for the card are still expensive. The lowest I could find was on eBay for around $729.

 

Anyways, I just helped a buddy of mine build his new PC. His video card is the 4070 which I believe he got for around $500-$600. I'm aware of the limitations of my PCI express on my mobo at 2.0. Both these cards are PCI Express Gen 4.

 

My question is wouldn't I be better off just grabbing the 4070 instead of overpaying for an outdated 3080 card, since they're both running at the same speed at PCI Express Gen 4.0?

 

RTX 3080 is slightly faster than the RTX 4070.

But definitely not $130 ~ $230 more performance.

 

I would agree with you to get the RTX 4070 over the 3080.

Plus the RTX 4000-series has better support for DLSS, and as well as other features that are only supported by the 4000-series.

[j0hnsmith]

11 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

RTX 3080 is slightly faster than the RTX 4070.

But definitely not $130 ~ $230 more performance.

 

I would agree with you to get the RTX 4070 over the 3080.

Plus the RTX 4000-series has better support for DLSS, and as well as other features that are only supported by the 4000-series.

Yeah that's what I kinda figured. Thanks for the input.

[Dukesilver27-]

Hard to imagine an i7 990x not heavily bottlenecking a 3080, even in 4K, especially how games are becoming more and more CPU demanding.

In 1080p you'd want CPUs at least twice as fast as i7 990x.

[Zando_]

8 minutes ago, Dukesilver27- said:

Hard to imagine an i7 990x not heavily bottlenecking a 3080, even in 4K, especially how games are becoming more and more CPU demanding.

In 1080p you'd want CPUs at least twice as fast as i7 990x.

Massively depends on the game tbh, back when I ran my X58 stuff with a 1080 Ti/Radeon VII at 1080p, I only had issues with AC Odyssey and Star Citizen (both heavily CPU intensive games), stuff like Destiny 2 that doesn't really care, ran fine. If OP is sure they're just running out of GPU at this point, a 3080/4070 should be fine. Especially at higher resolutions. Worst case, OP has to upgrade the system anyways, and then they've already got a new GPU so... no real downside. Might as well try it before spending for a whole new rig.

[Needfuldoer]

18 minutes ago, Dukesilver27- said:

Hard to imagine an i7 990x not heavily bottlenecking a 3080, even in 4K, especially how games are becoming more and more CPU demanding.

In 1080p you'd want CPUs at least twice as fast as i7 990x.

I wouldn't worry about that, because any modern GPU is going to be bottlenecked by a platform that's more than a decade old. Might as well get a good one that won't become the bottleneck when the rest of the PC gets upgraded.

[Dukesilver27-]

3 hours ago, Zando_ said:

 

3 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

 

I'm not going to assume anything about OP, but based on what he says in the post, tyhe just assumes that their CPU is fast enough for both GPUs. And that he does not want to upgrade yet, yet you both says "when the rest of PC gets upgraded" or no harm in trying.

How do you know if they will upgrade them as well?

What if they'd have no budget for them or have to save more?

What if they regrets the GPU upgrade because now they have to upgrade the rest of PC to enjoy it?

Wouldn't it be better if they know all the information before buying the GPU? Temper their expectations a bit better?

 

I simply stated a fact that they do not seem to know, or at least ignoring it because of a youtube benchmark.

Besides, bottleneck is not always about lower fps, could also be stuttering, with a CPU and platform that old, stuttering should be somewhat expected.

[robotxbot]

1 hour ago, j0hnsmith said:

All,

 

I plan on breathing life one last time for my Asus Sabertooth X58 (LGA 1366). Currently running dual 980 TI's SLI which have treated me well for some time. I know the board is over a decade old but don't feel like doing a new build as my CPU is the 990x OC 4.40 GHz. For the most part, it plays games great with the exception for AVX. I recently came across a YT video of a user who had the same mobo rockin' the RTX 3080. His benchmarks looked really good for modern games, but this was done 2 years ago. Current prices for the card are still expensive. The lowest I could find was on eBay for around $729.

 

Anyways, I just helped a buddy of mine build his new PC. His video card is the 4070 which I believe he got for around $500-$600. I'm aware of the limitations of my PCI express on my mobo at 2.0. Both these cards are PCI Express Gen 4.

 

My question is wouldn't I be better off just grabbing the 4070 instead of overpaying for an outdated 3080 card, since they're both running at the same speed at PCI Express Gen 4.0?

???

 

1 hour ago, -rascal- said:

 

RTX 3080 is slightly faster than the RTX 4070.

But definitely not $130 ~ $230 more performance.

 

I would agree with you to get the RTX 4070 over the 3080.

Plus the RTX 4000-series has better support for DLSS, and as well as other features that are only supported by the 4000-series.

??? 3080 cost 729??? Excuse me? You could litterally go on Ebay right now for a 3080 that'll cost 400 dollars buy it now. A 3080 is cheaper then a 4070 and like you mentioned it's slightly faster. You guys might be talking about buying new parts but honestly theres nothing wrong with used parts. If you really want a new card, get from AMD, a 7800xt or maybe a 7700xt that'll perform better then the 4070 at a lower price.

[thrasher_565]

the 980ti's are worth moeny was well so you could sell em.

w3680 cpu would get you 12 cores 24 threads.

Edited October 13, 2023 by thrasher_565

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Apparently x58 starts bottlenecking anything over a 1080 though you should be fine if you crank the resolution and the settings

 

990x is pretty respectable but i reccomend overclocking it as much as possible, vcore/vtt can be pushed to 1.6v daily, 1.7v for the adventurous on vtt which i do hit and breach from time to time though if im not loosing too much ram speed by dropping vtt slightly (maybe 3500 ddr3 at 1.6v instead of 3600 ddr3 at 1.7v) then id lower my vtt. Vdimm can be pushed as high as the rams will go, cpu doesnt care what vdimm you run nor is thereany bullshit vtt vdimm 0.5v ∆ between eachother as ive also pushed vdimm all the way to 2.6v before with like 1.1v ∆ between vdimm and vtt while fucking around with ocing my crappy samsung 1gbit f die

 

Spoiler

Heres an example of a ram oc on an i7 930 with a giga x58a ud3r, 1:1 uncore : memclk which isnt possible with an asus board cause dumbasses had to cripple oc capabilities with a forced 2:1 (nehalem) or 1.5 : 1 (westmere) uncore : memclk. Runs at 2800 ddr3 stable but only 2 stick cause board has a shit 3rd channel, highest ive run on this particular board is 3100 ddr3 but hit imc limit cause the rams can clearly go quite abit further (around 3400 ish is probs what i can expect)

 

gulftown/westmere ws should do 3600+ but shitty asus board so expect around 2600-3200 depending on the cpus uncore capabilities (3900-4800 uncore), you can send pics of thaiphoon burner or if the rams happen to be bare pcbs send pics of the ics (black squares) and the label

 

 

As for oc settings

Bclk should be run at 220-230 depending on cpu bclk capabilities with qpi multi set to the lowest that isnt slowmode

 

Pcie freq at 120 to hit those bclk speeds

 

ddr3 2600-3200 ideal, dual/quad rank configs may struggle abit to hit higher speeds either due to uncore limit or boardlimit

 

Uncore at forced 1.5 : 1 ratio, if your rams cant hit those speeds and dnot max out uncore at 1.5 : 1 (most decent 2gbit and 4gbit can hit those speeds or atleast 2600) then run the uncore at the highest freq itll run at with vtt 1.5-1.6v, if you hit diminishing returns and raising vtt to 1.6v only nets you 100mhz over 1.5v then stick to 1.5v

 

Vcore at 1.4v llc off for a somewhat efficient oc but if you can run higher vcore with your cooler and you get get bit more freq then go ahead

 

Ioh at 1.3v

Cpu clock skew at 100

Ioh clock skew at normal

Differential amplitude at 1000mv

Everything else can be left at auto

 

Vdimm and ram timings theres not a one size fits all ram oc settings so specify rams and config, definitely want to run cas 11 at these speeds as tightening cas doesnt do shit for performance and only increases volt requirement

 

 

Whats your budget anyways? ~400$ gets you used 6800xt/6900xt or 3080, abit more can get you a 3080ti, youll be pretty heavily limited by the cpu but running some proper cpu speeds, ram speeds, and uncore speeds should alleviate it abit

[-rascal-]

16 hours ago, robotxbot said:

???

 

??? 3080 cost 729??? Excuse me? You could litterally go on Ebay right now for a 3080 that'll cost 400 dollars buy it now. A 3080 is cheaper then a 4070 and like you mentioned it's slightly faster. You guys might be talking about buying new parts but honestly theres nothing wrong with used parts. If you really want a new card, get from AMD, a 7800xt or maybe a 7700xt that'll perform better then the 4070 at a lower price.

 

Yeah the prices seem high, but then AGAIN, we cannot assume OP is in the U.S. using $USD currency.

A RTX 3080 goes for anywhere from $CAD 580+ if I check ebay.ca.

[j0hnsmith]

Wow didn't expect this much feedback from you guys. Appreciate the input. I'll try and answer each of your questions as best as I can:

 

@Zando_

When you said "If OP is sure they're just running out of GPU at this point, a 3080/4070 should be fine", I'm pretty sure that's the case. I recently played Forza Motorsport and I guess not achieving the average 60 fps kinda bugged me and is making me think of the GPU upgrade. My rig had no issues running FH5, because the recommended specs I knew I was able to handle. Even after toning down the settings in the game, it just seems to peak at 60 fps. This is what is making me lean towards a GPU update.

 

@Dukesilver27-

You do bring up an important point that does concern me. What I worry about the most is that the CPU bottleneck could be so bad that it could cause stuttering in future games. The only way to determine if it's gonna be a real issue is to try the upgrade and see if it's noticeable in gaming. If not, all good. But if it is, then I have no choice but to return it and consider building a new rig.

 

@robotxbot

Yeah I know I can get a preowned one on eBay which will be much cheaper. However, due to the boom in mining, I really just don't wanna take a chance on getting a card that has massive wear and tear on it. Sellers will have no problem lying to you saying it's usable just to get rid of it. I would just have more peace of mind if I get it new. Also, NVIDIA is just a personal preference of mine. I always had a bad taste in mouth when I went cheap and bought an ATI card on my very first computer many years ago. After many driver updates, it would never resolve the intermittent flickering issue I had. Obviously, I know times have changed and I'm sure AMD cards are nice and all. But I just personally prefer NVIDIA for gaming which I don't mind paying a premium for it. I have the same philosophy with CPU's. I have a strong preference for Intel in gaming.

 

@thrasher_565

Yeah that was the plan once I get my new card. From your comment though, it sounds like the 980 Ti's are still a hot commodity.

 

@Somerandomtechyboi

Wow that's some good info on OC'ing. To be perfectly honest, I'm trash when it comes to doing it myself. Just very tediious. I actually cheated and just Googled my CPU and overclocking. I came across a website and just copied their settings. And for the most part, it has worked well. I'm currently using a Corsair liquid cooler with a push pull configuration using Noctua fans. But I will keep it in mind to try and push it to its limit. I did come across another YT video that benchmarked the 990X in 2023. He noted after his testing there was a diminishing return once it gets clocked over 4.5 GHz. When I heard that and noticed mine was right at that threshold, I thought that my setup was good enough.

 

@-rascal-

I'm in the US.

 

Just to note. For now, I only plan to game on 1080p. Maybe if I can find a 1440p monitor on sale for the holidays, I may consider scooping one up.

[thrasher_565]

5 hours ago, j0hnsmith said:

Wow didn't expect this much feedback from you guys. Appreciate the input. I'll try and answer each of your questions as best as I can:

 

@Zando_

When you said "If OP is sure they're just running out of GPU at this point, a 3080/4070 should be fine", I'm pretty sure that's the case. I recently played Forza Motorsport and I guess not achieving the average 60 fps kinda bugged me and is making me think of the GPU upgrade. My rig had no issues running FH5, because the recommended specs I knew I was able to handle. Even after toning down the settings in the game, it just seems to peak at 60 fps. This is what is making me lean towards a GPU update.

 

@Dukesilver27-

You do bring up an important point that does concern me. What I worry about the most is that the CPU bottleneck could be so bad that it could cause stuttering in future games. The only way to determine if it's gonna be a real issue is to try the upgrade and see if it's noticeable in gaming. If not, all good. But if it is, then I have no choice but to return it and consider building a new rig.

 

@robotxbot

Yeah I know I can get a preowned one on eBay which will be much cheaper. However, due to the boom in mining, I really just don't wanna take a chance on getting a card that has massive wear and tear on it. Sellers will have no problem lying to you saying it's usable just to get rid of it. I would just have more peace of mind if I get it new. Also, NVIDIA is just a personal preference of mine. I always had a bad taste in mouth when I went cheap and bought an ATI card on my very first computer many years ago. After many driver updates, it would never resolve the intermittent flickering issue I had. Obviously, I know times have changed and I'm sure AMD cards are nice and all. But I just personally prefer NVIDIA for gaming which I don't mind paying a premium for it. I have the same philosophy with CPU's. I have a strong preference for Intel in gaming.

 

@thrasher_565

Yeah that was the plan once I get my new card. From your comment though, it sounds like the 980 Ti's are still a hot commodity.

 

@Somerandomtechyboi

Wow that's some good info on OC'ing. To be perfectly honest, I'm trash when it comes to doing it myself. Just very tediious. I actually cheated and just Googled my CPU and overclocking. I came across a website and just copied their settings. And for the most part, it has worked well. I'm currently using a Corsair liquid cooler with a push pull configuration using Noctua fans. But I will keep it in mind to try and push it to its limit. I did come across another YT video that benchmarked the 990X in 2023. He noted after his testing there was a diminishing return once it gets clocked over 4.5 GHz. When I heard that and noticed mine was right at that threshold, I thought that my setup was good enough.

 

@-rascal-

I'm in the US.

 

Just to note. For now, I only plan to game on 1080p. Maybe if I can find a 1440p monitor on sale for the holidays, I may consider scooping one up.

980tis are the best windows xp gpu with slight modded drivers. other then the titan x maxwell.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:24 AM, j0hnsmith said:

Wow that's some good info on OC'ing. To be perfectly honest, I'm trash when it comes to doing it myself. Just very tediious. I actually cheated and just Googled my CPU and overclocking. I came across a website and just copied their settings. And for the most part, it has worked well. I'm currently using a Corsair liquid cooler with a push pull configuration using Noctua fans. But I will keep it in mind to try and push it to its limit. I did come across another YT video that benchmarked the 990X in 2023. He noted after his testing there was a diminishing return once it gets clocked over 4.5 GHz. When I heard that and noticed mine was right at that threshold, I thought that my setup was good enough.

ill just tell you step by step for manual oc

 

Obv go into bios and the tweaker menu

 

Ai oc tuner = manual

Bclk = 220-224

Pcie = 120

Cpu ratio = 21 or 22 but set to 20 for overclocking bclk

Cpu diff amp = 1000mv

Cpu loadline calibration = disabled

Cpu clock skew = 100

Nb clock skew = normal

Ioh voltage = 1.3v

 

Ich voltage = 1.4v & ich pcie voltage 1.8v might help if you run into page file bsods or any other random bsods but leave auto if you dont see any benifit to preventing bsods

 

Vcore to 1.4v or however much your cooling can handle before hitting 95/100c prime95 smallest ffts

 

Vtt aka qpi core voltage to 1.6v, set 1.5v if this only gives you a tiny benifit like 100mhz uncore, run it as high as possible before it hits diminishing returns and prefferably <1.7v for daily, around 1.5-1.6v is what ive seen atleast on crappy x xeons but maybe gulftown will scale better with vtt. 1.5-1.7v should be range for uncore but youll need to do some testing for max uncore speed at 1.5 1.6 and 1.7v to draw a curve and see where diminishing returns hits hard, also cpu speed cant be slower than uncore otherwise itll start crashing

 

Uclk = cpu ratio or however much itll run at your selected voltage (1.5-1.7v), 20x/4000mhz is bare minimum but aim for = to cpu ratio or atleast 4200/4400 or 21x/22x ratio

 

 

Ram overclocking is not one size fits all so send some pics of your rams, if theyre bare pcbs send pics of the label and the black squares/ics, if not send a thaiphoon burner and cpuz memory tab screenshot. Also specify if they are mix match alongside capacity and configuration (ex 3x8, 6x4). With the given board and its forced uncore ratio crippling shenanigans 2600-3000 is about what you can expect depending on how high the uncore can go, 2600 is bare minimum and should be doable on all cpus since 3900 uncore is pretty slow. Vdimm/dram volt can be set as high as neccesary, 0v dram jumper should be set to enabled incase you need to run abit over 2v

 

Send some pics of your current bios settings alongside cpu volt and temps under full load (prime95 smallest ffts/cinebench) just to measure how good your cooling is alongside how good your cpu is clocks wise