Futureproof 4K gaming build tips/advice needed

[Generated-Nickname]

Hey, looking to build futureproof highend gaming pc. Would appreciate any tips regarding my current parts list, if you think I could go another way, or if you see the spending unnecessary, or if you think i should wait for next generation cpu/gpu. Anything that comes up to you really.

1. Let me tell you a bit about myself, so you can understand my way of thinking/preferences. Im over 30 have the budget and am looking to build a 4k gaming pc that i can easily use for the next lets say 7 years without necessary upgrades. Despite having the budget, I am in no need to throw money out of the window, so if you think its an overkill in any way please let me know. My main game ATM moment is Dota 2, which i realise is in no need for 4k gaming, but I love a story rich / racing game from time to time with great visual. Would love to be able to run next CDPR / Rockstar games on max in 4k. Regarding my part choices I only have 3 strong rules, no MSI parts, no water cooling, Noctua fans, also RGB is not desired. I dont have gpu/cpu preferences, although would love to keep the power consumption lower if i have the choice, while maintaining performance, even if its a bit pricier. I have built myself a good pc like 5 years ago, but im no pro, nor guru.

2. Current parts list: will note local prices, in case thats somehow useful to anyone

   1. Case: Fractal design North black/ TG (love the Terra case even more, yet I feel like the airflow/cpu cooling would be an issue) -141€

   2. MB: ASUS PRO WS W680-ACE (ACw680a) - 515 €

   3. Cpu: i9 13900K - 625 €

   4. Cooler: Noctua NH-U12A chromax. black 132 €

   5. GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4090 WINDFORCE V2 24 G (EGr4090w1v2) - 1810 €

   6. RAM: Corsair 64 GB KIT DDR5 6 600 MHz CL32 Vengeance Black - 261 €

   7. SSD: Seagate FireCuda 540 2 TB (pcie 5) - 322 €

   8. PSU: Be quiet! DARK POWER 13 1000W - 287 €

   9. Fans: 2x140 noctua fans 1x120 fan ( or 4x 140 and 1x120, not sure if top fan wall is needed)

   10. Monitor: 32" Samsung Odyssey G8 Neo miniLED, also have an older 1440p 144hz 27'' AOC screen to use as a dual. [(would there be any issues running separate monitors on different resolutions or refresh rates?) obviously game beeing played only on the samsung] - 1150 €

   11. Also, looking at the xl Secretlab table with dual monitor arm, in case thats important in any way.

3. Thanks! If you noticed some unnecessary pricey options, compatibility issues, or you think there is clearly better option please let me know! Im especially unsure about MB choice. For example, it shows pcie 5 port, but on the m2 slot only says pcie 4.

[Agall]

7 minutes ago, Generated-Nickname said:

Hey, looking to build futureproof highend gaming pc. Would appreciate any tips regarding my current parts list, if you think I could go another way, or if you see the spending unnecessary, or if you think i should wait for next generation cpu/gpu. Anything that comes up to you really.

1. Let me tell you a bit about myself, so you can understand my way of thinking/preferences. Im over 30 have the budget and am looking to build a 4k gaming pc that i can easily use for the next lets say 7 years without necessary upgrades. Despite having the budget, I am in no need to throw money out of the window, so if you think its an overkill in any way please let me know. My main game ATM moment is Dota 2, which i realise is in no need for 4k gaming, but I love a story rich / racing game from time to time with great visual. Would love to be able to run next CDPR / Rockstar games on max in 4k. Regarding my part choices I only have 3 strong rules, no MSI parts, no water cooling, Noctua fans, also RGB is not desired. I dont have gpu/cpu preferences, although would love to keep the power consumption lower if i have the choice, while maintaining performance, even if its a bit pricier. I have built myself a good pc like 5 years ago, but im no pro, nor guru.

2. Current parts list: will note local prices, in case thats somehow useful to anyone

   1. Case: Fractal design North black/ TG (love the Terra case even more, yet I feel like the airflow/cpu cooling would be an issue) -141€

   2. MB: ASUS PRO WS W680-ACE (ACw680a) - 515 €

   3. Cpu: i9 13900K - 625 €

   4. Cooler: Noctua NH-U12A chromax. black 132 €

   5. GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4090 WINDFORCE V2 24 G (EGr4090w1v2) - 1810 €

   6. RAM: Corsair 64 GB KIT DDR5 6 600 MHz CL32 Vengeance Black - 261 €

   7. SSD: Seagate FireCuda 540 2 TB (pcie 5) - 322 €

   8. PSU: Be quiet! DARK POWER 13 1000W - 287 €

   9. Fans: 2x140 noctua fans 1x120 fan ( or 4x 140 and 1x120, not sure if top fan wall is needed)

   10. Monitor: 32" Samsung Odyssey G8 Neo miniLED, also have an older 1440p 144hz 27'' AOC screen to use as a dual. [(would there be any issues running separate monitors on different resolutions or refresh rates?) obviously game beeing played only on the samsung] - 1150 €

   11. Also, looking at the xl Secretlab table with dual monitor arm, in case thats important in any way.

3. Thanks! If you noticed some unnecessary pricey options, compatibility issues, or you think there is clearly better option please let me know! Im especially unsure about MB choice. For example, it shows pcie 5 port, but on the m2 slot only says pcie 4.

I'd save some money on PCIe 5.0 M.2 drives and get a PCIe 4.0 one. 5.0 is beyond necessary at the moment and there's no real value proposition for it.

 

Given the hardware in a Fractal Design North, I'd recommend the mesh side panel version, simply for better airflow. You can run the FD North with 4x140mm case fans, but its far better with the mesh side panel comparably.

 

You're practically describing a 13900k version of my system btw, monitor and all. I'd recommend a bigger air cooler than the NH-U12A, like the NH-D15. The fan configuration in this is specifically to leverage the mesh side panel, so I'd otherwise mount the CPU fans in the 'normal' configuration if you do end up with the TG version of the case.

 

[Generated-Nickname]

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'd save some money on PCIe 5.0 M.2 drives and get a PCIe 4.0 one. 5.0 is beyond necessary at the moment and there's no real value proposition for it.

 

Given the hardware in a Fractal Design North, I'd recommend the mesh side panel version, simply for better airflow. You can run the FD North with 4x140mm case fans, but its far better with the mesh side panel comparably.

 

You're practically describing a 13900k version of my system btw, monitor and all. I'd recommend a bigger air cooler than the NH-U12A, like the NH-D15. The fan configuration in this is specifically to leverage the mesh side panel, so I'd otherwise mount the CPU fans in the 'normal' configuration if you do end up with the TG version of the case.

 

Cheers!

 

was wondering about the pcie 4/5 ssd and from what i gathered id didnt seem like it was reducing load times drastically, but I was wondering if its just not one of those things that developers have to accustom to, to work properly, and might prove handy in the long run. Also thanks for the comments regarding tg/mesh. Still not sure which one to go for. while one seems more practical, the other one just looks a bit nicer imo. Did you have any issues fitting the NH-D15? seem to be quite tight fit with the gpu. Regarding fans, I always believed that the top panel is in most cases just in case you want a radiator for liquid cooling and it wouldnt fit anywhere else. On the other hand, with D15, perhaps you really dont need another fan right behind it. In general, are you satisfied with the Case?

[NeverNotExhausted]

"Futureproofing" is kind of a myth. Just buy the best parts you can afford and then hope that the software you run doesn't outpace it any time soon

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, Generated-Nickname said:

Cheers!

 

was wondering about the pcie 4/5 ssd and from what i gathered id didnt seem like it was reducing load times drastically, but I was wondering if its just not one of those things that developers have to accustom to, to work properly, and might prove handy in the long run. Also thanks for the comments regarding tg/mesh. Still not sure which one to go for. while one seems more practical, the other one just looks a bit nicer imo. Did you have any issues fitting the NH-D15? seem to be quite tight fit with the gpu. Regarding fans, I always believed that the top panel is in most cases just in case you want a radiator for liquid cooling and it wouldnt fit anywhere else. On the other hand, with D15, perhaps you really dont need another fan right behind it. In general, are you satisfied with the Case?

I like it tight, I only recently moved to regular ATX after ~8 years of doing mini ITX SFX builds primarily. 

 

That system draws over 700W under load, part of that being the overclock I run that'll draw +100W from the 4090. I'd expect this system to do the same with a 13900k with the RTX 4090 stock, so maybe >750W if you're running an overclock like me.

 

DirectStorage API would be the only reason to potentially buy a PCIe 5.0 drive, but you can find testing that show an insignificant reduction in load times from 4.0 to 5.0 with the PCIe 5.0 drives available on the market. The gap between 4.0 and 5.0 is there, but 4.0 M.2 SSDs are quite far in their maturity, something that PCIe 5.0 drives don't share. Its likely to be worth it in another year when there's more on the market, simply because their performance will move to maximize the extra bandwidth, which they're not really doing right now. Relative to cost and benefit, they're just not worth it right now in my opinion.

 

NH-D15 fits perfectly fine in the case. Any properly sized air cooler for a 7950x3D or 13900k will look crowded, but yes, some people get claustrophobic looking at that setup  

 

FD North is an amazing case. The only flaws I see with it is the lack of a dedicated cable management hole in the top right of the motherboard, and the fact that the top panel doesn't truly 'lock' (it has plastic clips that give it retention, but not very much). The lack of hole is easy to work around and if its really a concern, you can drill+tap a hole for a thumb screw in the rear to better retain the top panel. I personally bought it for the mesh version, since its the only ATX case on the market with that sort of airflow.

 

I personally love the sleeper aesthetic the FD North mesh provides. Normal people wouldn't think its the most powerful gaming PC you can buy/build, especially with no RGB enabled at all and a mesh side panel. The mesh side panel REALLY helps with GPU and CPU thermals, since you can feel the CPU intaking (in that configuration) and the GPU intake+exhausting from the mesh panel. This rig has also existed in a Corsair 4000D, being a TG case with the exact same dimensions, and it worked, but I'd take the mesh panel any day. This system under full load is neigh silent which is impressive for its +700W draw.

[Agall]

8 minutes ago, NeverNotExhausted said:

"Futureproofing" is kind of a myth. Just buy the best parts you can afford and then hope that the software you run doesn't outpace it any time soon

You're right, but OP's request is quite simple and involves what you're describing. In this context, the request including things like enough VRAM, multithreading while having the best single threaded performance, etc. 13900k vs 7800x3D/7950x3D is another discussion. The way I look at it, any CPU with sufficient multithreading and top tier single threaded is all that's necessary, then fitting the best card into the budget.

 

Intel Single threaded performance deltas (using cinebench R23 single thread scores and using the best processor tier)
4th-10th, ~22% increase
10th-11th, ~22% increase
11th-12th, ~19% increase
12th-13th, ~12% increase

Notice how the first metric stretches across 6 generations, this is because the increase in performance between them was mediocre, demonstrated by the next 3. I doubt this'll keep going in this direction, but AMD sure did start to push Intel to start releasing better products with Ryzen 3000.
 

[Generated-Nickname]

16 minutes ago, Agall said:

I like it tight, I only recently moved to regular ATX after ~8 years of doing mini ITX SFX builds primarily. 

 

That system draws over 700W under load, part of that being the overclock I run that'll draw +100W from the 4090. I'd expect this system to do the same with a 13900k with the RTX 4090 stock, so maybe >750W if you're running an overclock like me.

 

DirectStorage API would be the only reason to potentially buy a PCIe 5.0 drive, but you can find testing that show an insignificant reduction in load times from 4.0 to 5.0 with the PCIe 5.0 drives available on the market. The gap between 4.0 and 5.0 is there, but 4.0 M.2 SSDs are quite far in their maturity, something that PCIe 5.0 drives don't share. Its likely to be worth it in another year when there's more on the market, simply because their performance will move to maximize the extra bandwidth, which they're not really doing right now. Relative to cost and benefit, they're just not worth it right now in my opinion.

 

NH-D15 fits perfectly fine in the case. Any properly sized air cooler for a 7950x3D or 13900k will look crowded, but yes, some people get claustrophobic looking at that setup  

 

FD North is an amazing case. The only flaws I see with it is the lack of a dedicated cable management hole in the top right of the motherboard, and the fact that the top panel doesn't truly 'lock' (it has plastic clips that give it retention, but not very much). The lack of hole is easy to work around and if its really a concern, you can drill+tap a hole for a thumb screw in the rear to better retain the top panel. I personally bought it for the mesh version, since its the only ATX case on the market with that sort of airflow.

 

I personally love the sleeper aesthetic the FD North mesh provides. Normal people wouldn't think its the most powerful gaming PC you can buy/build, especially with no RGB enabled at all and a mesh side panel. The mesh side panel REALLY helps with GPU and CPU thermals, since you can feel the CPU intaking (in that configuration) and the GPU intake+exhausting from the mesh panel. This rig has also existed in a Corsair 4000D, being a TG case with the exact same dimensions, and it worked, but I'd take the mesh panel any day. This system under full load is neigh silent which is impressive for its +700W draw.

Thanks! See where you coming from - Im currently in corsair air 240  as stated in original post, if there was a way to fit all my priorities with sufficient temp control into Terra, I would. Agreed on the sleeper as well, the secretlab table also has a pc mount next to one of its legs, so I dont get to look inside too much anyways. Is there a significant drawback on having 1000W psu instead of 850? Doesnt it draw only as much as it need anyways? Price difference does not seem to be too radical. Also, just wondering about your fan placement on the D15, is there a reason you prefer to have the second fan at the end and not in the middle?

 

Also one more general question - It came to me while reading your response to pcie 5.0 vs 4.0. I know that everything is improving constantly, yet i feel like it works in generations a bit. If im not in rush, you think its worth to wait until something specific comes up? if its SSD's or new generation of gpu/cpu/ram. I do realise that its very subjective question, but lets say, that I am willing to wait for up to 1 year, is it worth it? 

 

[brob]

1 hour ago, Generated-Nickname said:

looking to build a 4k gaming pc that i can easily use for the next lets say 7 years without necessary upgrades.

 

Seven years ago Intel desktop CPU had 4 cores with max turbo around 4.2GHz and Ryzen had just been announced. Compare that to today's 24 core max turbo 5.8GHz, etc. GPU performance delta is even wider.

 

There is little reason to expect that the pace of performance improvement will slow. And I doubt current game releases would play well on 7 year old hardware.

 

I believe "future proofing" is a pipe dream.

 

The outline build seems fine. 

 

The NH-D15 fits the case and offers better cooling.

 

There is a note in https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/ for the Dark Power 13 regarding lack of OCP on individual rails. If you wanted a multi-rail PSU, it may not be a good choice.

 

 

[Agall]

4 minutes ago, Generated-Nickname said:

Thanks! See where you coming from - Im currently in corsair air 240  as stated in original post, if there was a way to fit all my priorities with sufficient temp control into Terra, I would. Agreed on the sleeper as well, the secretlab table also has a pc mount next to one of its legs, so I dont get to look inside too much anyways. Is there a significant drawback on having 1000W psu instead of 850? Doesnt it draw only as much as it need anyways? Price difference does not seem to be too radical. Also, just wondering about your fan placement on the D15, is there a reason you prefer to have the second fan at the end and not in the middle?

 

Also one more general question - It came to me while reading your response to pcie 5.0 vs 4.0. I know that everything is improving constantly, yet i feel like it works in generations a bit. If im not in rush, you think its worth to wait until something specific comes up? if its SSD's or new generation of gpu/cpu/ram. I do realise that its very subjective question, but lets say, that I am willing to wait for up to 1 year, is it worth it? 

 

Having the middle open in combination with a mesh side panel does allow for some independent airflow to the second tower, otherwise the second tower is always taking hot air as intake from the first tower. I can feel intake from the side panel in this configuration and theoretically, the top fans can actually assist in such by exhausting some of the first tower's exhaust and creating negative pressure between them to allow for intake from the side panel.

 

I'd opt for at least 1000W with your rig. The RTX 4090 can be ran at stock on an 850W, but the 13900k can be a hungry hungry hippo, so I'd opt for at least 1000W. I went with the 1200W Seasonic Vertex personally since I got this PSU before upgrading from my 5800x3D, where I was considering a 13900k. 1200W for an overclocked RTX 4090 is the safe spot in my opinion.

 

ASUS Power Supply Units | Republic of Gamers | ASUS United States

 

This is a great tool I've found to give solid recommendations on power supplies. Ideally you're operating within the 50-65% load of the PSU's maximum capacity since that's generally the peak efficiency with sufficient transient load spiking headroom.

[Agall]

13 minutes ago, brob said:

 

Seven years ago Intel desktop CPU had 4 cores with max turbo around 4.2GHz and Ryzen had just been announced. Compare that to today's 24 core max turbo 5.8GHz, etc. GPU performance delta is even wider.

 

There is little reason to expect that the pace of performance improvement will slow. And I doubt current game releases would play well on 7 year old hardware.

 

I believe "future proofing" is a pipe dream.

 

The outline build seems fine. 

 

The NH-D15 fits the case and offers better cooling.

 

There is a note in https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/ for the Dark Power 13 regarding lack of OCP on individual rails. If you wanted a multi-rail PSU, it may not be a good choice.

 

 

Its more complicated than that, "future proofing" is a pipe dream, but operating within realistic interpretations of the concept isn't unreasonable.

 

Even in 2023, I can run a 4790k with an RTX 4090 and get decent performance (I've tested that myself), even in an MMO/multiplayer game. Is it holding back the RTX 4090 enough to justify buying a 7900 XTX instead and putting the $600 or so towards a new CPU? Definitely yes. However I even saw a scenario where I wasn't CPU limited between a 4790k and 7950x3D in Warframe...

 

 

Is calling an RTX 4090 and 13900k system "future proof" in 2023 unreasonable? I'd say no. The probability of Intel and AMD keeping up with their recent single threaded performance curve is low, but I can see both continuing to increase the L2+L3 cache to the point where 3D v-cache looks small. Games that run into single threaded limitations seem to really like that extra L3 cache to operate with, something I test between CCDs on my 7950x3D with simulated 7700x and 7800x3D with changing the core configuration in the UEFI.

 

 

Thread where I document my testing between a 4790k and 7950x3D in Warframe, using various environments with different potential limitations, mostly being CPU, GPU, or engine limited. I'm assuming the engine is limited to 1200 fps, but I won't know till next CPU generation

 

[Generated-Nickname]

33 minutes ago, brob said:

 

Seven years ago Intel desktop CPU had 4 cores with max turbo around 4.2GHz and Ryzen had just been announced. Compare that to today's 24 core max turbo 5.8GHz, etc. GPU performance delta is even wider.

 

There is little reason to expect that the pace of performance improvement will slow. And I doubt current game releases would play well on 7 year old hardware.

 

I believe "future proofing" is a pipe dream.

 

The outline build seems fine. 

 

The NH-D15 fits the case and offers better cooling.

 

There is a note in https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/ for the Dark Power 13 regarding lack of OCP on individual rails. If you wanted a multi-rail PSU, it may not be a good choice.

 

 

Cheers for the answer, obviously i dont expect to run full details for whole duration, yet 1070 is 7 years old now, and i can still play anything on reasonable settings. To me (perhaps wrongly) it seems like you can delay next investment by buying premium atm. But i can see that there are probably diminishing returns.

 

Regarding PSU, I think that is above my knowledge level - would care to educate me in 2 sentences?  Thanks!

[Generated-Nickname]

32 minutes ago, Agall said:

Having the middle open in combination with a mesh side panel does allow for some independent airflow to the second tower, otherwise the second tower is always taking hot air as intake from the first tower. I can feel intake from the side panel in this configuration and theoretically, the top fans can actually assist in such by exhausting some of the first tower's exhaust and creating negative pressure between them to allow for intake from the side panel.

 

I'd opt for at least 1000W with your rig. The RTX 4090 can be ran at stock on an 850W, but the 13900k can be a hungry hungry hippo, so I'd opt for at least 1000W. I went with the 1200W Seasonic Vertex personally since I got this PSU before upgrading from my 5800x3D, where I was considering a 13900k. 1200W for an overclocked RTX 4090 is the safe spot in my opinion.

 

ASUS Power Supply Units | Republic of Gamers | ASUS United States

 

This is a great tool I've found to give solid recommendations on power supplies. Ideally you're operating within the 50-65% load of the PSU's maximum capacity since that's generally the peak efficiency with sufficient transient load spiking headroom.

Gotcha, thanks for explaining. Hopeefully I can keep it in stock clocks for some time at least. And thanks for the tool link will check it out!

[brob]

12 minutes ago, Generated-Nickname said:

Cheers for the answer, obviously i dont expect to run full details for whole duration, yet 1070 is 7 years old now, and i can still play anything on reasonable settings. To me (perhaps wrongly) it seems like you can delay next investment by buying premium atm. But i can see that there are probably diminishing returns.

 

Regarding PSU, I think that is above my knowledge level - would care to educate me in 2 sentences?  Thanks!

 

I agree that buying quality high performance components increases the useful life of a system.

 

I only pointed out the PSU note in case you wanted a multi-rail PSU and were unaware of the Dark Power 13 OCP issue. (There are some that very much prefer them, (not me).) As far as I'm concerned, it's not an issue worth worrying about. Multi-rail PSU are a dying breed.