Soundbar vs ?

[colblitz]

I recently bought an LG G3 77" and I'm starting to figure out my audio setup, but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed so would appreciate some advice. My budget is maybe 1k-1.5k, and my main uses will mostly be movies and some background music. The space is sort of large - diagram attached of the space, and also the ceiling is open to the second floor so it's like 20' up.

I'm trying to figure out what my options should be. I'm not looking to do a super advanced home theater setup and I'm definitely not an audiophile, but want some good solid quality. I was initially looking at soundbars and I saw the Sonos Arc and the Samsung lineup (Q800C, Q900C, Q990C) recommended in a few places. Then I started looking at speaker setups - maybe this is just from ignorance but it feels like soundbars wouldn't be as good at "filling" the space? - and kind of got lost.

Would I need to get an amp for the speakers? Do I need an AVR (should I get an AVR even if I get a soundbar)? Are there any AVRs that would fit inside my media console? I see Denon and Yamaha but it looks like they're mostly 17-18" x 13" and I would need something more like 15" x 13" if I didn't want to put them on top of the console. I'd prefer not to have to run cables anywhere, so I guess I'm limiting myself to a 3.1 setup - would that still be worth it? Also for the actual speakers themselves, are there any brands that are generally recommended or that I should avoid?

Thanks!

[emosun]

8 minutes ago, colblitz said:

I'm not looking to do a super advanced home theater setup and I'm definitely not an audiophile

then i'd just get a basic soundbar then. most should work fine if you have just a normal living room and are just watching tv or movies.

 

10 minutes ago, colblitz said:

My budget is maybe 1k-1.5k

also dont be spending 1500 on speakers if youre definitely not an audiophile theres no need to spend that much

[fun_two]

I have a 5.1 vizio surround speaker system, which works in the layout you have. 

Vizio is eARC to the sound bar and wireless to the am and two satellite speakers.

[saintlouisbagels]

28 minutes ago, emosun said:

also dont be spending 1500 on speakers if youre definitely not an audiophile theres no need to spend that much

Very strong disagree. You don't need to be an audiophile to hear the massive improvement from good/great bookshelf speakers.

 

39 minutes ago, colblitz said:

My budget is maybe 1k-1.5k,

$1000 is more than a enough for a booming stereo setup.

Do you have an actual picture of what the TV wall looks like - is there console space for a home theater receiver, and enough space on the sides for bookshelf speakers and speaker stands?

 

I actually gave the same exact advice in a thread the other day, and it's the same advice I give to my friends. About 3 of my friends have the same setup now.

On accessories4less, you can look up bookshelf speakers. I recommend the KEF Q350. At this moment, you can get a recertified pair for $450-$500

These are "passive" speakers, so they need power from either speaker amplifiers or a home theater receiver.

Depending on your needs, you could be happy with a super compact setup like the Loxjie A30 for $170 on Amazon, or you can find any budget receiver like the Denon S660H on accessories4less for $300.

Then it's a matter of finding speaker stands which you can find a bunch of Amazon. I personally have a pricey $250 one filled with aquarium rocks, but that's a discussion for another day.

 

edit:

You will have more than enough remaining money for an awesome subwoofer. You cannot really go wrong here once you're in like the $400+ range. SVS, Klipsch, REL, etc.

 

edit2:

I do not care about surround (5.1, 7.1, atmos, etc.) in any way. I have a 2.1 setup in a basic-ass living room that costs half as much as my friend's 9.2 setup in his dedicated home theater room, and I would choose mine any day of the week.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by saintlouisbagels

[emosun]

8 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Very strong disagree. You don't need to be an audiophile to hear the massive improvement from good/great bookshelf speakers.

yeah you do

you think non audiophiles know the difference between sound that is good and sound that is loud?
Normal people think loud = good. That's it , that's as far as their thought process goes.

Telling someone who knows nothing about speakers to blow 1500$ is just .... i typed a long rant and got it out of my system but lets just say it's not amazing advice.

[saintlouisbagels]

8 minutes ago, emosun said:

yeah you do

you think non audiophiles know the difference between sound that is good and sound that is loud?
Normal people think loud = good. That's it , that's as far as their thought process goes.

Telling someone who knows nothing about speakers to blow 1500$ is just .... i typed a long rant and got it out of my system but lets just say it's not amazing advice.

I think you're passionately ranting at "audiophiles" who think $2000 receivers sound better than a $200 receiver, or $100 RCA cables sound better than $4 Amazon basics one. And I totally agree with that.

 

But if we're talking in the territory of $100 soundbars vs $500 bookshelf speakers... you either need to get your hearing checked because I am concerned for you, or you are seriously trolling. If we were talking about $500 speakers vs a pair of $1200 speakers? Yeah, there's very little difference and I would recommend NO ONE to do that.

[emosun]

25 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

I recommend the KEF Q350. At this moment, you can get a recertified pair for $450-$500

26 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

like the Loxjie A30 for $170 on Amazon, or you can find any budget receiver like the Denon S660H on accessories4less for $300

26 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

You will have more than enough remaining money for an awesome subwoofer. You cannot really go wrong here once you're in like the $400+ range. SVS, Klipsch, REL, etc.

 

3 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

$500 speakers vs $1200 speakers? Yeah, there's very little difference and I would recommend NO ONE to do that.

well you just recommended 1200$ of stuff so looks like you would

[saintlouisbagels]

23 minutes ago, emosun said:

well you just recommended 1200$ of stuff so looks like you would

I mean if you're going to intentionally misunderstand "$1200 of stuff" as equivalent to my $1200 speaker example... idk.. sure you win? You put me in my place.

 

The speakers themselves are $500. And they would still be $500 if we're talking about a dude who has a existing set of speaker amplifiers/home theater receiver, but that is not the case here.

 

edit:

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

Would I need to get an amp for the speakers? Do I need an AVR (should I get an AVR even if I get a soundbar)? Are there any AVRs that would fit inside my media console? I see Denon and Yamaha but it looks like they're mostly 17-18" x 13" and I would need something more like 15" x 13" if I didn't want to put them on top of the console.

I was so excited to give you a recommendation that I didn't even notice this part of your post.

You only need an AVR if you're buying passive speakers, like my other post recommended. Passive speakers have no electronics in them for power or inputs/outputs. An AVR provides all of that. Integrated amplifiers also do the same.

Hm, yeah, maybe the Loxjie A30 is perfect for you if there's no media console space for any receivers.

 

You could also make life easy and get a nice pair of powered speakers from Kanto or AudioEngine. Powered means these have power supplies built in, along with a bunch of inputs/outputs. No HDMI though.

 

Or I can shut the heck up and you can buy any soundbar set that looks nice to you.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by saintlouisbagels

[cmndr]

So doing some very quick research, it looks like the LG G3 does audio out via TOSLINK and HDMI, though not over analog. (For some people I just say get a pair of JBL 305P MKII and be done - this would end up janky due to lack of an onboard DAC on the TV)

 

My general recommendation would be going for a relatively basic 5 channel AVR (potentially used - I got a Denon x3200W for $200), to get 4 not bad bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. 

here's a sample budget:

$150-200 used AVR (try to get the measurement microphone with this)
Kef Q150/Emotiva B1+/JBL 530/Polk ES15 bookshelf speakers $200-250 on sale
Used SVS/Rel/Hsu/Outlaw subwoofer - $350ish
Cheap bookshelf side speakers - $100-150ish (can be used, "not bad" is the name of the game)
2 pairs of speaker stands - $100ish
Misc wires/cables - $40ish

 

This roughly hits your budget. Side speakers can be added in later. 
Some people will say that you absolutely need a center. This is kind of a mixed thing. Center speakers "center" the sound in the middle/under your TV. Not having a center just redirects the sound to the L+R speakers. If you have really weird seating angles a center helps. If no one cares and you sit in the center sweet spot... it doesn't really matter. In practice people on home theater forums, when asked, say that their guests don't care about being in the sweet spot. Your side couch is probably fine without a center channel unless you're having people sit there ALL the time. 

If you REALLY don't want to run wires, some newer AVRs will allow you at add height/top channels for SOME of the surround effect. 
Also there are some nice tricks like running wires under a carpet. Relatively thin wires are also often easier to work with and they're probably fine for secondary speakers on short (under 50') runs. 
 

[colblitz]

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions!

23 hours ago, emosun said:

also dont be spending 1500 on speakers if youre definitely not an audiophile theres no need to spend that much

Yeah, if it was solely sound quality it'd be a waste - but there are probably other factors like build quality, modularity/upgradability, aesthetics, UI, brand loyalty, etc. that could be worth spending more on. Is there actually a difference for those between $500 and $1200 speakers? No idea, that's why I'm asking lol

 

22 hours ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Or I can shut the heck up and you can buy any soundbar set that looks nice to you.

I like seeing all the options, and especially having the explanations of what's needed or not, so the excitement is appreciated

 

18 hours ago, cmndr said:

Some people will say that you absolutely need a center. This is kind of a mixed thing. Center speakers "center" the sound in the middle/under your TV. Not having a center just redirects the sound to the L+R speakers. If you have really weird seating angles a center helps. If no one cares and you sit in the center sweet spot... it doesn't really matter. In practice people on home theater forums, when asked, say that their guests don't care about being in the sweet spot. Your side couch is probably fine without a center channel unless you're having people sit there ALL the time. 

I think I saw somewhere that having a center channel helps with movie dialogue, but is that just marketing talk, or actually just the same issue as ^ (dialogue being split to L+R makes it harder to hear)?

 

[saintlouisbagels]

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

Is there actually a difference for those between $500 and $1200 speakers? No idea, that's why I'm asking lol

I've owned the KEF Q100 and KEF Q350 and I'd put them in the ~$500 tier.
I've owned the KEF R300 and I current own the KEF R100 and they're in ~$1200-$1500 range.

There is a difference - the clarity (female vocals and piano) and the bass are both improved by a noticeable amount. My friends who all own the ~$500 setup agree with me that the R-series sounds better. And to me, that difference is worth the nearly 3x price increase.

For the normal person? I would not recommend it at all haha.

 

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

I like seeing all the options, and especially having the explanations of what's needed or not, so the excitement is appreciated

Once you have a AVR or an integrated amplifier, there's a whole world of passive speakers.

(Definitely do a quick Amazon check of the Loxjie A30!! It's a beautiful little device. I wish it existed back in my college days.)

The initial cost of passive speaker equipment is high, but the upgrades don't hurt the wallet too much.

You don't even need to follow our advice for going for the KEF speakers. The ELAC Debut (if you can find it for $200) is a phenomenal deal.

 

If you're just jumping from powered speaker to powered speaker, you're wasting money having to pay for all of those integrated electronics every time.

 

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

I think I saw somewhere that having a center channel helps with movie dialogue, but is that just marketing talk, or actually just the same issue as ^ (dialogue being split to L+R makes it harder to hear)?

As someone who has a very hard time understanding people IRL (subtle accents) and a lot of music (indie, noise rock)..

I have no zero issues with understanding movie dialogue in my 2.1 setup. I like to think the center channel being split into L+R isn't a problem if the L+R are great quality. Kind of like how normal (great) headphones are superior to the gimmicky bullcrap of 7.1 virtual headphones. Obviously don't cherry pick impossible examples like Nolan's Interstellar and TENET. Not even Dolby Cinema and IMAX can make those audible.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by saintlouisbagels

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

I think I saw somewhere that having a center channel helps with movie dialogue, but is that just marketing talk, or actually just the same issue as ^ (dialogue being split to L+R makes it harder to hear)?

Having a good center CAN help with dialog. You can even explicitly slightly increase the loudness on the center as well. 
Good Center > No Center > Bad center

most center channel speakers are "bad" though. 

The "ideal" center channel speaker is basically the same speaker as your L+R speakers behind an acoustically transparent screen. 

Back in the 1990s when 5 channel sound first came out, there were a lot of VERY mediocre "Home Theater in a Box" set ups and in a good chunk of them the center channel speaker was just BAD. It was common advice to suggest that a random person going to Best Buy or Circuit City go for the set up with the best center possible. 


Since 1990, TVs went from like 30 inches to 50-100 inches and now the center channel is forced to sit WAY lower. If seating flexibility isn't a huge concern (remember, most guests are fine and don't care), if you have two GOOD L+R speakers with decent imaging the "phantom center" will work pretty well. I actually had a friend prefer using my Polk R200 speakers ONLY and disabling (my admittedly mismatched) Emotiva C1+ speaker (which is an OK but not exceptional center channel). 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, colblitz said:

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions!

Yeah, if it was solely sound quality it'd be a waste - but there are probably other factors like build quality, modularity/upgradability, aesthetics, UI, brand loyalty, etc. that could be worth spending more on. Is there actually a difference for those between $500 and $1200 speakers? No idea, that's why I'm asking lol

It might be "worth it" if you're an obsessive enthusiast. I think that for more normal people you get diminishing returns after around $200-300 or so. A pair of wall-mounted Polk ES15s (cost of stand = 1 screw) check a lot of boxes when they're on sale for $200ish. 

After a certain point you end up with a situation where the $$$ spent on better speakers would probably be better spent on better room treatments, since sound reflections off the floor, walls and ceiling are the biggest sound of sound quality loss moreso than not having a slightly better tweeter.