Tablets as industrial touch screens?

Sheebz · July 5, 2023

Random question,

buddy of mine has a wheel polishing machine with 6 touch screens to control each bin. 5 of them stopped working, so I went to take a look at them. Pulled all 5 screens apart and the daughter boards coming off the main board of each has multiple capacitors blown up on them. A couple of them aren’t too bad, but 3 of them have damage to the actual pcb of the daughter board.

each screen is $3000 to replace. He’s finding out if it’s possible to just order replacement daughter boards, but asked me to look into the potential of removing those screens all together and replacing them with tablets or something as a cheaper alternative.

looks like each unit is running some form of windows.

My question now is, would it be possible to clone the information off the screens and flash it onto tablets? If so, can anyone please link some information on doing so?

each screen has an sd card in them. I’m assuming it’s just firmware and not the OS or anything, but I could be wrong. I need to check on that.

TetraSky · July 5, 2023

Unfortunately for your friend, these are not merely screens.

They are a PLC and HMI all in one.

You don't just "copy" the info and hope that it works on a tablet.

It's the "brain" that makes the whole machine work the way it does.

The code for it is programmed with whichever software Lenze uses. It could be programmed in Ladder, in SFC (grafcet), or in whatever other programming language. Which cannot be read by Windows unless you have the software needed for it... And cannot be run by windows unless you have the hardware for it. In this case, the PLC, the HMI, the IO bus, and everything else connected to it. A tablet also wouldn't have any way to interface with the Inputs/Outputs of the machine, which the PLC does.

Unless your friend feels like redoing the entire programming for whatever machine this is interfacing with, and replacing a good chunk of the other stuff he already has, he ain't replacing it with something else other than an identical Lenze p300 controller (or some other compatible controller).

Even less so a simple windows computer. It doesn't work that way. He NEEDS a PLC at the very least to connect with all the stuff he already has.

Now if this screen really was just a HMI, there would be a possibility to replace it with a PC/Tablet. Because then it could simply use profinet/ethernet (or rs232), to connect remotely to the PLC and interface with it in a supervision screen to create a pseudo "hmi". Except it's not. It would cost a lot more to retrofit this into a different ecosystem.

If they are blowing up one after another, it means the whole thing wasn't wired properly. Because this ain't normal. Chances are, he could contact the manufacturer for information on this and possibly warranty as well. Industrial stuff is typically well warrantied and/or has places where you can get them repaired. Maybe contact whoever sold him that machine in the first place.

Fancy words list

PLC = Programmable Logic Controller. It's basically the "brain". It controls everything the machine does and what makes it "smart" in some way. Turning on/off a motor to make something turn is the simplest of dumbest circuit possible, no need for a PLC. But controlling the speed of the motor, that takes a bit more brain power and a drive and what not. Even more so if he wants to control it through a HMI.

HMI = Human Machine Interface. Literally what it says. It's your gateway to interfacing with the machine it's connected to. What you see displayed on the screen, was programmed to show that way. From the icons, the drawings, the text, the animation to whatever else you see on the screen (other than bare windows interface), was custom programmed for this machine.

tkitch · July 6, 2023

^ This.

The main issue: These industrial solutions are proprietary AF and are a bitch and a half to replace normally.

They charge an arm and a leg because you're locked in and can't do shit about it.

Sheebz · July 6, 2023

@TetraSky, @tkitch

Thank you both for the input. I kind of figured as much, but with all the DIY stuff out there now, I just wanted to cover my bases and check before saying its not doable.

I'm 95% sure the main boards and the screens are fine. Couldn't find any damage to the main boards and couldn't find any issues with a multimeter. It's just the daughter boards on them that fried. I did tell him to try for a warranty claim, but the machines are turning 8 years old, so he doesn't think they will still be covered. @TetraSky, you made a very good point in this comment

Quote

If they are blowing up one after another, it means the whole thing wasn't wired properly. Because this ain't normal.

I told him to use this for a leg to stand on if he has to fight for a warranty claim.

When I figured out the problem was the daughter boards, I told him to at least reach out to them about selling him replacement daughter boards instead of the entire unit. A couple hundred bucks a board vs. $3000 for an entire unit , times 5 of them (potentially 6, if the final board decides to blow) is a much easier hit to take.

I have passed along the information you guys have given me. Hopefully they will cover under warranty, or at least sell him individual daughter boards.

Thanks again!!