Speaker ohms

[Kamranbites]

I have 2 pair of speakers aiwa and Kenwood. Both pairs have same ohms which is 6 but there is a slight difference in wattage aiwa is 40 and Kenwood is 43. I have a amplifier 100w per channel 2.0 4-8 ohms.so anyone can suggest me how to connect 4 speakers to my amplifier. What i am aware of is 2 methods series and parral but I am ohms doesn't meet my amplifier rating.

[BobVonBob]

Just use one pair of speakers? Hook up both one at a time and listen to them, use the ones you like better.

 

If you absolutely must use both I suggest putting them in parallel. If you do that the load on the amp will be 3 ohms, which is out of spec, but if you keep the volume relatively low it should handle it fine. Listen for any distortion or signs that the amp is struggling and back off the volume if you hear it.

[HAL90000]

Ya this is a terrible idea don't do this. Get a 5.1 amp and a center speaker, or don't do it. Speaker wattage ratings on passive speakers are largely nonsense you can't connect "two pairs of 50W speakers to a 100W amp" that's just nonsense.

[Kamranbites]

13 hours ago, BobVonBob said:

Just use one pair of speakers? Hook up both one at a time and listen to them, use the ones you like better.

 

If you absolutely must use both I suggest putting them in parallel. If you do that the load on the amp will be 3 ohms, which is out of spec, but if you keep the volume relatively low it should handle it fine. Listen for any distortion or signs that the amp is struggling and back off the volume if you hear it.

I tired connecting in parallel there is no sound distortion on Full volume too and sound is much better then connection a single pair. But how should combine them like aiwa and Kenwood or aiwa aiwa ?

[Kamranbites]

7 hours ago, HAL90000 said:

Ya this is a terrible idea don't do this. Get a 5.1 amp and a center speaker, or don't do it. Speaker wattage ratings on passive speakers are largely nonsense you can't connect "two pairs of 50W speakers to a 100W amp" that's just nonsense.

That's what connecting 50w speakers to a 100w amp is dangerous. that's the reason I am connecting 2 speakers on a pair so it will be near 80 per channel. Moreover I have tried just using 2 speakers one speaker one channel there is no distinction moreover amplifier is a small one nobsound ns 20g

[GoldenSound]

The wattage is not the issue here, the impedance is.

You'd need to check what the minimum rated load impedance for your amp is.
Some amplifiers will happily drive speakers down to 1 Ohm. Others are only rated for 8 Ohm.

Two 6 ohm speakers in parallel will provide an apparent impedance of 3 ohm to the amplifier which is quite low and you need to check your amp can drive this safely.

[Kamranbites]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:31 AM, GoldenSound said:

The wattage is not the issue here, the impedance is.

You'd need to check what the minimum rated load impedance for your amp is.
Some amplifiers will happily drive speakers down to 1 Ohm. Others are only rated for 8 Ohm.

Two 6 ohm speakers in parallel will provide an apparent impedance of 3 ohm to the amplifier which is quite low and you need to check your amp can drive this safely.

There is no problem with ohms I have checked. The thing I want to know is which pair should be clubbed aiwa+Kenwood or aiwa aiwa ? 

[cmndr]

Use the better pair of speakers OR just use an AVR. You can buy a used AVR for around $100. 


It's VERY easy to do more harm than good with more speakers. Comb filtering is a thing (some sound waves being canceled out by sound from the other speaker).

 

On 6/6/2023 at 6:27 PM, HAL90000 said:

Ya this is a terrible idea don't do this. Get a 5.1 amp and a center speaker, or don't do it. Speaker wattage ratings on passive speakers are largely nonsense you can't connect "two pairs of 50W speakers to a 100W amp" that's just nonsense.

Center speakers can be hit or miss. 2-way MTM centers, positioned at a weird angle under the TV, are often worse than no center with the signal just redirected to the L+R speakers. 

The "the center is the most important channel" advice comes from the 1990s when TVs were smaller,
the center was closer to ear level and half the time a surround sound set up was being done, it was behind an acoustically transparent projector screen and the front speakers were identical. 

If you have a large, modern TV, it's probably smarter to get REALLY good bookshelf speakers (think spend 2x on those vs the same amount on 3 speakers) that have great imaging and to do some acoustic treatment to handle reflections vs getting a center (exception: you have a very weird seating configuration and/or are VERY worried about non-centered seats). 
 

[Kamranbites]

14 hours ago, cmndr said:

Use the better pair of speakers OR just use an AVR. You can buy a used AVR for around $100. 


It's VERY easy to do more harm than good with more speakers. Comb filtering is a thing (some sound waves being canceled out by sound from the other speaker).

 

Center speakers can be hit or miss. 2-way MTM centers, positioned at a weird angle under the TV, are often worse than no center with the signal just redirected to the L+R speakers. 

The "the center is the most important channel" advice comes from the 1990s when TVs were smaller,
the center was closer to ear level and half the time a surround sound set up was being done, it was behind an acoustically transparent projector screen and the front speakers were identical. 

If you have a large, modern TV, it's probably smarter to get REALLY good bookshelf speakers (think spend 2x on those vs the same amount on 3 speakers) that have great imaging and to do some acoustic treatment to handle reflections vs getting a center (exception: you have a very weird seating configuration and/or are VERY worried about non-centered seats). 
 

One big 100w speakers vs 50+50w speakers in parallel i think both are same and dosent have any problem like combo filter 

[cmndr]

7 hours ago, Kamranbites said:

One big 100w speakers vs 50+50w speakers in parallel i think both are same and dosent have any problem like combo filter 

If you have more than one sound source, you'll have SOME comb filtering. That's physics. The more sound sources there are, within a short distance of each other, the worse it'll be. It doesn't matter if you have the best speakers and amp in the world, it still happens. It also happens when you have sound reflections off of a wall or desk. 

 

The reason why everyone in this thread has said that it's a bad idea to try to hook up multiple speakers to an amp is that you'll end up stressing the amp and in practice you'll end up with no benefits vs just playing your better pair of speakers 3dB louder, outside of the edge case of putting the second set of speakers in a different room (or on the opposite end of a large room). 

 

 

Having more speakers won't make your sound "surround" as that actually requires sending different signals to each speaker, not splitting the same signal in half and pushing it to two different speakers. You'll end up with a scenario where because the speakers are positioned in different spots but the signal from each is identical, the sound from each ends up slightly out of synch... and partially cancels out. 

 

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/the-basics-about-comb-filtering-and-how-to-avoid-it

 

If you DO want to go down the route of trying to do stuff with multiple speakers... get a used AVR. In the US they can be found for as low as $50. They're actually designed for what you're trying to do. They'll have logic that can split the channel out as well as well as ensure that there's time/phase alignment at the listening position. Ideally the AVR has a measuring microphone included with it. 

[Kamranbites]

18 hours ago, cmndr said:

If you have more than one sound source, you'll have SOME comb filtering. That's physics. The more sound sources there are, within a short distance of each other, the worse it'll be. It doesn't matter if you have the best speakers and amp in the world, it still happens. It also happens when you have sound reflections off of a wall or desk. 

 

The reason why everyone in this thread has said that it's a bad idea to try to hook up multiple speakers to an amp is that you'll end up stressing the amp and in practice you'll end up with no benefits vs just playing your better pair of speakers 3dB louder, outside of the edge case of putting the second set of speakers in a different room (or on the opposite end of a large room). 

 

 

Having more speakers won't make your sound "surround" as that actually requires sending different signals to each speaker, not splitting the same signal in half and pushing it to two different speakers. You'll end up with a scenario where because the speakers are positioned in different spots but the signal from each is identical, the sound from each ends up slightly out of synch... and partially cancels out. 

 

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/the-basics-about-comb-filtering-and-how-to-avoid-it

 

If you DO want to go down the route of trying to do stuff with multiple speakers... get a used AVR. In the US they can be found for as low as $50. They're actually designed for what you're trying to do. They'll have logic that can split the channel out as well as well as ensure that there's time/phase alignment at the listening position. Ideally the AVR has a measuring microphone included with it. 

I have no problem using just two speakers but what i notice is sound gets too low compared to 4 speakers. But when all 4 are working sound is much louder and also effective use of 200w amplifier 45+45+35+35 

[cmndr]

5 hours ago, Kamranbites said:

I have no problem using just two speakers but what i notice is sound gets too low compared to 4 speakers. But when all 4 are working sound is much louder and also effective use of 200w amplifier 45+45+35+35 

Keep in mind that louder doesn't mean better. People who have REALLY good speakers often find that they listen at lower values because they're not trying to get something that is "missing"

 

Assuming the amp's specifications are correct, you should be getting over 100dB from 2M away with 85dB/w/m efficient speakers (normalish efficiency) if you're running your amp at full power. This is so loud it's uncomfortable and is likely to cause hearing damage. 
 

If you're wiring in parallel, it would decrease resistance and you'd expect it to be louder with the knob at the same location on your amp... though you can end up with a situation where the amp runs hot/too hard.

This should be an extra +3dB assuming all the speakers are the same distance from you and there's no sound reflections or comb filtering. 

 

I'm usually not concerned about getting more loudness, at least in my own set up. My AVR "only" delivers 220W when driving 2 channels and if I had to guess I'm usually only pulling 0.01-5W most of the time and hitting peaks of around 80dB from ~2M away. 

[Kamranbites]

7 hours ago, cmndr said:

Keep in mind that louder doesn't mean better. People who have REALLY good speakers often find that they listen at lower values because they're not trying to get something that is "missing"

 

Assuming the amp's specifications are correct, you should be getting over 100dB from 2M away with 85dB/w/m efficient speakers (normalish efficiency) if you're running your amp at full power. This is so loud it's uncomfortable and is likely to cause hearing damage. 
 

If you're wiring in parallel, it would decrease resistance and you'd expect it to be louder with the knob at the same location on your amp... though you can end up with a situation where the amp runs hot/too hard.

This should be an extra +3dB assuming all the speakers are the same distance from you and there's no sound reflections or comb filtering. 

 

I'm usually not concerned about getting more loudness, at least in my own set up. My AVR "only" delivers 220W when driving 2 channels and if I had to guess I'm usually only pulling 0.01-5W most of the time and hitting peaks of around 80dB from ~2M away. 

So what do you suggest should I buy new speakers or just connect one pair and it will be ok? Aiwa pair 35w peak 42w RMS 3way speaker

[cmndr]

5 hours ago, Kamranbites said:

So what do you suggest should I buy new speakers or just connect one pair and it will be ok? Aiwa pair 35w peak 42w RMS 3way speaker

Just use the one pair of speakers that sounds better to you with the amp you already have. You can always turn the knob slightly higher if you want more loudness. The main use case for 2 pairs is for different rooms (or opposite ends of a very large room)

 

If I had to guess which is better without knowing much (I'm not really familiar with your speakers), it'd probably be the simpler 2 way speaker. It's hard to do a 3 way speaker well (you need a somewhat complex crossover network) and it looks like your speakers are entry level. As a rule of thumb first priority in any sound system is to have 2 good speakers, anything else is just extra. 

If you want to go "surround sound" then get an AVR (with the $3 calibration microphone included - those sell for $50 on Amazon for some reason) that supports it, potentially used for cheap. 

[Kamranbites]

The two pairs were just used together in hall one side two Aiwa and other side two Kenwood. and about the 3way speaker is it is truly 3 way speaker system i have opened it saw crossover too