13600kf or 13700kf?

[iameatingjam]

Recently bought a 4090 and thinking of upgrading to a more appropriate cpu ( I have an 11600kf right now).

Despite buying this ridiculiously priced gpu I don't want to spend a lot of money. I know the 13600kf is nearly as good when it comes to gaming, its cheaper and would be easier to cool.

On the other hand, I don't want to have to upgrade this system for a long time so maybe the 13700k would be better. Would only 6 P cores be enough going forward? I have a 1440p monitor but I do sometimes render at 4k for better image quality and AA ( depends on the game). I also use emulators a lot which are CPU intensive.

I heard what a good value those thermaltake peerless assassin coolers are so I ordered one off amazon. Only $41 CAD which is like $30 US. Crazy. It even comes with RGB. 

Linus did a video on the cooler recently and showed it cooled the 13600k quite well but the 13900k was a little hot. But where would the 13700kf fall?  Would this cooler be enough? Unfortunately big AIOs are not an option in my case.

OR... I could just wait till next gen. But I am not exactly thrilled about having to buy new ram. And I just kind of want to get it over with. What do you guys think?

[Dedayog]

lol, yes.... only 6 p cores are enough going forward.  You realize the best CPU for gaming is just an 8 core right?

 

If you already bought a ridiculous GPU, I don't see why you aren't going with the 7800x3d or 13900k(s).

 

Spending almost $2000 on a GPU but trying to shave $100 off the CPU just makes no sense.  Anything else hamstrings the 4090.

 

Realistically, if you can't afford the rest of the PC for the 4090... should have bought a 7900xtx.

 

Polite supportive answer:  13600k + Peerless will serve you well enough.

[HeliusMagnum]

7 minutes ago, iameatingjam said:

I don't want to have to upgrade this system for a long time

As Linus would say on the wan show, its impossible to future proof things.

[Bob__]

21 minutes ago, iameatingjam said:

Recently bought a 4090 and thinking of upgrading to a more appropriate cpu ( I have an 11600kf right now).

Despite buying this ridiculiously priced gpu I don't want to spend a lot of money. I know the 13600kf is nearly as good when it comes to gaming, its cheaper and would be easier to cool.

On the other hand, I don't want to have to upgrade this system for a long time so maybe the 13700k would be better. Would only 6 P cores be enough going forward? I have a 1440p monitor but I do sometimes render at 4k for better image quality and AA ( depends on the game). I also use emulators a lot which are CPU intensive.

I heard what a good value those thermaltake peerless assassin coolers are so I ordered one off amazon. Only $41 CAD which is like $30 US. Crazy. It even comes with RGB. 

Linus did a video on the cooler recently and showed it cooled the 13600k quite well but the 13900k was a little hot. But where would the 13700kf fall?  Would this cooler be enough? Unfortunately big AIOs are not an option in my case.

OR... I could just wait till next gen. But I am not exactly thrilled about having to buy new ram. And I just kind of want to get it over with. What do you guys think?

a 7800x3d and a Gigabyte B650 AORUS ELITE AX and a peerless assassin 120 se

[IkeaGnome]

25 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

If you already bought a ridiculous GPU, I don't see why you aren't going with the 7800x3d or 13900k(s).

As someone with a 4090 and a 13900k, a 13700k is much better if you’re trying to save any cost at all. The difference between a 700k and a 900k is slim to none while saving quite a bit of money. 

[iameatingjam]

Quote

 

lol, yes.... only 6 p cores are enough going forward.  You realize the best CPU for gaming is just an 8 core right?

 

If you already bought a ridiculous GPU, I don't see why you aren't going with the 7800x3d or 13900k(s).

 

Because they are much more expensive without that much gain. Thats really it. 

 

Quote

 

Spending almost $2000 on a GPU but trying to shave $100 off the CPU just makes no sense.  Anything else hamstrings the 4090.

 

Realistically, if you can't afford the rest of the PC for the 4090... should have bought a 7900xtx.

 

Well I might have but I was in a unique situation. Bought a 4070 from a local retailer and wasn't happy with it, giving only 2% more performance than my 3070 in some situations (bandwidth related probably). They didn't have any AMD gpus in stock and shipping one express to get into the store before my exchange window closed was exorbitantly expensive. To me the 4070 ti with its 12GB of vram and 4080 being so much cut down from the 4090 didn't make any sense to me, so I decided to go all the way. Plus I really rely on dldsr. Unlike previos generations, the 4090 really is significantly better than the step down. 13900 vs 13700, not so much. Especially when its gaming I am primarily doing. 

 

Quote

Polite supportive answer:  13600k + Peerless will serve you well enough.

Are you saying the peerless would not be enough to cool the 13700k? 

[iameatingjam]

23 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

As someone with a 4090 and a 13900k, a 13700k is much better if you’re trying to save any cost at all. The difference between a 700k and a 900k is slim to none while saving quite a bit of money. 

Thanks. I was leaning towards the 13700k I'm just not sure if air cooling is enough for it. Any idea if the peerless assassin would be enough? I suppose I could return it for a different air cooler but from graphs it looks like they are not all that much better.

[iameatingjam]

1 hour ago, HeliusMagnum said:

As Linus would say on the wan show, its impossible to future proof things.

I never said anything about future proofing. I just said I don't plan on upgrading for a while. I only upgraded from a 3570k, and gtx 1070 and a ddr3 ram in 2022. That wasn't impossible, because I did it. And that system was surprisingly capable until the end. Just obviously not on the highest game settings.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Also why 13700k specifically?

 

If you are planning on swapping the rams alongside the board might aswell just go ryzen 7700 and 32gb 6000c32 ddr5 alongside a 150-200$ b650 board

 

its mostly futureproof since if you ever desire more cpu performance just swap out the cpu simple as that, rams can simply be overclocked to accomodate the new cpu (hynix a die 8000+ capability so lotta headroom for newer cpus if they require faster ram) and board just stays the same cause vrms on most b650 are overbuilt af and if they happen to be a little too weak just strap a fan on em

[iameatingjam]

8 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Also why 13700k specifically?

 

If you are planning on swapping the rams alongside the board might aswell just go ryzen 7700 and 32gb 6000c32 ddr5 alongside a 150-200$ b650 board

 

its mostly futureproof since if you ever desire more cpu performance just swap out the cpu simple as that, rams can simply be overclocked to accomodate the new cpu (hynix a die 8000+ capability so lotta headroom for newer cpus if they require faster ram) and board just stays the same cause vrms on most b650 are overbuilt af and if they happen to be a little too weak just strap a fan on em

I guess its because all I've ever known is intel... the motherboards are cheaper and I was actually hoping to avoid buying new ram. Though I have to admit, I do like the idea of not having to buy a new motherboard to upgrade CPUs. My thoughts were the $40 cooler, $500 13700kf and a $190 b760 board. 730 CAD. or 550 USD. But I'm open to alternatives. Looks like the 7700x is cheaper. Hmmm.

[Dedayog]

1 hour ago, iameatingjam said:

Because they are much more expensive without that much gain. Thats really it. 

 

Well I might have but I was in a unique situation. Bought a 4070 from a local retailer and wasn't happy with it, giving only 2% more performance than my 3070 in some situations (bandwidth related probably). They didn't have any AMD gpus in stock and shipping one express to get into the store before my exchange window closed was exorbitantly expensive. To me the 4070 ti with its 12GB of vram and 4080 being so much cut down from the 4090 didn't make any sense to me, so I decided to go all the way. Plus I really rely on dldsr. Unlike previos generations, the 4090 really is significantly better than the step down. 13900 vs 13700, not so much. Especially when its gaming I am primarily doing. 

 

Are you saying the peerless would not be enough to cool the 13700k? 

No I am saying the 13600k is almost as good as the 13700k, so may as well get the 13600k.

 

 

[Dedayog]

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

As someone with a 4090 and a 13900k, a 13700k is much better if you’re trying to save any cost at all. The difference between a 700k and a 900k is slim to none while saving quite a bit of money. 

Then why did you get the 13900k?

[iameatingjam]

Just now, Dedayog said:

No I am saying the 13600k is almost as good as the 13700k, so may as well get the 13600k.

I see. Thanks.

[Dedayog]

10 minutes ago, iameatingjam said:

I see. Thanks.

Don't get me wrong, the 4090 is heads and tails above all the rest.  It's Nvidia's fuck you to their consumers who paid out the ass for the 2080TI and 3090/Ti.   This card actually performs A LOT better than all the rest, whereas the 2080Ti and 3090/Ti were uplifts but not THIS!

 

This card is truly scaling to it's money.  It's just a lot of money.  My contention is if you're buying a Ferrari (or have one or get gifted one, etc.) don't cheap out on the gas, tires, brakes, etc.

 

4090 is the absolute best graphics card out, bare none.  If you own it, go balls out with the rest.  

 

Or you can put those Goodyears on your Ferrari,  I won't tell

 

#Edit:  And I understand your argument if the CPUs are close enough and you're using 4k.  Cut corners where you can.  Otherside of the coin.

 

 

 

[iameatingjam]

3 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Don't get me wrong, the 4090 is heads and tails above all the rest.  It's Nvidia's fuck you to their consumers who paid out the ass for the 2080TI and 3090/Ti.   This card actually performs A LOT better than all the rest, whereas the 2080Ti and 3090/Ti were uplifts but not THIS!

 

This card is truly scaling to it's money.  It's just a lot of money.  My contention is if you're buying a Ferrari (or have one or get gifted one, etc.) don't cheap out on the gas, tires, brakes, etc.

 

4090 is the absolute best graphics card out, bare none.  If you own it, go balls out with the rest.  

 

Or you can put those Goodyears on your Ferrari,  I won't tell

 

 

 

 

I know right, I almost felt like I had no choice but to buy a 4090 if I wanted to stay with nvidia. Played right into their hand I guess. 

[Dedayog]

3 minutes ago, iameatingjam said:

I know right, I almost felt like I had no choice but to buy a 4090 if I wanted to stay with nvidia. Played right into their hand I guess. 

Could be worse, you could have bought a 3090 when they came out

 

You're paying linearly for fps with a 4090, it's almost a good bang for buck card if you want to be honest about it.   At least on the Nvidia lineup.  The 7900xtx undercuts it, and takes some of it's magic away. 

 

I'm admiring the card because it's like the 1080Ti.  Unheard of expense for the time, but actually performs to that level.

 

Enjoy the card, sir.  Focus on the fps, not the wallet

 

[ThousandBlade]

I personally wouldn't upgrade CPU that are just 2 generations old.
The performance uplift just isn't big enough to justify the cost.
 

Then again, I only upgrade graphics card every other generation. 

 

Comparing 13700KFvs13900KF, if you are not sure you need the 13900K, then you don't need it.

[Ebony Falcon]

Check out the good old gamer on you tube, 7800x3d review prep

he compared all 3 intel cpus and when all fully tuned there about 3 percent between them in performance

 

13600k iv seen cooled with the peerless assassin but please get a Z board 

[iameatingjam]

2 hours ago, ThousandBlade said:

I personally wouldn't upgrade CPU that are just 2 generations old.
The performance uplift just isn't big enough to justify the cost.
 

Then again, I only upgrade graphics card every other generation. 

 

Comparing 13700KFvs13900KF, if you are not sure you need the 13900K, then you don't need it.

I was never considering the 13900kf. It was the 13600kf vs 13700kf BUT maybe you are right. I mean my golden rule has always been, only upgrade when there's something you want to do that you cant. And... I can't say that right now. Everything I want to run, runs fine.

Maybe I'd be better off waiting a generation or two until ddr5 becomes more stable and affordable, and wait till the cpu upgrade would be more significant (50%+).

There is a couple quirks with my system, like the gpu only running on 8x lanes, which was part of my motivation for upgrading, but tbh the difference with that is probably negligible. Its gen 4 so still plenty of bandwidth.

I already ordered the cooler but I could always use it on my current cpu, maybe get some better boost clocks.

[iameatingjam]

22 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Check out the good old gamer on you tube, 7800x3d review prep

he compared all 3 intel cpus and when all fully tuned there about 3 percent between them in performance

 

13600k iv seen cooled with the peerless assassin but please get a Z board 

Why do you say that? ( just curious). Is it about the boost limits or something?

[Ebony Falcon]

Just now, iameatingjam said:

Why do you say that? ( just curious). Is it about the boost limits or something?

No it allows for voltage control, by default the 13600k runs 1.35v+ on a lot of boards, and u don’t need to much voltage to hit 5.5/5.6 oc 

 

like my board runs 100c 1.38v out the box but I Undervolted to 1.1v and temps are now 66c max in r23

 

and at 1.25v I can do 5.5ghz 4.5e

 

so you really want voltage control to tune the chip up and keep it cool 

[ThousandBlade]

42 minutes ago, iameatingjam said:

I was never considering the 13900kf. It was the 13600kf vs 13700kf BUT maybe you are right. I mean my golden rule has always been, only upgrade when there's something you want to do that you cant. And... I can't say that right now. Everything I want to run, runs fine.
 

Sry I think I was drunk or sth 

I don't know where I was reading 13900kf, must have crossed my wire somewhere.

Yeah, usually makes more sense to upgrade CPU only when needed. 

I'd say the exception would be needing some new features, or upgrading from a old entry level CPU to new baller level CPU.

There's this great write up form tom's hardware that I my self referenced a couple years ago.
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ampere-cpu-scaling-benchmarks

 

I'm running 3090ti on a 6700k overclocked and ram running at 3600hmz. I'd say the CPU performance would be similar to 10100.

same 4core 8 threads, similar memory speed and clock speed, might not be exactly as good. but no where as near as bad as 4770k.
from the graph they show, I'd be missing 3~5 FPS at 4K, depending on Ultra or Medium setting.

Sure, that's the data for 3080 difference and I'm running 3090ti. So let's double the the loss on the FPS. that's only 6~10 fps

 

Missing out on that much performance is fine.

It's not optimal, I know, that's why i'm waiting on 7800X3D to be cheaper and problem free to upgrade.

But at the end of the day, still 120FPS for everything I play. and my monitor wont go any faster.

10FPS loss is fine.

 

Now I know they dont have a similar write up for newer gen hardware.

But considering performance mismatch, last gen GPU with 8 year old CPU vs Current Gen GPU and 3 years old CPU.

I'd say I'm probably running into bigger bottle neck here.

There's no exact data to reference here, but from what we can infer, it's probably fine.

Again, like I said. If you're not sure you need it, you probably don't need it.

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

9 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Then why did you get the 13900k?

There’s plenty of multi core loads beyond gaming where it can make sense. 

[Mister Woof]

only benefit of the 13900k over the 13700k in gaming is factory clock speed and slight increase in cache.

 

they both have the same amount of P cores and another 8 E cores aren't going to do much 

 

but yeah if you got the money for a 4090, why not get the best?

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

13 hours ago, iameatingjam said:

Thanks. I was leaning towards the 13700k I'm just not sure if air cooling is enough for it. Any idea if the peerless assassin would be enough? I suppose I could return it for a different air cooler but from graphs it looks like they are not all that much better.

To go back to the original question, the 13700k is ~ a 250W cpu if it's left stock. The Peerless Assassin does pretty well on 200W cpus under load. I'd expect the 13700k to be a bit warmer, but not at thermal throttle range, especially for games since that's a lighter load than benchmarks.