Help with a Small Form Factor PC

[durfsurn]

Hi, I'm trying to ascertain whether my ideal config is even possible, I must admit I'm a bit out of my depth in the SFF space but I'd like to move from AIO contained units like Intel's NUCs into an SFF with off the shelf parts.

 

My basic requirements are:

• Ideally fanless (both PSU and CPU, is this even possible? are there 65W heatsinks or would I need a small noctua fan)
• Mini-ITX motherboard
• Ryzen 7000 series (non-x) processor (65W)
• Motherboard with USB-C DisplayLink
• PSU could be internal (ideal) or external if thats the only option, should only need ~150W
• Don't need any GPU
• Fits into the smallest case possible (sub 5L basically)
• able to run VMs and run Silverblue on the host

I'm located in Australia and the intended use case is a highly portable PC that can fit in a backpack with really good CPU power for program compilations and other professional workloads. Can anyone shed some light on whether this is even possible before I go diving into research or does anyone have any reccomendations?

 

Cheers

[Bombastinator]

45 minutes ago, durfsurn said:

Hi, I'm trying to ascertain whether my ideal config is even possible, I must admit I'm a bit out of my depth in the SFF space but I'd like to move from AIO contained units like Intel's NUCs into an SFF with off the shelf parts.

 

My basic requirements are:

• Ideally fanless (both PSU and CPU, is this even possible? are there 65W heatsinks or would I need a small noctua fan)
• Mini-ITX motherboard
• Ryzen 7000 series (non-x) processor (65W)
• Motherboard with USB-C DisplayLink
• PSU could be internal (ideal) or external if thats the only option, should only need ~150W
• Don't need any GPU
• Fits into the smallest case possible (sub 5L basically)
• able to run VMs and run Silverblue on the host

I'm located in Australia and the intended use case is a highly portable PC that can fit in a backpack with really good CPU power for program compilations and other professional workloads. Can anyone shed some light on whether this is even possible before I go diving into research or does anyone have any reccomendations?

 

Cheers

The ryzen4 stuff has a not-real-good iGP, so this sounds very viable, though I don’t know about the tiny psu.  There are some brick-and bar type things that are that small.  Fanless also strikes me as a really bad idea.  The problem is this thing needs to be rugged. And fanless coolers are air coolers and fanless air coolers are big and fragile.  120 AIO seems like the move here.  There is actually stuff designed for that use case that has stuff like monitors integrated into the side panel and stuff.  They are industrial and extra ordinarily expensive.  Like thousand dollar cases. If you want to throw something in a backpack and carry it around, laptops are designed for this.  Desktop parts aren’t just not particularly rugged, they’re often not designed to be even moved.  Those industrial cases are made for things like pipeline installs where you need really high end computing in a harsh climate.  With no internet connectivity.  There also all older because internet connectivity is easier to arrange these days and all that is needed for high end computing is a thin client and a net connection.

 

so these tremendously expensive solutions are getting beat out by a Chromebook with a starlink connection and some PaaS

[cat2devnull]

You could look at a Pico PSU to save space.
150 watts is well within the realistic range of what they can supply.
All going well you can tuck to power pack into the case to have a neater overall solution.

Keep in mind that once you go over about 100-120 watt you are going beyond spec for the amps that you should put across a standard barrel connector at 12v. The higher end solutions will use different type of pinned connector or move to 19v which is what a lot of the higher end laptop PSUs use.

If you just want to buy something off the shelf then here is an option.
https://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT-150W-Adapter-Power-Kit

If you want to mix and match then I recommend just buying a power brick from a reputable laptop manufacturer rather than a generic no-name. It's pretty easy and cheap to get a 180w 19v power adapter. Then just pickup a 19v pico PSU and your good to go.

[durfsurn]

Thanks for all of your thoughts so far.

 

This is what I have specced out currently - https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/Q9Xvxs (no storage as I have some already). And I believe I need to request an adapter bracket from Noctua for AM5 but this seems to be an ideal system.

• ~3L box
• Unfortunately not fanless but should be able to quieten the CPU fan
  • I would guess running the 120W DC power supply you can get with that case would be too close to the power requirements of the system, hence the internal 150W adapter but I would like to hear your thoughts - if possible that would be preferable since its fanless (120W, 19Vdc, 6.3A)
• 7000 series CPU
• USB-C DisplayLink motherboard (or appears to be anyway)      

The only things I am not 100% confident on are:

• PSU (as above)
• can the 7900(non-x) run two monitors off USB-C display output via monitor daisy chaining?
• does that motherboard definitely support the above config 

[Bombastinator]

23 minutes ago, durfsurn said:

Thanks for all of your thoughts so far.

 

This is what I have specced out currently - https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/Q9Xvxs (no storage as I have some already). And I believe I need to request an adapter bracket from Noctua for AM5 but this seems to be an ideal system.

• ~3L box
• Unfortunately not fanless but should be able to quieten the CPU fan
  • I would guess running the 120W DC power supply you can get with that case would be too close to the power requirements of the system, hence the internal 150W adapter but I would like to hear your thoughts - if possible that would be preferable since its fanless (120W, 19Vdc, 6.3A)
• 7000 series CPU
• USB-C DisplayLink motherboard (or appears to be anyway)      

The only things I am not 100% confident on are:

• PSU (as above)
• can the 7900(non-x) run two monitors off USB-C display output via monitor daisy chaining?
• does that motherboard definitely support the above config 

Heh. “Unfortunately not fanless.  With a 7900.  You know how much wattage those things make?  You’re going to have to undervolt just so the thing will run without tegularly crashing.  Make sure it’s an atx 3.1 PSU btw. Zen4 is known to have the same transient spike issue basically everything after zen2 had. Running on the iGP I see.  Looks like a math machine.  Spreadsheets or something.  I’m not at all sure that cooler or that PSU is enough even then.  That’s a big big hot cpu.

[durfsurn]

Claims its only a 65W CPU (remember this is non-X 7900)! I'd be interested in any other cooler suggestions (I don't think an AIO will fit).

 

I don't need long extended turbo CPU power - really only need short-shorter bursts (from like 20s to like 2 or 3 minutes), for compilation of code, in which case I'd be more than happy for the fan to ramp all the way up. I would expect the CPU and cooler to be basically silent most of the time without any undervolting. Noctua claims that cooler can handle a 7600X which has a far bigger TDP (yes yes I know TDP can be flawed but the 7600X is like 105W)

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, durfsurn said:

Claims its only a 65W CPU (remember this is non-X 7900)! I'd be interested in any other cooler suggestions (I don't think an AIO will fit).

 

I don't need long extended turbo CPU power - really only need short-shorter bursts (from like 20s to like 2 or 3 minutes), for compilation of code, in which case I'd be more than happy for the fan to ramp all the way up. I would expect the CPU and cooler to be basically silent most of the time without any undervolting. Noctua claims that cooler can handle a 7600X which has a far bigger TDP (yes yes I know TDP can be flawed but the 7600X is like 105W)

A7900?!  More like 180w. A 7600 might be that, though it’s probably a bit higher.  That thing would work with a 65w real chip in it.  I suggest watching the GN review of zen4.  It has some very weird boost stuff.  The 95°c thing is apparently also avoidable, so that will want to be looked up too.  Tech Jesus is pretty knowledgable about this stuff

[IkeaGnome]

37 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh. “Unfortunately not fanless.  With a 7900.  You know how much wattage those things make? 

Apparently around 85W with no PBO enabled

 

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Apparently around 85W with no PBO enabled

 

Well there you go then.  When you drop that 95°c thing changes stuff.  Notice the X one is 170w which apparently goes up to 200w with the non-x. That’s tech Jesus btw.  This is apparently a follow up of the zen4 review I was talking about.  Good link. This implies it effectively self-under locks so you don’t have to. Can this be set up easily this way while having a cooler that can’t handle the PBO at all?  I suspect all one would have to be able to do is get into bios.  It’s sort of looking like all that extra wattage does near nothing in some circumstances.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Bombastinator

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Can this be set up easily this way while having a cooler that can’t handle the PBO at all?  I suspect all one would have to be able to do is get into bios.

Without PBO enabled, that's out of box experience. 

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-9-7900

It comes with the Wraith Prism.

And peaks at 70C in Cinnebench runs with that Wraith Prism at 88W...

[Bombastinator]

55 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Without PBO enabled, that's out of box experience. 

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-9-7900

It comes with the Wraith Prism.

And peaks at 70C in Cinnebench runs with that Wraith Prism at 88W...

A wraith prism should have the guts for this venture then.  If it’s thin enough for the case (and I’m seeing some AMD stock coolers in pics) the aftermarket cooler may not even be needed then.  Both are effectively two pipe coolers (4 halves in the case of the scythe) so little would be gained I suspect.   That case is wild btw.  I like it.  Never seen one before. All those slots in the side look wide enough for a x16 pcie cable to slip through.    Don’t even need pcie4.  3 would be enough bandwidth for even a 4090.  All it would take to attach a big ol’ video card to that thing would be about a hundred twenty bucks worth of aliexpress garbage if it ever became needed.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Bombastinator

[durfsurn]

Thanks for all that above!

 

Does confirm my suspicions that 120W is too low but 150W would be acceptable.

 

Anyone know about these two q's?

• can the 7900(non-x) run two monitors off USB-C display output via monitor daisy chaining?
• does that motherboard definitely support the above config 

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, durfsurn said:

Thanks for all that above!

 

Does confirm my suspicions that 120W is too low but 150W would be acceptable.

 

Anyone know about these two q's?

• can the 7900(non-x) run two monitors off USB-C display output via monitor daisy chaining?
• does that motherboard definitely support the above config 

No but I know where to look.  As for the daisy chaining thing iirc that’s a function of some sort of 2.1.   The question is more will the motherboard do it.  I would look up the motherboard specs, the chipset specs, and a motherboard review or two.

[durfsurn]

Quote

 

Integrated Graphics Processor:

1. 1 x DisplayPort, supporting a maximum resolution of 3840x2160@144 Hz
   * Support for DisplayPort 1.4 version and HDR.
2. 1 x USB Type-C^® port, supporting USB 3.2 Gen 2 and DisplayPort video outputs and a maximum resolution of 3840x2160@144 Hz
   * Support for DisplayPort 1.4 version and HDR.
3. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 7680x4320@60 Hz
   * Support for HDMI 2.1 version and HDCP 2.3.
   ** Support native HDMI 2.1 TMDS compatible ports.

(Graphics specifications may vary depending on CPU support.)

This is from Gigabyte's website.

• The board supports DP 1.4 over USB-C so it should work?

The bit that is confusing me is the wording of video outputs but no discrete mention of how many displays it supports, either here or on the AMD website.

[durfsurn]

 

Final Build (pictured next to its predecessor):

• AMD RYZEN 7900 (non-x)
• ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-I GAMING WIFI AM5 mini ITX Motherboard
• Kingston SNV2S/1000G 1000G NV2 M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD
• Crucial CT2K16G48C40U5 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 UDIMM 4800MHz CL40
• INWIN Chopin MINI-ITX Black Chassis 150W PSU
• Noctua NH-L9a-AM4-CH-BK NH-L9a-AM4 Chromax Black Low Profile AM4 CPU (with AM5 adapter)

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, durfsurn said:

 

Final Build (pictured next to its predecessor):

• AMD RYZEN 7900 (non-x)
• ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-I GAMING WIFI AM5 mini ITX Motherboard
• Kingston SNV2S/1000G 1000G NV2 M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD
• Crucial CT2K16G48C40U5 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 UDIMM 4800MHz CL40
• INWIN Chopin MINI-ITX Black Chassis 150W PSU
• Noctua NH-L9a-AM4-CH-BK NH-L9a-AM4 Chromax Black Low Profile AM4 CPU (with AM5 adapter)

AMD’s APU on the 7 series is nothing to write home about.  It works though.  And it’s on all their chips.