Advice for Redoing an Engineering Fraternity's House and Backyard Audio System

[yoyodawulf]

(This is a bit of a longer one so there is a TL:DR at the end )

 

Hi all,

I am part of my university's professional engineering fraternity (just a jolly group of engineering and CS nerds ) and we are in the process of upgrading our combined indoor and outdoor sound system. The installer of the original system was an previous member and wasn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed (to say the least). In fact, when I took on the job of redoing the system I found quite a few red and black wires touching where they shouldn't. We also discovered that the member had drilled holes through some structural beams of the house to make the wire runs. The main problem is that not only does the system lack volume, whenever it is turned up the outside speakers crackle badly and just sound horrible in general. The inside speakers aren't the best sounding either but I have a feeling with proper rewiring and the removal of the outside speakers (spoiler for my proposed solution) they could sound decent even at louder volumes.

 

The current system is set up as follows (Picture of audio rack included at the end):

• The amp and mixer are housed in a cabinet in the main rec room.
• We have three inputs (AUX, Bluetooth, and microphone) going into an Eurorack Pro Model RX1602 16-input line mixer (absolute overkill for our needs as we almost exclusively use Bluetooth)
• The mixer then outputs to a Pyle pro PZR 10XA 3300W two output channel power amplifier.
• One channel of the amplifier goes (via speaker wire) to (5) 8 ohm in-wall speakers around the rec room (one of which could be disconnected if that would make ohm matching easier)
• The second channel (also speaker wire) makes a moderately long run to the backyard which is directly outside the rec room where two outdoor speakers are hung from mounts.

 

So here is my proposed solution that I would love some feedback on: 

• Remove the outside speakers from the inside system and rewire the inside speakers properly so they are ohm matched to the amp
• Buy two much bigger PA speakers for outside and mount them to the wall (the space right outside of the rec room has a slanted roof over it so they won't get wet when it rains)
• Buy a new amp just for the outside PA speakers and wire the PA speakers to the new amp using 1/4 inch connectors or the SpeakON connectors that the PA speakers have.
• Lastly split the output of the line mixer so it goes to both the inside amp and the outside amp.

 

My main questions are:

• Am I overthinking things and there is some much simpler solution that lets us have pretty loud speakers outside with independent (between inside and outside) volume control but uses the same Bluetooth input as the indoor speakers.
• If not, would the following speakers be a good choice for the outdoor speakers: Rockville RSG12.4 12 3-Way 1000 Watt 4-Ohm Passive DJ/Pro Audio PA Speakers
  • If those are good, what amp would be a good match for those speakers
  • If those are not good, what speaker-amp combo would you recommend
• Would splitting the output of the mixer diminish the quality or volume of the output? (note that the wire run from the split output of the mixer to the outside amp could be close to 100ft).
  • We aren't aiming for the highest quality audio but also don't want it to sound bad.
• Is there any way to keep the whole upgrade relatively cheap (under 2k USD or if possible under 1.5k USD)

 

Thank you in advance for any advice or tips and apologies if I made any silly mistakes, this is my first forte into audio setups 

 

TL:DR (I don't blame you)

Current indoor (5x 8 ohm) and outdoor (2x unknown ohm) speakers sound awful, aren't loud enough, and are all driven by a single two-channel amp. My solution would be to split the output of our mixer in two. The current amp would be used for just inside speakers and a new amp placed outside would be used for a pair of big PA speakers. Does this make sense or am I crazy?

 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

Just to make it more complicated, the problem with outdoor sound is it Carrie’s to the neighbors so a really loud outdoor system may not be your friend.  Inside gets buffered by things like walls and stuff, so it’s less of a problem. There you have to worry about things like sound reflection and absorption though.  My sister’s furnace for example liked to suck up base so much it needed two subs.  The furnace wasn’t changeable so we just powered through it.  It wasn’t a better solution but it was quick and easy.  12 gauge lamp cord doesn’t make the very best speaker cable but it is really cheap.  Also weathertight does matter for outdoor speakers even if they don’t get rained on 100% humidity is still 100% humidity.  Also there is winter.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bombastinator

[jaslion]

36 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Just to make it more complicated, the problem with outdoor sound is it Carrie’s to the neighbors so a really loud outdoor system may not be your friend.  Inside gets buffered by things like walls and stuff, so it’s less of a problem. There you have to worry about things like sound reflection and absorption though.  My sister’s furnace for example liked to suck up base so much it needed two subs.  The furnace wasn’t changeable so we just powered through it.  It wasn’t a better solution but it was quick and easy.  12 gauge lamp cord doesn’t make the very best speaker cable but it is really cheap.  Also weathertight does matter for outdoor speakers even if they don’t get rained on 100% humidity is still 100% humidity.  Also there is winter.

And to keep things cheap op can go thrift store hunting. Plentt of great speakers for no money available.

[Thomas4]

Unfortunately, your biggest problem is not with the speaker setup. It's that the structural integrity of the building itself may be compromised by the holes IF they were drilled into load bearing beams and struts. Get a licensed structural engineer to look it over immediately, if not sooner. YES, it may be that serious, it's not something to screw around with. Even if there is no danger, you'll be able to rest a lot easier and your building won't be red flagged as uninhabitable.

 

For speakers use ones designed for outdoors, as they'll not only be waterproof, but the connections to them will be weatherized as well. For cabling use shielded cables, more expensive, but your ears will appreciate the difference.

 

For zoning, at least separate the indoor and outdoor and outdoor speakers into 2 separate circuits as this will allow for much easier adjustment of sound quality and volume leveling. 

 

And if you really want to get down to control, split the indoor speakers into their own zones by floor and location. This will permit the speakers in the common areas to be turned up, while those in more private areas can remain lower. You can even do the same if you have more than one pair of outdoor speakers.

 

Here's where a sound engineer can give you good advice as every situation is different enough that there is no one solution for all.

 

Probably, a lot more than you were contemplating, but for piece of mind and safety, get those holes looked after, please. It probably isn't a problem, but why take the chance.

[yoyodawulf]

8 hours ago, Thomas4 said:

Unfortunately, your biggest problem is not with the speaker setup. It's that the structural integrity of the building itself may be compromised by the holes IF they were drilled into load bearing beams and struts. Get a licensed structural engineer to look it over immediately, if not sooner. YES, it may be that serious, it's not something to screw around with. Even if there is no danger, you'll be able to rest a lot easier and your building won't be red flagged as uninhabitable.

 

For speakers use ones designed for outdoors, as they'll not only be waterproof, but the connections to them will be weatherized as well. For cabling use shielded cables, more expensive, but your ears will appreciate the difference.

 

For zoning, at least separate the indoor and outdoor and outdoor speakers into 2 separate circuits as this will allow for much easier adjustment of sound quality and volume leveling. 

 

And if you really want to get down to control, split the indoor speakers into their own zones by floor and location. This will permit the speakers in the common areas to be turned up, while those in more private areas can remain lower. You can even do the same if you have more than one pair of outdoor speakers.

 

Here's where a sound engineer can give you good advice as every situation is different enough that there is no one solution for all.

 

Probably, a lot more than you were contemplating, but for piece of mind and safety, get those holes looked after, please. It probably isn't a problem, but why take the chance.

Thank you for the reply, we have had someone come in and check the beams in the past. They weren't load bearing and we made sure everything was safe, but I appreciate your concern and safety is definitely not something to take lightly. 

 

In terms of the sound system, I'll take a look at weather proof speakers and shielded cable. 

 

When you say "separate the indoor and outdoor and outdoor speakers into 2 separate circuits" would that look something like what my proposed solution was, where the only thing connecting them was the output from the mixer? We want different volume control for inside and outside but we want the same song to come out of both inside and outside speakers. 

 

Lastly I don't think we need super granular control of the inside. It's just 1 room with 5 speakers. 

 

Thanks again for the reply! 

[Thomas4]

Yes, you proposed solution is what I meant, I was just using different termonology.

[Bombastinator]

5 hours ago, yoyodawulf said:

Thank you for the reply, we have had someone come in and check the beams in the past. They weren't load bearing and we made sure everything was safe, but I appreciate your concern and safety is definitely not something to take lightly. 

 

In terms of the sound system, I'll take a look at weather proof speakers and shielded cable. 

 

When you say "separate the indoor and outdoor and outdoor speakers into 2 separate circuits" would that look something like what my proposed solution was, where the only thing connecting them was the output from the mixer? We want different volume control for inside and outside but we want the same song to come out of both inside and outside speakers. 

 

Lastly I don't think we need super granular control of the inside. It's just 1 room with 5 speakers. 

 

Thanks again for the reply! 

If the holes are in the middle they don’t do much. It’s the edges of a beam that carry the load you can put like a 1 1/2” hole in the center of a 2x4 before it starts to have problems.  Notching then can be dangerous though.