It’s time for some hard truth - Aqvox SE "Audiophile" Network Switch

[power666]

20 hours ago, Thaldor said:

Pretty much the biggest difference between AVB and Dante is that AVB is that Dante is older and made for studios and so it has the pros of not needing anything too much special, you can get Focusrite 32-channel interface, put in the studio, attach network cable and that's pretty much it. Dante is licensed so not many like that just like they do not like that you don't need anything too special to use it, which is why "open" IEEE AVB was done and you won't be surprised to find Harman and Apple supporting it. AVB is bti easier to setup as a network but it is significantly more expensive to build and it's pretty much specs wise worse (Dante is at max. 512 channels in and out so 1028 channels total per network with maximum latency of 1ms while AVB manages even with the more expensive network gear just 384 channels per network with 2ms max latency). Pretty much only reason to go AVB is brand loyalty or you want to be "OpEn-sOUrCe FoR lYfE!".

The difference between Dante and AVB is only a few years.  The real difference is that Dante was designed to work over existing switches at the time instead of needing new network switch chips spun to support the queuing enhancements.  Audinate also got the protocol discovery right and all of their products early on needed to be certified for interoperability.  That is why it took off as they got the first mover advantage.

 

While the Harmon group does support AVB in a few select products, they're mostly a Dante outfit at the professional level.

 

Both AVB and Dante support more than 512 channels over a network.  How much you can move over a single link is bandwidth dependent and how the audio channels are configured (ie how much bandwidth an individual audio stream takes).  There is a slight advantage to AVB due to how it can bundle channels together to reduce some of the overhead.  AVB does have a unique limitation to the number of queues a switch can support simultaneously with the enterprise stuff typically having 1024 queues, consumer 128/256 queues.  That's for how many streams can be moved and with bundling the raw number of audio channels can be higher. 

 

20 hours ago, Thaldor said:

And if you are doing something critical like live broadcasting or something that must work, always go Dante because AVB does not support failsafe connections, as in a lot of Dante gear has 2 connections for the failsafe while none of the AVB stuff has any kind of failsafe unless you do a whole failsafe network and double everything.

 

Both AVB and Dante fail safe connections essentially require the doubling of hardware to get it right:  the goal is to remove a single point of failure.

 

AVB not only does support redundant connections, it also can support fabrics between switches.  Redundant streams are tagged as such with the switch network actually attempts to have it take a different path than the primary stream.  Interestingly enough, the primary and secondary streams can coexist on the same logical network, something Dante cannot do (the primary and secondary require separate subnets).

[power666]

20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

This paragraph is completely wrong, but please don't expect me to point out everything. I only mentioned Dante because just like AVB it's a truly and utterly stupid idea to use it at home.

Dante capable speakers are used because it saves hours and hours of labour. In a venue with 50 speakers across 10 rooms you can easily route any mix bus where you need it with just a few mouse-clicks. That's why these speakers are use, not to impress somebody.

I will agree that Dante based speakers do save money in terms of labor and deployment due to the reliance on CAT cabling.  That is also why I would argue that they are also a good fit for home usage:  one cable cable type to rule them all.  The next logical move is to go wireless and WiFi 7 will bring AVB/TSN features.  Just would need to power the speakers which brings the debate to the classic passive/active speaker argument. 

[power666]

22 hours ago, Jenos_Idanian said:

I would argue that you proved my point. It's not rare. You can get it across multiple vendors across multiple product lines. I'm not talking about small business or soho grade stuff. Real enterprise level stuff. Cisco catalyst couldn't fit that bill any more, and those are some of the most common units out there. Sure, no juniper or brocade, but this isn't exactly hard to find. Or rare.

Brocade is sort of on that list:  Extreme Networks acquired them.  You do need to run in EXOS mode currently as SLX and the Fabric Engine do not support AVB/TSN features (yet).

[IRMacGuyver]

Why is no one suing these types of people for false advertising.  I get why no one can stop the crappy ones on Amazon (though I think at that point Amazon should be responsible for hosting it) but this is a supposedly legit company with real ads.  I think Linus and people like him should bite the bullet and sue them for the rest of us.  Start a class action or something. 

[kasugatei]

There is a really simple way to distinguish people who know how sound works from “audiophiles”. The first group will have probably the most important part of having a good sound - an acoustic room treatment while the latter group will pursue “better sound” via magical cables, magical stones, magical switches etc. and their setup will be in a normal room.

[Rex Hite]

Step one should be making sure your ears are clear of excess wax!

 

There ought to be audiophile ear cleaning kits with audiophile grade swabs and 'special'  hydrogen peroxide formulas. All at a huge price premium. There's a business opportunity.

[JustinTynan]

If they still have the network switch they really need to check If the holographic stickers hidden all around the PCB are radioactive.

 

[Cliff Hulcoop]

Many are confusing audiophiles wanting perfection, when many audiophiles simply want to listen to music the way they like to hear it. For example, I forget the exact details so forgive me on this and this is from memory, but I saw a documentary or it may have been a YouTube video featuring a manufacturer of a special samples type music keyboard. It was based on a sampling machine from the 1960s (I forget the details but The Beatles used it for the intro of Strawberry Fields). In the one available in the 60s it used lengths of 7 inch magnetic tape (like those found on reel to reel tape recorders) but strips of it instead. The company were trying to make a modern portable version of that. They recorded the original samples digitally but they felt the sound did not have the "warm" analogue sound of the original so they then recorded the sounds onto 7 inch tape using an analogue tape recorder then digitally sampled the analogue tape recording of the original digital sounds.

From a "perfection" and "ultimate sound quality" perspective this makes no sense from a musical sense it makes perfect sense. The tape recorder was itself acting as an instrument affecting the sound to make it sound warmer and nicer even though it was now technically inferior.

 

I have come across many top of the range (usually CD) systems which have excellent clarity and have astonishing sound quality but are in my view totally unlistenable. They seem to have stripped the heart and soul out of the music where you can admire the technical engineers of the equipment but no longer want to feel like you want to cry when the singer is singing to you.

 

The analogue warmth people talk about gives the feeling the singer is singing to YOU or playing for YOU. With digital systems it sounds like you cannot hear the essence of the melody for the detail.

 

Also some mock audiophiles and how much they pay for things but it is like any hobby. How much is anything worth? To some a $1000 Graphics card is value for money if they have spent $5000 on games. Some have spent thousands of pounds on CDs or records and want to hear them as best as possible the way they like.

 

Regarding scamming people, not all audiophiles are IT experts and genuinely don't know how computers work nor should they need to. Companies blatantly ripping off people should be shut down.

 

But it becomes problematic when people argue about value for money.