Ballistix SKUs?

[An0maly_76]

Got some Ballistix from eBay to correct the apparent RAM issues in my interim 3600X build. However, when I received it this morning, I noticed something. I specifically double and triple-checked the SKU I needed (BL16G36C16U4B.M16FE1) against the listing before I bought it, in the listing as MPN, as shown below. However, the kit sent is BL2K16G36C16U4B, which is on the same listing further below. Possibly a mistake, but before I get into this with the seller, I wanted to check as to whether these two numbers possibly cross-referenced each other. It sure doesn't look that way.

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Well same timings so i assume it wont make a diff, though check thaiphoon burner for ic as i bet thats where the diff lies, if its garbage 16gbit rev e just return it for 16gbit rev b

 

doesnt matter that much if you dont oc but a 2666 bin 16gbit rev b will demolish even a 3600 16gbit bin rev e as a reference to how bad 16gbit rev e is, very painful for both stealing a profile off the internet oc and (god forbid) manual oc

[An0maly_76]

10 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well same timings so i assume it wont make a diff, though check thaiphoon burner for ic as i bet thats where the diff lies, if its garbage 16gbit rev e just return it for 16gbit rev b

 

doesnt matter that much if you dont oc but a 2666 bin 16gbit rev b will demolish even a 3600 16gbit bin rev e as a reference to how bad 16gbit rev e is, very painful for both stealing a profile off the internet oc and (god forbid) manual oc

Actually, just realized I could see the numbers on the actual DIMMs through the plastic window on the package and THOSE match. So it appears that perhaps BL2K16G36C16U4B is simply two BL16G36C16U4B.M16FE1 to make a 32GB kit. However, the board only shows support for 16GB of this SKU. Probably a dumb question, but just to be sure, using one versus two shouldn't affect timings or anything, right? For starters, I don't understand why a board would support one of these sticks, but not two, when there are two DIMM slots, but I've also had just a little too much aggravation lately, and I'm getting tired of pulling machines apart more than once to fix what could have been prevented.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

Actually, just realized I could see the numbers on the actual DIMMs through the plastic window on the package and THOSE match. So it appears that perhaps BL2K16G36C16U4B is simply two BL16G36C16U4B.M16FE1 to make a 32GB kit. However, the board only shows support for 16GB of this SKU. Probably a dumb question, but just to be sure, using one versus two shouldn't affect timings or anything, right? For starters, I don't understand why a board would support one of these sticks, but not two, when there are two DIMM slots, but I've also had just a little too much aggravation lately, and I'm getting tired of pulling machines apart more than once to fix what could have been prevented.

No timings shouldnt be diff though check thaiphoon burner anyways, who knows if its mix rev e and b

 

Also what board? Ive mostly ignored qvl as validating a 3200 kit is like validating all newer 3200 kits because random ics on that bin

[Guest]

4 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

Actually, just realized I could see the numbers on the actual DIMMs through the plastic window on the package and THOSE match. So it appears that perhaps BL2K16G36C16U4B is simply two BL16G36C16U4B.M16FE1 to make a 32GB kit. However, the board only shows support for 16GB of this SKU. Probably a dumb question, but just to be sure, using one versus two shouldn't affect timings or anything, right? For starters, I don't understand why a board would support one of these sticks, but not two, when there are two DIMM slots, but I've also had just a little too much aggravation lately, and I'm getting tired of pulling machines apart more than once to fix what could have been prevented.

I'm not sure what somerandomtechboi is talking about when Micron Rev E hit a world record of 5726Mhz beating Adata by nearly 100mhz all the way back in 2019. But one thing is certain, you're not aiming for that so it doesn't matter. 

 

Generally speaking Micron makes really decent robust memory kits which tend to have way less issues than SK Hynix. Of course you can get a bad revision or one that doesn't clock as well or one with looser timings, but at low speeds of 3200mhz, it just needs to work. Most of these kits, rev b or rev e will all do 4000mhz with a bit of tweaking. 

[An0maly_76]

2 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

No timings shouldnt be diff though check thaiphoon burner anyways, who knows if its mix rev e and b

 

Also what board? Ive mostly ignored qvl as validating a 3200 kit is like validating all newer 3200 kits because random ics on that bin

For these Ballistix, an ASRock B450M HDV R4.0.

 

From what I've seen, I can't say I agree as to validating all 3200 kits if you validate one. Reason being, at least three 3200 kits by Patriot are validated for my Asus B550-PLUS,, but not a different 3200 Ballistix kit I used in it with the same timings and voltage. And I'm sure they tested this kit, because they validated A Ballistix SKU, just not the one I was using. Apparently it caused undesired operation -- Gee, I wonder why? I have found that those were made in single rank and dual rank, and I think the stuff I was using is dual rank.

 

Since it was built, the Asus B550-PLUS machine had random POST failures every 8-10 cold boots. Sure, the RAM tested fine solo and tandem in that machine, but swapping it for the SAME kit from another machine didn't help. While the Asus was being RMA'd I used one of those DIMMs in the ASRock B450M. Acted strange at POST, displayed a constant hourglass when running. Tried adding the other DIMM, no POST with that DIMM, solo or tandem. I started getting random audio and audio / video cutouts when I reinstalled the one good DIMM. Turns out they're not validated for the ASRock board either. I also can't find that 3200 kit on any QVL list anywhere for any board. I don't think any of that is a coincidence.

 

I plan to complete the interim 3600X build with the ASRock board in the Corsair 4000X, probably going to flip it once it's back together. I decided I wanted an internal optical drive, so the Asus B550-PLUS is going in a Fractal Pop Air XL with my 5900X and Patriot Viper 4 Blackout.

 

@Guest 5150I, for one, am starting to believe that building a machine these days is like a jigsaw puzzle in that if you don't have the correct three pieces made to fit each other at this junction or that junction, it's never going to work right -- if it works at all. I've had two kits of this 3200 Ballistix now, and both machines were neurotic to say the least. It just never occurred to me to check QVL lists, because until now, I never knew that was a thing. Turns out they weren't validated for the MSI B450M that was in my 1700 rig, either.

Edited August 12, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, Guest 5150 said:

I'm not sure what somerandomtechboi is talking about when Micron Rev E hit a world record of 5726Mhz beating Adata by nearly 100mhz all the way back in 2019

Im talking about 16gbit rev e aka garbage and not the 8gbit actually good rev e

 

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

ASRock B450M HDV

[An0maly_76]

3 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Im talking about 16gbit rev e aka garbage and not the 8gbit actually good rev e

 

What's so bad about that one? I've only got a 3600X on it, it should be fine.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, An0maly_76 said:

What's so bad about that one? I've only got a 3600X on it, it should be fine.

Bottom of the barrel crap board, i hope you didnt buy a new one and get ripped off

 

B450 pro4 is a better choice

[An0maly_76]

Just now, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Bottom of the barrel crap board, i hope you didnt buy a new one and get ripped off

 

B450 pro4 is a better choice

At $75 new vs $165 new for a B550 when a B550 wasn't necessary, I hardly think I got ripped off. Will likely be flipping that machine once I get both back together anyway.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

3 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

At $75 new vs $165 new for a B550 when a B550 wasn't necessary, I hardly think I got ripped off. Will likely be flipping that machine once I get both back together anyway.

75$?

[GuiltySpark_]

14 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

@GuiltySpark_I, for one, am starting to believe that building a machine these days is like a jigsaw puzzle in that if you don't have the correct three pieces made to fit each other at this junction or that junction, it's never going to work right -- if it works at all. I've had two kits of this 3200 Ballistix now, and both machines were neurotic to say the least. It just never occurred to me to check QVL lists, because until now, I never knew that was a thing. Turns out they weren't validated for the MSI B450M that was in my 1700 rig, either.

I'll be honest I've built a lot of machine and I can't remember ever looking at a QVL list. Maybe I've just been lucky as I've never had this many problems as you seem to be going through across various threads now. 

 

Not to discredit everyone who's been replying but I think the overall situation needs to be taken into account. You're just trying to have a working PC, maybe throw on XMP if you're feeling crazy. All this talk of die manufacturers and Micron vs SK Hynix and E die this B die that.. I mean correct me if I'm wrong here but this has absolutely nothing to do with normal people buying and using RAM in their computer. 

 

You'll hear this as "reading the room" or more specifically, "catering to your audience". To a certain degree, a lot of the responses you're getting are as if you're an experienced RAM overclocker the this super technical speak is what you're looking. Is it? Is this helpful? I dunno, you tell me. Additionally, there might be a little hint of overthinking what really should be a simple thing. You buy RAM, it works or it doesn't, if it doesn't you return it and buy something else. (might have oversimplified that for effect) There is nothing special about Crucial specific RAM for your application. People buy all sorts of RAM for these machines all the time and can have minimal to no problems at all. My last two Ryzen systems had *gasp* Corsair RAM and.. I know.. were just fine at their rated speeds (2700x, now 5800x). The argument someone will have is oh, you got lucky, everyone else has problems. Well, in this instance, I'm not the one with the problems. Makes you think.

 

Perspective is important. 

 

[An0maly_76]

@SomerandomtechyboiDude... $75 versus $150 for a B550. B550 wasn't necessary and I'll llkely flip the machine anyway. If not, it should be fine for replacing the H61 / i7-2600 in my media NAS if I choose. I simply grabbed the least expensive B450 I felt would be okay for a 3600X, more or less as a test bed to be sure the RAM and GPU from the 5900X build weren't the problem. As it turns out, the RAM appears to be. And should I flip it, I suppose a 3600X with a GTX1650 OC and 16GB RAM should be worth about $700-$900.

 

  

27 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

I'll be honest I've built a lot of machine and I can't remember ever looking at a QVL list. Maybe I've just been lucky as I've never had this many problems as you seem to be going through across various threads now.

 

I actually somehow got you mistaken with Guest 5150, Spark. My bad. For some weird reason I was thinking you had replied to this thread, maybe it was another one. But seeing as I've noticed the lists seem to vary between various Ryzens (Matisse / Vermeer, etc.) I think it will be subjective. I think some boards will be more picky than others as well.

 

Also, I happen to have two sets of this Crucial 3200 kit and the MSI B450M Bazooka the older set was in with a 1700 has been somewhat neurotic as well. I also figured out that the two sticks in the other 1700 rig are showing different speeds, a sign of impending failure if I'm not mistaken.

 

At any rate, turns out both kits appear to be dual-rank, which if I'm reading things right, some boards don't do well with. It apparently is made in single rank and dual rank, the problem is you don't really know which one you're going to get when you buy it -- another reason I might not

Edited August 12, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Guest]

2 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

 

@Guest 5150I, for one, am starting to believe that building a machine these days is like a jigsaw puzzle in that if you don't have the correct three pieces made to fit each other at this junction or that junction, it's never going to work right -- if it works at all. I've had two kits of this 3200 Ballistix now, and both machines were neurotic to say the least. It just never occurred to me to check QVL lists, because until now, I never knew that was a thing. Turns out they weren't validated for the MSI B450M that was in my 1700 rig, either.

And that's where some study comes in to play.

 

It's known that the 1700 has a max memory support of 2667mhz. Everything past this speed is an overclock. So results vary.

The 2700 (gen 2) has a max memory support of 2933mhz. Past this = OC = Results vary.

3700 and 5700 series chips support up to 3200mhz. Past this is an overclock = results vary. 

 

Motherboard studies helps too. Obviously a 75$ motherboard will not produce the same memory overclocks as 300$ boards That's generally straight forward as long as you know that tidbit. 

 

So yes, in a way piecing a system together does take some research, time and effort. Then expectations to follow must be within the knowledge that budget boards and memory aren't going to be breaking records, again you're matching hardware for it to work for you, with as little fuss and muss as possible.

[An0maly_76]

The biggest issue, I think, is that if anyone looks up compatibility, they're looking for the from the RAM manufacturer, NOT the board manufacturer. Crucial says all day long this older kit I have two of is compatible, and I have had nothing but issues with it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

The biggest issue, I think, is that if anyone looks up compatibility, they're looking for the from the RAM manufacturer, NOT the board manufacturer. Crucial says all day long this older kit I have two of is compatible, and I have had nothing but issues with it.

Ahh, but yet the plot thickens.

 

If the QVL is a good one, it will list the configuration it was tested at.

Then you have to rely that the QVL is accurate and up to date because of bios releases.

Many bios releases are strictly for memory compatibility. 

 

But what does compatible mean? 

Well it's ddr4 and it fits into the ddr4 slot. 

It will run and post with system defaults.

 

Manufacturers don't want you to enable XMP and then RMA because it doesn't post up first shot. And why you get the warning messages when you select enable XMP, or enable any OC selections in the bios. 

 

So in theory, ALL ddr4 Ram is compatible with ALL ddr4 motherboards, Without XMP (DOCP).

 

[An0maly_76]

8 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Ahh, but yet the plot thickens.

Many bios releases are strictly for memory compatibility. 

But what does compatible mean? 

Well it's ddr4 and it fits into the ddr4 slot. 

It will run and post with system defaults.

 

I think you missed a word there -- CONSISTENTLY.  As in it will run and POST consistently. Which the 3200 Crucial I've been running in my 5900X would not.

 

The GPU has tested fine in another machine, whereas one of these DIMMs will not boot, no way, no how, and the other has made the build act stupid from day one. Now it's experiencing random cutout of audio or sometimes audio / video. But only when gaming, not during MP4 playback. It all points to RAM in my book. And I haven't found those particular sticks on a QVL list yet.

 

I asked someone about the SKU of the older kit I have two sets of. They said the last time they ordered that for a build was for an Intel Coffee Lake or something of the sort. Now, I know it shouldn't matter, but could it be that certain kits are optimized for AMD, certain kits are optimized for Intel, and crossing these up will cause problems?

Edited August 12, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I think you missed a word there -- CONSISTENTLY.  As in it will run and POST consistently. Which the 3200 Crucial I've been running in my 5900X would not.

 

The GPU has tested fine in another machine, whereas one of these DIMMs will not boot, no way, no how, and the other has made the build act stupid from day one. Now it's experiencing random cutout of audio or sometimes audio / video. But only when gaming, not during MP4 playback. It all points to RAM in my book. And I haven't found those particular sticks on a QVL list yet.

 

I asked someone about the SKU of the older kit I have two sets of. They said the last time they ordered that for a build was for an Intel Coffee Lake or something of the sort. Now, I know it shouldn't matter, but could it be that certain kits are optimized for AMD, certain kits are optimized for Intel, and crossing these up will cause problems?

Yes they do "Optimize" kits for AMD because XMP is actually an Intel rated spec. Not AMD. AMD will use the acronym DOCP which means "Direct Overclocking Profile" 

 

Which as I will repeat, manufacturers don't actually want you to enable XMP. That's why the option is never available in OEM systems. 

 

Yes consistency can be an issue. But if the ram tests good in a different system, then you have to question the cpu or motherboard. I'd start with the cpu myself for that testing.

[An0maly_76]

17 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Yes they do "Optimize" kits for AMD because XMP is actually an Intel rated spec. Not AMD. AMD will use the acronym DOCP which means "Direct Overclocking Profile" 

 

Which as I will repeat, manufacturers don't actually want you to enable XMP. That's why the option is never available in OEM systems. 

 

Yes consistency can be an issue. But if the ram tests good in a different system, then you have to question the cpu or motherboard. I'd start with the cpu myself for that testing.

I might have confused you. The RAM in the 5900X tested good in THAT system, and swapping the GPU and RAM of the same SKU from another machine didn't change anything, prompting an RMA. So anticipating a lengthy RMA, I put together an ASRock B450M / 3600X setup with the same RTX3060ti for the purposes of testing the RAM and GPU. It would also serve as a test bed just in case the board wasn't the issue.

 

While I haven't tested the DIMMs in the 3600X / ASRock B450M, this setup displayed an hourglass constantly with one of those DIMMs. It failed to POST with the other, solo or tandem, regardless of order. The one it will POST with is starting to show cutout of either audio only or both audio and video, but only when gaming -- not on MP4 playback. It kind of points to the RAM in my eyes, since the board returned a few days ago "Could not duplicate issue". Seems to me the GPU would be acting stupid regardless of the task.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I might have confused you. The RAM in the 5900X tested good in THAT system, and swapping the GPU and RAM of the same SKU from another machine didn't change anything, prompting an RMA. So anticipating a lengthy RMA, I put together an ASRock B450M / 3600X setup with the same RTX3060ti for the purposes of testing the RAM and GPU. It would also serve as a test bed just in case the board wasn't the issue.

 

While I haven't tested the DIMMs in the 3600X / ASRock B450M, this setup displayed an hourglass constantly with one of those DIMMs. It failed to POST with the other, solo or tandem, regardless of order. The one it will POST with is starting to show cutout of either audio only or both audio and video, but only when gaming -- not on MP4 playback. It kind of points to the RAM in my eyes, since the board returned a few days ago "Could not duplicate issue". Seems to me the GPU would be acting stupid regardless of the task.

OK, that does clarify things better.

 

So the AsRock board, how many bios revisions have you tried with it? Maybe there's a particular one that works better than the rest. This wouldn't be anything new, back in the day overclockers would share notes to determine the best bios revision. And even better where able to modify the bios's, something that doesn't happen anymore encrypted and all. 

 

And thinking about AsRock, I'm not a fan of their motherboards. I can't imagine their quality on the low end boards is any better now than it was 12 years ago. 

 

My Asus B450M-A did fine with memory overclocking on 2nd gen. Even with SK Hynix, could run CL13, but I think closer to 2933mhz vs 3200mhz. Had really decent latency despite the lower speed. That was with a 2700X. The 3000mhz memory divider is not something I found Ryzen system to like very much. 

[An0maly_76]

No BIOS revisions yet. This dubious kit seems like it might be a bit dated. I ordered it once before in 2020, and I can't find it on any QVL list anywhere. I'm wondering if part of it is that that particular kit is optimized for Intel's XMP, which might explain why it has issues on AMD's DOCP. I went back and checked, the two older DIMMs in my 1700 rig's MSI B450M are registering at different speeds somehow, which suggests instability or defect. And if these were meant for Intel boards, that might explain it.

[An0maly_76]

So, this kit performs flawlessly in the ASRock B450M-HDV with the 3600X, and it appears the DIMMs it replaced, which were originally installed in the 5900X, are now dead entirely. Tried without DOCP, worked well. Enabled DOCP and is working great so far. The audio and video cutout is gone, which means the RTX3060ti from the 5900X build has a clean bill of health. Hopefully this bodes well for the alternate QVL'd RAM I got for the Asus board for when that build goes back together. To those who say QVL doesn't matter, I'm seeing some very compelling evidence to the contrary.