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[Xa3phod]

Budget (including currency): USD

Country: USA

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Planetside 2, Star Wars Battlegrounds, Star Citizen. Word processing, spreadsheets, possibly video editing.

Other details: Currently using an RTX 2070.

 

So here is the deal. I have a Ryzen 3900x on an Asrock 570 Taichi Motherboard, an RTX 2070 and 16 gigs of good ram. I also have a 6700K with 16 gigs of good ram. I did some benchmarks, and while the Ryzen 3900x is faster, in single thread its only a few % faster. I have the 6700K stable at 4.5Ghz. So, I had an idea. Why not sell the 3900x, the Mobo, and the ram. I also have a R9 Fury X. I would sell it all, use the 6700K and with the cash I make, get a RTX3080Ti. I figure a 6700K and a RTX3080Ti is faster in gaming than a 3900x with a RTX2070. Or, I would wait for the 4000 series Nvidia or get an AMD, whichever makes more sense, but I wouldn't spent $800 on a video card, but with the money I get from the sales, its even.

So:

Ryzen 3900X + RTX 2070

or

I7-6700K + RTX 3080Ti.

 

Or, do I keep the motherboard, sell the 3900x, keep the Taichi Mobo and ram, Sell the 6700K and the mobo its on and the ram, the 2070 and the R9 fury X, get a 5600X and the RTX 3080Ti? (5600X is faster than the 3900x in gaming and I am not doing much editing now).

 

Thanks for the help.

 

 

[jaslion]

Don't. 8threads is next on the cutting block for gaming. The only reason it's still lasting is due to last gen consoles still being relevant for a bit longer. Once those goes you'll see the core count requirement spike.

 

Just sell the other computer if you want a better gpu and get whatever you want. I'd wait for the 4000 series tho.

 

You mix and match selling will only end up with a system that will temporarily be better but once the ps4 and xbox one exit the stage that system will crash and burn.

 

 

Also don't bother upgrading from a 3900x I doubt you'd see a difference what so ever. Unless you have a 240hz screen (not that any of the games you are playing can even get such high fps their engines don't handle it).

[Xa3phod]

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Don't. 8threads is next on the cutting block for gaming. The only reason it's still lasting is due to last gen consoles still being relevant for a bit longer. Once those goes you'll see the core count requirement spike.

 

Just sell the other computer if you want a better gpu and get whatever you want. I'd wait for the 4000 series tho.

 

You mix and match selling will only end up with a system that will temporarily be better but once the ps4 and xbox one exit the stage that system will crash and burn.

 

 

Also don't bother upgrading from a 3900x I doubt you'd see a difference what so ever. Unless you have a 240hz screen (not that any of the games you are playing can even get such high fps their engines don't handle it).

Sell which other? The 6700K?

[jaslion]

2 minutes ago, Xa3phod said:

Sell which other? The 6700K?

The 6700k system yes.

[Alex Atkin UK]

32 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Don't. 8threads is next on the cutting block for gaming. The only reason it's still lasting is due to last gen consoles still being relevant for a bit longer. Once those goes you'll see the core count requirement spike.

Indeed, a lot of people talk about 8 threads like its going to still be fine for some time, but I have my doubts.

People forget that on PC we have CPU tasks to do stuff that the consoles have hardware offloading for (eg 3D audio and data decompression) so its hard to say how those requirements will scale.

[jaslion]

14 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Indeed, a lot of people talk about 8 threads like its going to still be fine for some time, but I have my doubts.

People forget that on PC we have CPU tasks to do stuff that the consoles have hardware offloading for (eg 3D audio and data decompression) so its hard to say how those requirements will scale.

That and consoles have cores reserved for os and other resources. The only reason 8 threads are hanging on is because the ps4 and xbox one are hanging around. But in the most recent AAA games we already can see that they are maxing or near maxing out when just gaming. Add in anything extra and boom you are cpu limited and start enjoying stuttering and dips.

[cmndr]

Adding on to the "last gen of consoles are relevant" bit. In terms of MT performance, a dual core CPU (5 year old i3) is generally more performant than the 8 core jaguar CPU in the older consoles. The current gen of consoles is around 5x as performant.

 

I'm usually the guy saying "CPUs don't matter that much" but in this case I'll push back slightly for a few reasons.

1. New CPU launches coming soon (tm)
2. New GPU launches coming soon (tm).

There might be validity to selling the best of your parts and hunkering down on the older stuff, enjoying older titles for a while and then buying a whole new system in the coming months. Think 13100k + 4060Ti or similar. Do note that there are some ways where this could go wrong (shortages).

[Xa3phod]

30 minutes ago, cmndr said:

Adding on to the "last gen of consoles are relevant" bit. In terms of MT performance, a dual core CPU (5 year old i3) is generally more performant than the 8 core jaguar CPU in the older consoles. The current gen of consoles is around 5x as performant.

 

I'm usually the guy saying "CPUs don't matter that much" but in this case I'll push back slightly for a few reasons.

1. New CPU launches coming soon (tm)
2. New GPU launches coming soon (tm).

There might be validity to selling the best of your parts and hunkering down on the older stuff, enjoying older titles for a while and then buying a whole new system in the coming months. Think 13100k + 4060Ti or similar. Do note that there are some ways where this could go wrong (shortages).

The 6700K plays every game I play on Ultra. Just 10-15fps less. So, Its running at 110fps instead of 130. I am leaning towards selling the Ryzen and mobo/ram and the R9 fury x, wait and get the 4000 series nvidia, sell the 2070 and just break even. The r9 isn't going to become more pricey. Might as well get some value out of it.

[Guest]

You'd be better off selling Both the 3900X and the 6700K and get a 5600X (or bigger) which is AT LEAST 20% faster than both processors you have now. 

 

The bottle neck from a 6700K running a 3080ti would be horrible and we'd have to take your club membership from you and kick you from the forums.

 

Good Day!

 

 

 

[Harpoon]

Is this a good build for doing architecture related things or what changes should I make or should I go wit a intel i7 11700k instead

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, Xa3phod said:

The 6700K plays every game I play on Ultra. Just 10-15fps less. So, Its running at 110fps instead of 130. I am leaning towards selling the Ryzen and mobo/ram and the R9 fury x, wait and get the 4000 series nvidia, sell the 2070 and just break even. The r9 isn't going to become more pricey. Might as well get some value out of it.

At some level, assuming the boards are equal in value, the difference between a 6700k on ebay ($120) and a 3900x ($300) is around $180.

 

The question for any proposition is "is the gap between the two worth $180, both now and into the immediate future?"

 

The 3900x is a lot more "future proof" (could mean riding out 1-3 further gens of CPUs) than the 6700k but being "now proof" is often good enough.

 

1 hour ago, Guest 5150 said:

You'd be better off selling Both the 3900X and the 6700K and get a 5600X (or bigger) which is AT LEAST 20% faster than both processors you have now.

This depends on the use case. TPU says for games the 5600x is around 12% faster at 1080p with a 3080. It's around 25% faster than a 6700. If you similate GPU bottlenecking by looking at 1440p figures then it's around a 9% difference and a 18% difference respectively. The cases where the gap is highest appears to be where you're in the 100+ FPS range already which doesn't matter THAT much (also metro exodus for some reason... I'm guessing it's dual CCD issues and process lasso could fix that).
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-5600/15.html

Also as a rule of thumb most of those reviews are done on CLEAN test benches with 0 bloatware and no background apps (not realistic). MOAR COARS helps in the real world (though you probably don't need 12 at this point).

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, cmndr said:

At some level, assuming the boards are equal in value, the difference between a 6700k on ebay ($120) and a 3900x ($300) is around $180.

 

The question for any proposition is "is the gap between the two worth $180, both now and into the immediate future?"

 

The 3900x is a lot more "future proof" (could mean riding out 1-3 further gens of CPUs) than the 6700k but being "now proof" is often good enough.

 

This depends on the use case. TPU says for games the 5600x is around 12% faster at 1080p with a 3080. It's around 25% faster than a 6700. If you similate GPU bottlenecking by looking at 1440p figures then it's around a 9% difference and a 18% difference respectively. The cases where the gap is highest appears to be where you're in the 100+ FPS range already which doesn't matter THAT much (also metro exodus for some reason... I'm guessing it's dual CCD issues and process lasso could fix that).
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-5600/15.html

Also as a rule of thumb most of those reviews are done on CLEAN test benches with 0 bloatware and no background apps (not realistic). MOAR COARS helps in the real world (though you probably don't need 12 at this point).

Also done on earlier bios revisions and so forth. The point is to move forward not backwards. A 6700K cant shake a stick at a 3900x and can't shake an entire tree at a 12400F either.

 

There's no point in a bigger grapics card like a 3080ti unless you're going 4K and then you probably want the IPC to do so.

 

My opinion there. 

[cmndr]

For most, but not all titles, assuming you don't have a bad CPU (Bulldozer, dual core i3, etc.) changes to the videocard will matter FAR more than changes to the CPU.

Going from something like a 6700k to an 11700k is about a 3x increase in raw CPU power. You don't get 3x the FPS, you generally get something like +10-30% FPS, depending on the title.

3Xing the GPU gets you almost 3x the performance.

The winning formula really is "not bad" CPU and "good" GPU. The only real caveat is that if you do OTHER stuff and/or multitask then you'll want a few more cores.

Anecdotally - OCed 3570k to an OCed 1700 in THEORY was a performance hit. In practice, no more lag spikes. I don't like closing things. I felt the difference. Upgrading from a 970 to 2080 was a MUCH bigger FPS uplift though (at 1440p). I felt almost 0 difference going from a 1700 to a 3900x outside of data analysis work and coding. 0 perceptible difference in games.

[Xa3phod]

40 minutes ago, cmndr said:

At some level, assuming the boards are equal in value, the difference between a 6700k on ebay ($120) and a 3900x ($300) is around $180.

 

The question for any proposition is "is the gap between the two worth $180, both now and into the immediate future?"

 

The 3900x is a lot more "future proof" (could mean riding out 1-3 further gens of CPUs) than the 6700k but being "now proof" is often good enough.

 

This depends on the use case. TPU says for games the 5600x is around 12% faster at 1080p with a 3080. It's around 25% faster than a 6700. If you similate GPU bottlenecking by looking at 1440p figures then it's around a 9% difference and a 18% difference respectively. The cases where the gap is highest appears to be where you're in the 100+ FPS range already which doesn't matter THAT much (also metro exodus for some reason... I'm guessing it's dual CCD issues and process lasso could fix that).
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-5600/15.html

Also as a rule of thumb most of those reviews are done on CLEAN test benches with 0 bloatware and no background apps (not realistic). MOAR COARS helps in the real world (though you probably don't need 12 at this point).

So you think its worth keeping the 3900 and eating the $180 and just sell the 6700 system?

[Xa3phod]

2 minutes ago, cmndr said:

For most, but not all titles, assuming you don't have a bad CPU (Bulldozer, dual core i3, etc.) changes to the videocard will matter FAR more than changes to the CPU.

Going from something like a 6700k to an 11700k is about a 3x increase in raw CPU power. You don't get 3x the FPS, you generally get something like +10-30% FPS, depending on the title.

3Xing the GPU gets you almost 3x the performance.

The winning formula really is "not bad" CPU and "good" GPU. The only real caveat is that if you do OTHER stuff and/or multitask then you'll want a few more cores.

Anecdotally - OCed 3570k to an OCed 1700 in THEORY was a performance hit. In practice, no more lag spikes. I don't like closing things. I felt the difference. Upgrading from a 970 to 2080 was a MUCH bigger FPS uplift though (at 1440p). I felt almost 0 difference going from a 1700 to a 3900x outside of data analysis work and coding. 0 perceptible difference in games.

I thought the 1700 was a dog. I have one and it was much slower than my 6700K in gaming across the board.

[cmndr]

Just now, Xa3phod said:

So you think its worth keeping the 3900 and eating the $180 and just sell the 6700 system?

This depends on your use case.

What applications do you currently run (check benchmarks then dock off a bit because multitasking and background apps)? What do you expect to run? What time frame is your next upgrade? How much do you use your computer? Do you have other places where the money would be better spent?

 

If you plan on upgrading in the near to mid future it could go either way. Presumably if you hang onto the 3900x you'd want to use it for a somewhat longer timespan vs the 6700.

This is a case of tradeoffs. I would lean towards keeping the 3900x but I'm also in a personal spot where if I wanted to I could buy a 12900k tomorrow and then build a 13900k system AND a Zen 4 system in a few months and it'd be a rounding error on my bank account (and PC stuff is my main hobby). If you have debts or other obligations then...

[cmndr]

3 minutes ago, Xa3phod said:

I thought the 1700 was a dog. I have one and it was much slower than my 6700K in gaming across the board.

I don't like closing things.

I also had a 3570k at the time which is something like 15% lower on IPC and doesn't have HT so something like 30% lower MT performance vs the 6700k.

In terms of "this feels the same" frame rate wise I had a GTX 970 that mainly got used at 3440 x 1440 or 2560 x 1440. Of course the GPU was going to be the big limiter.

 

I'm also not that much of a gamer. I kinda stopped caring about games and turned careerism into my big game.

[Xa3phod]

4 minutes ago, cmndr said:

This depends on your use case.

What applications do you currently run (check benchmarks then dock off a bit because multitasking and background apps)? What do you expect to run? What time frame is your next upgrade? How much do you use your computer? Do you have other places where the money would be better spent?

 

If you plan on upgrading in the near to mid future it could go either way. Presumably if you hang onto the 3900x you'd want to use it for a somewhat longer timespan vs the 6700.

This is a case of tradeoffs. I would lean towards keeping the 3900x but I'm also in a personal spot where if I wanted to I could buy a 12900k tomorrow and then build a 13900k system AND a Zen 4 system in a few months and it'd be a rounding error on my bank account (and PC stuff is my main hobby). If you have debts or other obligations then...

Mostly play Planetside 2, some battleground 2, some other games. Basic business tasks. I was going to get into video editing, but it hasn't panned out as of yet, so I feel dumb holding onto this 24 thread cpu when I can get a better GPU and probably get more fps with the 6700K than with the 3900x and a 2070.

[Xa3phod]

I'm on the 6700K right now with the 2070 and it feels fine in games. Getting over 100fps on planetside 2 with a second monitor with youtube playing.

[cmndr]

If your use case is "10 year old games" pretty much anything "not bad" will do. 5 year old games it can be a bit more questionable but...

You can allocate the $180ish towards future upgrades later on so you wouldn't necessarily miss out on a ton.

If you're super conflicted about it, flip a coin. As long as your decision is "not bad" it's not the end of the world.

 

[Xa3phod]

Well, Just recorded a few minutes of heavy fighting in Planetside 2 on Ultra settings. GPU usage was averaging around 64%. CPU usage was average in the 60s and spiked in the mid 80s. It did spike to 95% for a moment. I guess I will reinstall the 2070 into the 3900x and do the same thing and see the usage.

[Xa3phod]

I reinstalled the 2070 in my 3900x and the different is much bigger than I remembered. The CPU usage never went over 52% the whole time. Think I will sell the 6700K system. Once the 4000 series comes out I will sell my 2070 (for less than I wish), but its worth it.

Thanks for the help.

[Xa3phod]

Already listed the 6700K and R9 Fury X on Ebay. I will list the mobo after those are sold. If anyone wants those components, go bid.

Thanks for the advice