5600X Upgrade problems

[gabe50200]

Hello, About 4 years ago I built a mid-tier couch gaming rig with the intention to upgrade when new parts appeared, and then COVID:

MSI B450 Tomahawk Max

AMD 2600X

16 gig G-Skill FlareX Ram 3200

Nvidia GTX 1070ti

Gigabyte P650B power supply

WD Blue 1TB Sata SSD Boot Drive

WD Black 2TB HDD Game Drive

Running into a 50 inch Samsung Plasma TV (still looks pretty good, even if only 1080p) via HDMI for couch gaming.

Windows 10, fully updated.

 

While a couple of gens behind now, it has served me well for what I play (Fallout 3, NV & 4, Skyrim & Enderal, Dragon Age series, Dragon's Dogma, etc.)

 

Recently, I saw the 5600X drop below $200 USD for the first time ($198.00) on Newegg (yeah, I know, but the price was right), so I picked one up.

Updated the bios to 7C02v3B, which seemed to be the most stable current version according to what I read. Booted into bios without issue, booted into Windows fine and ran with 2600X.

Tore in and installed the 5600X, and this is where things get weird.

Booted to new CPU/Bios reset screen. When booting into bios, bios screen is scrunched into left side of display, more like 9X9 vs 16X9, and bios is a strange combination of English, Japanese(Chinese?) and Spanish. If I don't get out within about 30 seconds, bios will freeze.

When I did get out, then I would see the MSI Boot Screen, then Windows would start to load, and then BSOD, (said something like "unreadable boot device", but since I can't get into Windows, I can't get log.) then restart, then MSI Boot Screen, then Windows starting, then BSOD, then repeat again, then into recovery.

Ran "Fix Boot", it did it's thing, then "unable to fix issue". Then refused to even see Boot drive.

Removed 5600X and replaced 2600X. Jumped and reset bios. Boot into Bios fine (bios displayed properly), and booted into Windows without issue. Hmm....??? Replaced 5600X and still booted into distorted bios and refused to boot into Windows. Tried booting into Live Linux flash drive I had from old laptop (Lubuntu 16.04 64bit) and that worked, and appears to be stable. It's what I'm typing this in right now.

So, now to questions:

Is it likely the CPU? Should I just give up and RMA?

Is it a corrupt Bios? It appeared to flash fine, and appears to display and function properly with 2600X.

As bios flashing is always a risk, I would hate to have it fail and brick the board by reflashing.

If I am going to reflash, should I reinstall the 2600x to do so?

Would a fresh install of Windows solve anything? I was planning on refreshing anyway, but the weird looking bios suggests there might be more going on.

Is there something else I'm not thinking of?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

 

[Mister Woof]

I'd do the reflash with the old chip for sure. Might want to reinstall Windows too if you're having problems. 

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

Be sure to clear CMOS after installing the 5600X.

[gabe50200]

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

Update: Reinstalled 2600X. Still booted into bios & Windows without issue. ReFlashed Bios 7C02v3B. Flashed fine, much faster than last time. Took over 10 minutes previous flash, this time less than 5 minutes. Again, booted into bios, and then windows without issue.

Re-re-reinstalled 5600X. Jumped Bios and reset. Removed CMOS Battery and waited 10 minutes, then replaced. Booted into bios, still distorted, though a little less so, like 12x9 now. Still locked up after about 30 seconds, completely unresponsive, had to force shutdown with power button. Rebooted into bios and closed bios with defaults. Tried to boot into Windows, failed and returned to bios screen. At least no BSOD.

 

Additional info that might be useful. When I originally set up the system several years ago, the bios defaulted to CSM / UEFI + Legacy mode. I didn't notice at the time. When I did, I tried to switch to UEFI mode, and the system refused to boot. I had to reset the bios, and switch it back to CSM / Legacy. Then it works fine. I'm guessing I will have to reformat & reinstall Windows in UEFI mode to get it to boot. Also, cannot set up secure boot in CSM / Legacy mode, so no Win 11. Not sure if I'm going there anyway, but maybe eventually.

 

Is it worth trying a different bios revision? From what I've read, everything after 7C02v3B is buggy.

Or might it be the CSM issue above? Though I'm not sure why that would distort and lock up the bios only when the 5600X is installed. Might there be a motherboard flaw that only appears with a 5000 series CPU?

 

Any other thoughts?

[Mister Woof]

53 minutes ago, gabe50200 said:

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

Update: Reinstalled 2600X. Still booted into bios & Windows without issue. ReFlashed Bios 7C02v3B. Flashed fine, much faster than last time. Took over 10 minutes previous flash, this time less than 5 minutes. Again, booted into bios, and then windows without issue.

Re-re-reinstalled 5600X. Jumped Bios and reset. Removed CMOS Battery and waited 10 minutes, then replaced. Booted into bios, still distorted, though a little less so, like 12x9 now. Still locked up after about 30 seconds, completely unresponsive, had to force shutdown with power button. Rebooted into bios and closed bios with defaults. Tried to boot into Windows, failed and returned to bios screen. At least no BSOD.

 

Additional info that might be useful. When I originally set up the system several years ago, the bios defaulted to CSM / UEFI + Legacy mode. I didn't notice at the time. When I did, I tried to switch to UEFI mode, and the system refused to boot. I had to reset the bios, and switch it back to CSM / Legacy. Then it works fine. I'm guessing I will have to reformat & reinstall Windows in UEFI mode to get it to boot. Also, cannot set up secure boot in CSM / Legacy mode, so no Win 11. Not sure if I'm going there anyway, but maybe eventually.

 

Is it worth trying a different bios revision? From what I've read, everything after 7C02v3B is buggy.

Or might it be the CSM issue above? Though I'm not sure why that would distort and lock up the bios only when the 5600X is installed. Might there be a motherboard flaw that only appears with a 5000 series CPU?

 

Any other thoughts?

I'd try one of the older versions if you can revert. UEFI should be fine as that's what windows 10 will use. If you installed windows with CSM and it's not booting right, that could be the issue. I would revert to an older BIOS, reinstall windows from booting a USB stick with UEFI enabled, and go from there

[gabe50200]

3 hours ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

I'd try one of the older versions if you can revert. UEFI should be fine as that's what windows 10 will use. If you installed windows with CSM and it's not booting right, that could be the issue. I would revert to an older BIOS, reinstall windows from booting a USB stick with UEFI enabled, and go from there

Thanks for staying with me.

 

I reflashed to 7C02v3A, as far as I can tell, that may be the first Bios for this board that supports 5000 series CPUs, but I could be wrong about that. Flash went fine booted okay, with 2600X. 

Then, the plot thickens. I was getting ready to do a clean install of Win 10 in UEFI mode. If I switch to UEFI mode, the system will not boot, even with a brand new NVME M.2 drive as the only storage, and a Windows installer flash drive. Just a black screen. I wondered if it was a video card issue, since the LEDs on the board appeared to be doing something, so I switched to a 660ti I had, and at least I get a message (video card does not support GOP, switch to CSM mode). I'm guessing the 1070ti is also having a similar issue, but is not showing message screen. 

As far as I can tell, the 1070ti should support GOP. I bought it used, so I wonder if a previous owner flashed a custom bios, or if it got corrupted somehow? I've never flashed a video bios, so I'll have to look that one up. But that would explain why the Bios' keep defaulting to CSM mode. I wonder if it also might explain my 5600X issues? Not sure why it was never a problem with the 2600X?

So anyway, I guess the next step is to figure out how to reflash my 1070ti, and hope I don't brick it in the process. 

Damn, this was supposed to be a quick and easy upgrade. Not my day.

[gabe50200]

Update #3: ReFlashed video bios on 1070ti. Seemed to work, and card still functions. According to NVFlash, it already had same bios as the one I got off Tech PowerUp. 

No Change, still reboots to black screen (no video output) after switching to UEFI mode. Still does not show warning message. 

I'm guessing either there is something wrong with the 1070ti that prevents it from working in UEFI mode, or there is something wrong with the MSI Tomahawk Max, that is preventing it from reading the GOP info in the video bios. Hmm...? One of those might also be causing the 5600X issues maybe? Or it could be completely unrelated and just more noise.

I'm going to try one more run with the 5600X and the downgraded motherboard bios, after installing a fresh Win 10 in CSM mode (no choice). If that doesn't work, I may be stuck with a 2600X with this setup. I may have to spring for a new MB to use the 5600X. Hate to do that, and find out it was the CPU all along.

[gabe50200]

Had to step away for a while.

Final Update: No change with 5600X and downgraded motherboard bios. Still buggy bios display. Still unable to make any advanced bios adjustments. Out of desperation upgraded to 7C02v3E, most current version (5/2022). Bad move, won't work with either 2600X or 5600X. Not able to access M-Flash to re-downgrade, and Flashback (bios flash button on motherboard) would not work. Most likely does not allow downgrading bios. Found a bios flashing utility on MSI forum. Ran it and downgraded to 7C02v39, the actual first bios to support 5000 series on B450 Tomahawk Max. Even worse, no access to bios function at all with 5600X.

There is definitely something wrong with some component in my rig, most likely the 5600X, the motherboard, or the 1070ti. I tried 4 different bios versions, with none working correctly. Ended up reflashing to 7C02vB. I can make some minor adjustments in the bios, as long as I stay in basic mode (switching to advance mode locks up bios within seconds), and make one change at a time, then save and reboot. Strangely, it now appears to be in UEFI mode, not CSM, but since I can't get into the advanced menu, I can't check all the settings. I'll try Ryzen Master to check if it's in Precision Boost mode. At least I have XMP on now, so the memory is at 3200 and not 2100. I'm going to try to run it with the 5600X and see how it goes. If I run into issues, I'll go back to the 2600X. 

Short of purchasing a new motherboard and GPU, and/or taking the rig into a shop, I really can't figure out what the issue is.

[Columbo]

Try flashing the CMOS on your board regardless of which bios you have installed. I suggest the latest bios and then use a jumper to clear your CMOS and restart your computer. I realize you can revert to stock settings in your bios but that is not the same as using the jumper to clear the bios back to  complete stock. Try that. The next step would be running with only one ram stick but I don't think your memory sticks are the problem. 

 

One other suggestion is to make sure you are using the correct bios. I am talking about the specific motherboard version. You may have installed a bios for a different motherboard. 

[Mister Woof]

10 minutes ago, Columbo said:

Try flashing the CMOS on your board regardless of which bios you have installed. I suggest the latest bios and then use a jumper to flash the bios back to completely stock settings. I realize you can revert to stock settings in your bios but that is not the same as using the jumper to flash the bios back to complete stock. Try that. The next step would be running with only one ram stick but I don't think your memory sticks are the problem. 

 

One other suggestion is to make sure you are using the correct bios. I am talking about the specific motherboard version. You may have installed a bios for a different motherboard. 

To clarify I think he means "clear" CMOS since flashing generally is associated with updating the actual BIOS, not the settings

[gabe50200]

Thanks again for the assistance. This whole situation has had me pulling my hair out. My computer knowledge is wide, but not very deep. As an old IT friend used to say, I know just enough to be dangerous.

I have tried resetting all bios' both by jumper and by removing the CMOS battery. This has not changed the behavior at all.

All motherboard bios versions I have used have come directly from the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max support page on the MSI website, so unless MSI is posting the wrong bios on their support page, I'm pretty sure they are the correct versions. I even re-downloaded and reinstalled a few to make sure I got clean copies. Only the 1070ti video bios (p.s.: it's an EVGA 1070ti SC Black, doesn't look like I mentioned that earlier) was obtained from a non-manufacturer site, Tech Power-Up.

All bios versions I have tried worked flawlessly with the 2600X, with the exception of the most recent version, 7C02v3E. This was completely unusable with the 2600X, only a quarter of the screen displayed, and neither mouse nor keyboard would register. Using this bios forced me to use a USB flashing utility, not Flashback or M-Flash, to roll back the bios. According to the MSI support page, this version has forced Secure Boot, which requires UEFI mode. This was an issue earlier, and may have something with the 2600X incompatibility. It may also be why all bios versions now register being in UEFI mode now, when all refused to do so earlier.

It acts like there is a corrupt or incorrect video driver. Since the bios is pre-OS, are there basic video drivers built in to bios software? If so, is it possible it is misreading the video card version and running an incorrect driver? If so, why would this primarily be an issue only with the 5600X?

As I am typing this, I'm wondering if it may be an HDMI issue? I have only been using HDMI out through this ordeal. I don't have any display port monitors, but I do have an old DVI monitor. I'll give that a try.

[gabe50200]

Bingo, that did it. Seems to have been an HDMI thing all along. Bios displays and interacts perfectly with the 5600X over DVI.

Also, bios is in fact in UEFI mode, and now recognizes the GOP on the 1070ti, I have been able to turn on the TPM module, and Secure Boot. Something I was never able to do before. It should be Win 11 ready now. Go figure. I'll have to remember to pull out the DVI monitor any time I need to adjust the bios.