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Motherboard for Client

mtsprite
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So here my issue. i have a client that has a very unique use case and am having trouble finding a motherboard for him. The machine he's building will have 2 3090 gpus in it (Not NVLinked). He is using the first one for gaming and streaming and the other for data science. He wants to go with intel 12th gen for ddr5 support but he would like to have a motherboard that lets him run the first card at 16x speeds and the second at 8x speeds. so far i have not been able to find a board that is able to do this and so i have come to crowdsource a solution. There will be a Gen 4 NVME in this build as well so i know that also plays into the pcie lane limit. Thanks.

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Why run the second at only 8x? Why not get a server platform and run both at 16x? Pretty sure dual 4.0 x16 is a thing but not sure

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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Intel's consumer 12th gen doesn't support this, the CPUs do not have enough PCIe lanes. They max out at 20 PCIe lanes, so you can only have x16+x4 or 2x x8+x4, you cannot do 2x x16, you'd need to move to a different platform for that, though don't know if any that would support it also support DDR5, so it might be something you have to wait to be able to do on newer platforms.

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1 minute ago, Mel0nMan said:

Why run the second at only 8x? Why not get a server platform and run both at 16x? Pretty sure dual 4.0 x16 is a thing but not sure

if we can run both at x16 that would be great! The reason i stated 8x was that a lot of the boards ive looked at arnt even wired for dual 16x so i figured finding one that was both 16x and 8x would be fine since once everything is in the cards vram it dosent do much talking over pcie so it only slows it down at the beginning. 

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1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Intel's consumer 12th gen doesn't support this, the CPUs do not have enough PCIe lanes. They max out at 20 PCIe lanes, so you can only have x16+x4 or 2x x8+x4, you cannot do 2x x16, you'd need to move to a different platform for that.

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. 2 questions though.

 

1. What about the lanes provided by the PCH? those are gonna be slower but once the data science model is in vram it wont be doing much communication over pcie. 

 

2. What kind of platform would we have to move to for this to be able to be done. He is open to amd if there is a board that can get this done on that side. at this point i just need a direction.

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14 minutes ago, mtsprite said:

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. 2 questions though.

 

1. What about the lanes provided by the PCH? those are gonna be slower but once the data science model is in vram it wont be doing much communication over pcie. 

 

2. What kind of platform would we have to move to for this to be able to be done. He is open to amd if there is a board that can get this done on that side. at this point i just need a direction.

1. Theoretically, yes. However, GPUs are almost exclusively used in lanes provided by the CPU, and typically PCH lanes will be divided among various other things, such as PCIe M.2, x4 PCIe slots, thunderbolt etc. I'm not aware of a single motherboard that has an x8 PCIe slot connection from the chipset.

 

2. You'd be looking at dedicated workstation or server platforms. AMD's Threadripper for example, provides loads of PCIe lanes that can easily handle even 2x x16 connections. I believe Intel's current workstation platform is Xeon-W but I'm not as familiar with that side, so can't really say much.

 

I'd say look towards 3000 series threadripper first. All of them provide more than enough PCIe 4.0 lanes to do 2x x16.

 

EDIT: Some of AMD's desktop Ryzen were listed as having more PCIe lanes than they do, removed them.

 

EDIT 2: As mentioned, you lose DDR5 though. Next gen platforms will probably support DDR5, so you might find they also come with more PCIe lanes too. AMD's AM5 platform is supposedly launching soon, which is expected to support DDR5 and might have more PCIe lanes available.

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36 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

1. Theoretically, yes. However, GPUs are almost exclusively used in lanes provided by the CPU, and typically PCH lanes will be divided among various other things, such as PCIe M.2, x4 PCIe slots, thunderbolt etc. I'm not aware of a single motherboard that has an x8 PCIe slot connection from the chipset.

 

2. You'd be looking at dedicated workstation or server platforms. AMD's Threadripper for example, provides loads of PCIe lanes that can easily handle even 2x x16 connections. I believe Intel's current workstation platform is Xeon-W but I'm not as familiar with that side, so can't really say much.

 

I'd say look towards 3000 series threadripper first. I believe all of them can do PCIe 4.0 2x x8 and the Ryzen 9 3950X and up can easily handle 2x x16 as they provide 64 PCIe lanes.

On the topic of lane allocation, my ASRock B450 Pro4, with 2600X

Pcie 3.0 x16 (direct to cpu)

Pcie 2.0 x8

2x Pcie 2.0 x1

Pcie 3.0 x4 m.2 (direct to cpu?)

Pcie 3.0 x2 m.2(2)

Some lanes to chipset I/O? 

second m.2 and 2 sata ports share lanes.

 

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