Need opinion on if motherboard or cpu is faulty (caused by enabling xmp)

[mlsadler]

Hi,

so my brother just bought a new i5-12400 with a asus PRIME Z690M-PLUS D4 (I know that Z690 isn't useful in his case, but they are less expensive than B660 right now). He bought a kit of 2 x 8gb 3600mhz C16 of ram. When he tries an play game, the game would crash or would blue screen. I determined that the ram overclock (xmp) was the cause of the problem.

 

When we took off the xmp, no more crashing. I tried his ram in my pc, with xmp enable and no problem. He then tried my ram with xmp enable in his pc and it would crash ( my ram is 2 x 8gb c18). He tried without xpm enable and no more crashing. Also pointing toward the problem was the bluescreen error that was irql_not_less_or_equal, looking online it indicate that there is a memory error. We also did a clean install, so I don't suspect that it is something software related.

 

I am now almost certain that the problem is related to the ram speed. Either the motherboard is the problem or the cpu memory controller is the problem.

 

I did install the newest bios revision, but still no luck on making it work. I tried using only one stick of ram and it did not work.

 

Other behavior that my help determine the source of the problem is that if we enable xmp, keep the timings but lower the speed to 3200mhz (with both sets of ram) there would be no more crashing. This leads me to believe that the problem is the memory controller because it simply can't handle 3600mhz. To me it would be weird if something with the motherboard would not permit these speeds.

 

What do you think is the problem?

thank you for you opinion!

 

 

[Levent]

Not every RAM can be compatible with every system at their advertised clocks and timings. Just set it as high as it goes be done with it, this is not exactly a problem with IMC or the motherboard. Motherboard QVLs are one thing that you can check to see if that ram is listed in before buying (I personally don't bother) to see if manufacturer tested that particular kit on that motherboard and if they recommend it. Another thing to mention here is, 12th gen platform is at an early stage of its life, bios updates might further increase ram compatibility.  If you plan on returning something, return the rams.

[Mavendow]

According to the motherboard page it should handle up to 5333Mhz which is wildly higher than 3600Mhz. The fact you got irql_not_less_or_equal and not a Memory Management WHEA suggests you're using Windows 7 or Vista? If so, I would suggest the problem is the OS weirdly enough. Vista/Windows 7 is not friendly to very high memory clocks. Windows 10 onward has re-written kernel memory management and Windows v6 kernel thread scheduling was never entirely completed afaik.

 

(Windows 7 is Vista internally, which is version 6.) 

[Levent]

15 minutes ago, Mavendow said:

According to the motherboard page it should handle up to 5333Mhz which is wildly higher than 3600Mhz. The fact you got irql_not_less_or_equal and not a Memory Management WHEA suggests you're using Windows 7 or Vista? If so, I would suggest the problem is the OS weirdly enough. Vista/Windows 7 is not friendly to very high memory clocks. Windows 10 onward has re-written kernel memory management and Windows v6 kernel thread scheduling was never entirely completed afaik.

 

(Windows 7 is Vista internally, which is version 6.) 

The fact that you can't even install Windows 7 on bare metal since 6th gen Intel CPUs and Vista since third gen (Merely 10 years ago) architecture makes this answer is very funny to say the least. This is not a software issue, same error codes are available on Vista,7,8,8.1,10,11.

[Mavendow]

1 minute ago, Levent said:

The fact that you can't even install Windows 7 on bare metal since 6th gen Intel CPUs and Vista since third gen (Merely 10 years ago) architecture makes this answer is very funny to say the least. This is not a software issue.

He just bought a new CPU and motherboard. Windows 7 may not receive updates but it can still run... Just not very well. Last month I postulated some guy was having a power problem because of having a plasma TV in the same room, I got chastised for that, and it turned out he actually had a plasma TV. Bugger off.

[Levent]

1 minute ago, Mavendow said:

He just bought a new CPU and motherboard. Windows 7 may not receive updates but it can still run... Just not very well. Last month I postulated some guy was having a power problem because of having a plasma TV in the same room, I got chastised for that, and it turned out he actually had a plasma TV. Bugger off.

Even if OP had an ancient install of W7 on their boot drive, due to how different the CPU architecture is NT kernel would not know how to handle the CPU. The fact that OP clearly said:

48 minutes ago, mlsadler said:

if we enable xmp, keep the timings but lower the speed to 3200mhz (with both sets of ram) there would be no more crashing

Is a clear indication of problems with RAM or compatibility. Not some obscene possibility of OP using Windows 7 or Vista on 12th gen Intel CPU.

[Mavendow]

1 minute ago, Levent said:

Even if OP had an ancient install of W7 on their boot drive, due to how different the CPU architecture is NT kernel would not know how to handle the CPU.

It doesn't have to, the BIOS is how the system interfaces with the CPU and the HAL (hardware abstraction layer) takes care of calls to and from the BIOS.

 

WHEAs are handled differently from earlier versions as of Windows 10 v1903. So you are factually wrong on that point as well though it's irrelevant to OP's problem.

 

You are really being a jackass for no reason.

[Mark Kaine]

56 minutes ago, mlsadler said:

did install the newest bios revision, but still no luck on making it work. I tried using only one stick of ram and it did not work.

i mean if there's an issue with the bios -- which very much looks like it, then the newest bios isnt guaranteed to fix it, even if you'd hope so. however did you also install chipset drivers? if not i would do that... otherwise i would *return* the motherboard (rma is probably useless in this case) and get another one. 

 

if that still has these issues,  next candidate would be the cpu, or indeed the ram itself...

 

is the ram on the QVL?

 

[mlsadler]

30 minutes ago, Mavendow said:

According to the motherboard page it should handle up to 5333Mhz which is wildly higher than 3600Mhz. The fact you got irql_not_less_or_equal and not a Memory Management WHEA suggests you're using Windows 7 or Vista? If so, I would suggest the problem is the OS weirdly enough. Vista/Windows 7 is not friendly to very high memory clocks. Windows 10 onward has re-written kernel memory management and Windows v6 kernel thread scheduling was never entirely completed afaik.

 

(Windows 7 is Vista internally, which is version 6.) 

We just did a fresh install of windows 11.

[Mavendow]

5 minutes ago, mlsadler said:

We just did a fresh install of windows 11.

Fresh install as in upgrade or a complete reinstall?

 

If it's a complete reinstall, I wouldn't worry. If it's an upgrade then ensure Secure Boot is enabled as this changes hardware registration at boot.

[mlsadler]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

i mean if there's an issue with the bios -- which very much looks like it, then the newest bios isnt guaranteed to fix it, even if you'd hope so. however did you also install chipset drivers? if not i would do that... otherwise i would *return* the motherboard (rma is probably useless in this case) and get another one. 

 

if that still has these issues,  next candidate would be the cpu, or indeed the ram itself...

 

is the ram on the QVL?

 

I am not exaclty sure what QVL is, but here are the 2 ram kits we tried.

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232880?Description=ram&cm_re=ram-_-20-232-880-_-Product

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07RM39V5F?tag=camelcamelcam-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_CA

[mlsadler]

4 minutes ago, Mavendow said:

Fresh install as in upgrade or a complete reinstall?

No complete reinstall, with a USB thumb drive and the Microsoft media creation tool and all.

[Mark Kaine]

1 minute ago, mlsadler said:

am not exaclty sure what QVL is, but here are the 2 ram kits we tried.

Qualified vendor list from motherboard manufacturer. 

 

basically they tell you which ram models were tested, if its not on the QVL there may be issues. 

 

[mlsadler]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

Qualified vendor list from motherboard manufacturer. 

 

basically they tell you which ram models were tested, if its not on the QVL there may be issues. 

 

Ah no it is not. 

In the past I never checked that and never had a problem. I am not often on forum and stuff, but isn't rare that it causes problem?

Maybe because it just came out (the platform) and memory compatibility is still not very good?

[Mavendow]

1 minute ago, mlsadler said:

No complete reinstall, with a USB thumb drive and the Microsoft media creation tool and all.

Definitely isn't your OS and probably not your chipset either since that is handled through WHEAs not IRQL driver levels. Since it's happening with XMP but not on your brother's PC it's likely not the RAM either, unless, as @Mark Kaine mentioned, it's not on the motherboard's QVL. You can find this motherboard's QVL here. https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z690M-PLUS-D4/HelpDesk_QVL_Memory/

[Mark Kaine]

2 minutes ago, mlsadler said:

Ah no it is not. 

In the past I never checked that and never had a problem. I am not often on forum and stuff, but isn't rare that it causes problem?

Maybe because it just came out (the platform) and memory compatibility is still not very good?

maybe because we're on a tech forum,  this isnt actually a rare problem at all ; )

 

 

and yes, that is likely,  i would just get ram that's on the QVL, it will most likely work = )

[mlsadler]

Thank you @Mark Kaine and @Mavendow, I do believe that the problem really is that the memory isn't on the QVL at this point. I will buy some that is and verify.

Thank you very much for your help!

[Mavendow]

1 minute ago, mlsadler said:

Thank you @Mark Kaine and @Mavendow, I do believe that the problem really is that the memory isn't on the QVL at this point. I will buy some that is and verify.

Thank you very much for your help!

This one's all @Mark Kaine so make sure to give him the "solved" if getting QVL RAM solves your problem, but thanks for the mention! If not, just continue this topic and one or both of us will be glad to continue helping.