Question on IBM M5210 SAS adapter; RAID-6???

[Phas3L0ck]

Okay, I have a kind of loaded question about the M5210 SAS card, which is the IBM/Lenovo equivalent of the LSI 9361-8i...

*but first, a little explanation; I'm researching this model both for technical reasons and because I need something modern and extremely compact that can do RAID-6 and has vertical ports like this one does.*

 

My question is; regarding RAID-6, I see it has to be activated as a separate feature, and while the software activation code is available, if I can't use it in the LSI MSM interface, then is it true what so many people are suggesting-- that the hardware CacheCade 2.0 key (found here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/132592996052 ) can actually activate RAID-6 functionality? Does anyone else know about this? I know it's been an issue before but very little detail was given. I last saw a reference at servethehome: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/lsi-9361-8i-no-raid-5-6-licence-where-to-get-lsi-advanced-software-option.17548/

 

And to answer to the readers of this post who are wondering, I intend to use the M5210 with a CacheVault module in my Tyan GN70 server due to the mechanical layout.

 

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Additional details:

RAID-6 for the M5210 is referred to by Lenovo as a "Feature on Demand" (FoD) that must be entered in the Integrated Management Module which ONLY exists in Lenovo servers!

Controller Datasheet: https://lenovopress.com/tips1069.pdf (See page 2)

FoD Documentation: https://lenovopress.com/redp4895.pdf (Look at pages 38-41 and 163-165 for a quick read)

Activation website: https://fod2.lenovo.com/lkms/angular/app/pages/index.htm#/welcome

[StDragon]

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but maybe some food for thought... The hardware may be the same reference design as the LSI, but given the firmware unlock features avaialble, chances are it's using custom OEM firmware that makes it non-compatible.

 

https://lenovopress.com/tips1069-serveraid-m5210-sas-sata-controller

 

 

[Phas3L0ck]

  

23 minutes ago, StDragon said:

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but maybe some food for thought... The hardware may be the same reference design as the LSI, but given the firmware unlock features avaialble, chances are it's using custom OEM firmware that makes it non-compatible.

 

https://lenovopress.com/tips1069-serveraid-m5210-sas-sata-controller

 

 

I thought of that. And so have dozens of other people. In light of a recent disaster (which I recovered from surprisingly easily), I now know of many ways to flash firmware, so that's not a problem. What becomes a problem, however, is the data in NVRAM, which can't be touched. As evidence (and experience) suggests, hardware feature keys are like separate NVRAM augmentations that can be used to add (or transfer) feature options, whereas features stored in NVRAM are permanent and can't be removed or changed no matter what firmware is flashed. In fact, I accidentally used their firmware to update my own proprietary SAS3108 adapter from a different OEM, and it works just fine without affecting the available features.

 

What I don't understand is the structure of Lenovo's FoD, which is what a user in the forum I referenced was grappling with, to determine whether or not there is an underlying code (or variation) of the activation key that would result from the authorization code Lenovo asks for to generate such a key that could possibly be used in LSI's MSM interface.  I can believe that hardware activation keys enable more than one feature, as the one in the eBay link suggests, but where is the PROOF? I need someone who owns such a key to explain if this is a thing or not-- but that's gonna be even harder seeing as RAID-6 is standard on most LSI 9361-8i variants and few people have this issue...  I find it interesting that, in some cases, adding a CacheVault module may enable the MegaRaid SafeStore option (which is surprising as there is a hardware key for that feature as well).

[StDragon]

31 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

 What I don't understand is the structure of Lenovo's FoD, which is what a user in the forum I referenced was grappling with, to determine whether or not there is an underlying code (or variation) of the activation key that would result from the authorization code Lenovo asks for to generate such a key that could possibly be used in LSI's MSM interface. 

Per the link above:

 

"One M5200 Series FoD upgrade activates the feature on all M5200 Series and M5100 Series controllers that are installed in the server. The M5200 Series Zero Cache/RAID 5 Upgrade also activates the equivalent upgrades for M1100 and M1200 Series controllers."

 

I don't know what to make of this. Is this to imply the unlock feature is stored on the server MB? Or that if you make the FoD one-time purchase, it will unlock all adapters in the server. If the later, that would stand to reason you should purchase all the adapters you need ahead of time so you only make that one purchase for all adapters (cost saving measure). If the FoD is handled by the MB, then this won't help you.

[Phas3L0ck]

2 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Is this to imply the unlock feature is stored on the server MB?   Or that if you make the FoD one-time purchase, it will unlock all adapters in the server. If the later, that would stand to reason you should purchase all the adapters you need ahead of time so you only make that one purchase for all adapters (cost saving measure). If the FoD is handled by the MB, then this won't help you.

That's exactly what I'm starting to think. Lenovo mentions that you can add adapters later and they will be given the new feature even after it's been added to the IMM, but the feature will not exist on the adapter if it's moved to another server... So we're basically on the same page in guessing that the mainboard acts as a hardware feature key of it's own to the adapter... I just haven't seen anything like this before.  What really gets me is why this would work if RAID-6 is supposed to be hardware default in SAS3108 chips. Maybe it has something to do with the firmware from IBM/Lenovo being several Meagbytes larger than the one from LSI, and might contain code that makes this "floating default" possible.

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, Phas3L0ck said:

 What really gets me is why this would work if RAID-6 is supposed to be hardware default in SAS3108 chips. Maybe it has something to do with the firmware from IBM/Lenovo being several Meagbytes larger than the one from LSI, and might contain code that makes this "floating default" possible.

So the basic premise behind this is more of a licensing cost thing between OEMs and the vendors of hardware they purchase and license from. That's an entirely separate licensing agreement beyond the one between OEM and end-user.

 

As for why this paradigm even exists (feature to unlock silicon you have)? Well basically, this form of market segmentation is a way of getting the cost of production subsidized in the entry level market without charging them too much of a margin. Basically, it's how you gain a larger market share with the idea of being in the position to profit later from the feature up-sell. And just so you understand my stance, I'm not taking a position in favor or against this idea. But because you asked, just providing some perspective on the matter for why this exists at all but not unlocked by default.

[Phas3L0ck]

12 minutes ago, StDragon said:

So the basic premise behind this is more of a licensing cost thing between OEMs and the vendors of hardware they purchase and license from. That's an entirely separate licensing agreement beyond the one between OEM and end-user.

 

As for why this paradigm even exists (feature to unlock silicon you have)? Well basically, this form of market segmentation is a way of getting the cost of production subsidized in the entry level market without charging them too much of a margin. Basically, it's how you gain a larger market share with the idea of being in the position to profit later from the feature up-sell. And just so you understand my stance, I'm not taking a position in favor or against this idea. But because you asked, just providing some perspective on the matter for why this exists at all but not unlocked by default.

I guess that makes sense, especially knowing Lenovo.

Anyhow I found a partial solution; the CRA4448 from Gigabyte has an identical board design and all the standard features-- except it's not a common part and is twice the overall cost of the M5210 including the CV addon.