Ethics question

Wictorian · October 4, 2021

On 10/2/2021 at 5:05 PM, Zusafek said:

My answer is actually another question. Is humanity worth saving? After all, we are a violent species that causes major destruction to anything we come in contact with. My personal answer would come when the choice had to be made.

Oh, I haven’t heard that a million times before.

Wictorian · October 4, 2021

On 10/2/2021 at 10:53 PM, Bramimond said:

Morality and Ethics are concepts used to make it possible to have a society.

You shouldn't use them as chains to bind you, forcing you into self-sacrifice. You should make use of them, instead.

Asking whether or not something is moral, ethical or just is the wrong question. It is trapping yourself with what is used to enable a society.

Ultimately morals, ethics and justice are just tools.

If these tools are no longer useful to you or cannot be used, since it is you against the entire rest of humanity, you should discard them.

There is no point in killing yourself for others.

The entire dilemma only exists because people got too deluded by mere concepts and frame things in a deceptive way. But what does it matter whether an action is moral, ethical or just if your life is on the line? It doesn't matter at all!

Furthermore, the basis for everything is that you are alive. Towards that end, you use tools like justice to keep you alive for longer. It will always be moral, ethical and just for you to take actions to stay alive. It's not a crime to kill someone in self-defense. At least that's how it was last time I checked.

But if you pit one against everyone else, everyone else will have the exact same justifications and it is looking pretty bad for that one guy. Still, killing yourself is never moral, ethical or just. If the one guy wins and everyone else dies, then he will be the winner. The winner is always right. A pyrrhic victory is better than a hero's death.

Yeah but these tools are still useful in this case. I think a large chunk of people if not most would sacrifice themselves. Not how I would do it but these tools are not on papers, but in our heads, effecting our lives.

Wictorian · October 4, 2021

On 10/3/2021 at 5:16 AM, Jtalk4456 said:

1. Does killing that person prevent ALL future extinctions? Does it guarantee the remaining humans have a GOOD LIFE? How many humans are left? Given we're about to go extinct, thinking in terms of 7 billion population vs 1 might be misguided. Maybe this is 10 vs 1. We have to determine what we are saving and how we define saving it

2. If the person does not sacrifice themselves, is extinction guaranteed or is the only guarantee that sacrifice will prevent extinction? How far in the future? Is this a Jesus dying for our sins millenia in the future in case the sun blows up or is the entirety of humanity about to be eaten by godzilla but there's a really tasty dude and if godzilla gets that person, godzilla will leave us alone? Parameters matter

3. How far are you willing to extrapolate? Does the sacrificial lamb have a family who will be devastated by the loss? Is humanity worth saving? Is Earth worth saving? What matters? What is EXISTENCE
4. You quickly delve into far more than a basic discussion on the end result vs numbers and efficiency vs the wonders of man and religion, insanity ensues

5. Personally, if assumed our race wasn't on the brink of extinction, but could die sometime in coming years and my sacrifice would prevent possible death later, I'd honestly not do it. I have 5 kids and a loving wife. Choosing to kill myself so a bunch of people I don't know are happy but the people I love are crushed, that's not worth it. If we're talking godzilla and I'm the tasty human, IDK, I'd like to think so because it would make no logical sense to say no and die anyways and know my kids will die, but again I'm choosing to take my kids father away vs choosing to huddle together and hug them as the race goes extinct. It makes no sense that being able to hug them would be preferable, but it's honestly taught to intentionally hurt children you've raised. I'd need to actually have the real situation to tell you what I would actually do.

1- This is quite pointless. Let’s say it is 6,99 B v 1

2- No you will live.

3- Humanity *IS* worth saving. Your family is included. But the question is, is it worth giving up your life?

5-As I said your family is included. Also, what about this? What if you had to kill everyone (by means of weapons of destruction for instance) to save you & your family?