New built or prebuilt

[Outdated]

Budget (including currency): 2500-3000CAD

Country: Canada 

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for:  primarily gaming and the odd office work,

games like all kinds of Simulator Games and RPGs but also not afraid of a round of COD or Battlefield 

Other details upgrading from a HP Pavilion dv7 Laptop with an 1st Gen i7 and an ATI Radeon graphics 

got no peripherals 

would need a Monitor, Mouse and Keyboard.

Plan on buying before Christmas Holidays.

Looking for some that would last me at least 5 years with no updates needed.

I’m lost in this new world of PCs on what to buy and what I should stay away from.

Been doing some research but can’t really find the right path out of this jungle.

i visited the local stores but they seem to charge me my first born for a decent setup.

Anyone out there that could point me in the right direction?

 

 

[Jorban]

generally in the past i've always recommended building it for yourself
however with the gpu market being the way it is, i somewhat recommend against that?

if you can buy a system with a notable gpu for your resolution / workcase that's perfect

ABS on newegg is a decent place to start generally.

 

as for keyboard and mouse - you can't go wrong with logitech's new stuff. they're pricy, but they go for that quality over quantity idea i believe.

i am running a G710+ from like 6 years ago, and it still holds up, and i just upgraded to the g502 lightspeed, 100% love both

i am not sure for canada, but ABS has a 1300USD system with a 3060ti and 10400f.
that might honestly looking into if youre going 1080p/1440p

keep in mind that 1440p is just about 2x as hard to run than 1080p, so if you find yourself looking @ a nice high refreshrate 1440p monitor, you might be better with the 3060ti/3070
if youre going 1080p the normal 3060 is more than fine!

[KaTaLy5t-87]

Like what @JJorbannsaid, pre-builts are a little more enticing in the current market because you can usually get a decent GPU for reasonable enough prices from some places. 

 

Before committing your hard-earned Canadian Roubles I would listen to what the good folk on here have to say. Then search YouTube for some review videos on the recommendations and see how you feel about paying for a pre-built. 

 

There are some places selling some really poorly built systems and I'd hate to see someone pay that much money to end up with some they are disappointed in. 

 

Some of the things to look out for with pre-builts are as follows:

 

• Proprietary motherboards that will not fit any standard case. I think Dell and possibly HP are know for this.
• Proprietary power supply units (PSUs) that can't be replaced with a standard PSU because a standard PSU won't fit in the space provided in the case. Alienware systems use this kind of thing.
• Nice looking cases with tempered glass, nice lines and RGB that basically chokes your CPU and GPU into submission because of lack of airflow. You will lose performance because of things like this because the CPU and GPU will slow down (thermal throttle) to keep their temperature down and prevent them from cooking. Alienware is another candidate here.
• Using budget parts in a "premium build". There's nothing wrong with budget parts but not when someone is paying a couple of grand for a system. Some vendors will use the stock CPU cooler that comes free with the CPU. They'll use cheap (slow) RAM and may even put in only one stick of RAM (single channel) which will cripple an AMD Ryzen system. They might use their own version (OEM) of a GPU such as a Dell branded RTX 3080 that might have underpar (cheaper) cooling solutions on them.
• They will use marketing and gimmicks to make something sound great such as "High Performance" or "Extreme Gaming" and other crap like that. 

 

You just need to watch out for these and some other pitfalls before you part with your money. Look out for "wooly" (ambiguous) specifications such as "16GB of high performance gaming RAM". OK, but what exactly is it? "16GB (2x8GB of 3600Mhz CL16 Crucial Ballistix RAM" tells you a lot more about what performance you might get. 

 

The same goes for motherboards and other parts. They should specific what the parts are exactly rather than give wooly descriptions.

 

Do your research, use the resources that are out there, YouTube, Google, these forums and, once you're happy with what you're going to purchase, go for it.

 

If you want to build it yourself then go that way but, the current market is a pain (I know because I've been waiting to build all year!).

[Outdated]

So I would have to start with Case , mobo, ram sticks aso

[Jonathan Lee]

Couple of opinions for my fellow Canadian:

 

For building your own, you can check Newegg bundle deals. There are some that are decent (considering the market right now). Some examples:

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails?ItemList=Combo.4345315 (more mid-range)

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails?ItemList=Combo.4333644 (more budget)

 

There are also some ABS prebuilts on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.ca/abs-ali563/p/N82E16883360193?Item=N82E16883360193 (might need a better cooler and more storage though)

https://www.newegg.ca/abs-ali549/p/N82E16883360169?Item=N82E16883360169 (this is a best value right now, imo)

https://www.newegg.ca/abs-ala256/p/N82E16883360170?Item=N82E16883360170 (high end build)

[GeorgeMKane]

You can easily find bundles on Newegg that will fit your budget. I highly doubt you'll need to upgrade anything in this build list, for a long while.

 

BUILD GUIDE | Thermal Paste (CROSS/X METHOD) | What Comes After

 

There will be instructions on the motherboard manufacturer's website, on how to use the BIOS flashback feature (that comes built-in the motherboard) if needed too.

 

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/K2h9bh

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($356.75 @ shopRBC) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S redux 70.75 CFM CPU Cooler  ($62.95 @ Amazon Canada) 
Motherboard: MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($169.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory  ($169.99 @ Memory Express) 
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($99.00 @ Amazon Canada) 
Storage: Western Digital SN750 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($154.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Case: Corsair iCUE 4000X RGB ATX Mid Tower Case  ($169.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Case Fan: Corsair iCUE SP120 RGB ELITE 47.7 CFM 120 mm Fan  ($27.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Keyboard: Corsair K55 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($59.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Mouse: Corsair M65 RGB ELITE Wired Optical Mouse  ($69.98 @ Amazon Canada) 
Speakers: Logitech Z333 40 W 2.1 Channel Speakers  ($104.09 @ Amazon Canada) 
Custom: Corsair Fan Controller Commander Pro (CL-9011110-WW)  ($89.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Custom: GIGABYTE Gaming GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB + CORSAIR RMx Series RM650x 2018 80+ Gold PSU ($1014.98)
$2550.68

[Outdated]

I appreciate all the replies and i am very thankful for the info. 
I will take a closer look at all the links and  parts posted as soon as I get home. 
Thank You very much

 

[Jorban]

13 hours ago, GeorgeMKane said:

You can easily find bundles on Newegg that will fit your budget. I highly doubt you'll need to upgrade anything in this build list, for a long while.

 

BUILD GUIDE | Thermal Paste (CROSS/X METHOD) | What Comes After

 

There will be instructions on the motherboard manufacturer's website, on how to use the BIOS flashback feature (that comes built-in the motherboard) if needed too.

 

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/K2h9bh

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($356.75 @ shopRBC) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S redux 70.75 CFM CPU Cooler  ($62.95 @ Amazon Canada) 
Motherboard: MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($169.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory  ($169.99 @ Memory Express) 
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($99.00 @ Amazon Canada) 
Storage: Western Digital SN750 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($154.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Case: Corsair iCUE 4000X RGB ATX Mid Tower Case  ($169.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Case Fan: Corsair iCUE SP120 RGB ELITE 47.7 CFM 120 mm Fan  ($27.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Keyboard: Corsair K55 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($59.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Mouse: Corsair M65 RGB ELITE Wired Optical Mouse  ($69.98 @ Amazon Canada) 
Speakers: Logitech Z333 40 W 2.1 Channel Speakers  ($104.09 @ Amazon Canada) 
Custom: Corsair Fan Controller Commander Pro (CL-9011110-WW)  ($89.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Custom: GIGABYTE Gaming GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB + CORSAIR RMx Series RM650x 2018 80+ Gold PSU ($1014.98)
$2550.68

Honestly, there are few issues that I personally have with this system.
3060ti pulls quite a bit of power for a 650w system, you can most likely get away with it, but it's undesired.
Also the RM650x 2018 model is placed as a C-Tier when it comes to the PSU Tier list on the Cultists.Network site. - Generally want to go B or higher, espeicially if you're running out with a 3000's series card.

The CPU cooler for a 5600x is totally overkill in price, it really isn't worth it when you can find much better coolers, for much better prices.
Alonside the SSD, no one needs that kind of performance for a gaming oriented desktop.
Memory also seems to be overkill and is dogshit slow when it comes to Ryzen - you generally want to shoot for 3600CL16

Keyboards/Mice/Speakers/Headphones are seriously hard to recommend, as it is mostly up to the end user. Personally I find that Corsair mice are very cheap and not built well. (Might be personal beef)

Personally, this is what I would go for - https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/rtsm68

The differences are going to be:

Faster memory / less capacity
Same quality motherboard, just cheaper, and without Gen 4 PCI-E (However some have been able to get Gen 4 working on that specific board.)
Better Price/Performance CPU cooler.
Much better PSU
Not a guarenteed drop for a 3060ti
Slower / Smaller SSD - Also Gen 3, but not a soul needs Gen 4 for gaming workloads, you seriously aren't going to notice the difference unless you're raiding the system / working with enterprise work loads.
Keyboard / Mouse / Headphones are my personal preference


Please keep in mind that this card accells @ 1440P compared to 1080P - I would take this route souly to have more money for the monitor. I didn't suggest a specific one, as it's mostly personal when it comes to deciding what you want.
There are tons of sub $600 1440P monitors, and I think this route would do you best in terms of quality/performance.


However, looking back at my original recomendation, it seems dumb to go with either of the choices when building the PC as prebuilts are much better for the value. This prebuilt slams both in terms of performance and price...
If you do go this route, be prepared to wipe windows completely and get rid of any STD's that come preinstalled on it.
Other than that, I think that system will last you much longer that you'd ever need it to.
As it is a 3070, I highly recommend 1440P in terms of monitor resolution for this computer, otherwise it will be a complete waste of a GPU, and you'd be better off spending the money on one of the 3060 systems paired with a 10400f.


Tier Lists:
PSU
SSD

[GeorgeMKane]

1. 650W is a solid PSU wattage for this system. I added in a FE 3060Ti, and multiplied the estimated wattage by 1.5 (to allow for any overclocking or spikes), and it didn't even go up to 650W.
2. I like how you said the cpu cooler price is overkill, and then you went for a more expensive one.
3. You're 100% wrong about the storage.
4. Not only B450... but ASRock? Those literally have the worst history of any known motherboard manufacturer, outside of the proprietary crap you get in a lot of pre-builts from HP and etc.
5. I would also like to take a moment and laugh a lot, if you think you're getting a 3060Ti at MSRP anytime soon, without standing outside Best Buy in Canada, staring inside the place forever.

[Jorban]

5 hours ago, GeorgeMKane said:

1. 650W is a solid PSU wattage for this system. I added in a FE 3060Ti, and multiplied the estimated wattage by 1.5 (to allow for any overclocking or spikes), and it didn't even go up to 650W.
2. I like how you said the cpu cooler price is overkill, and then you went for a more expensive one.
3. You're 100% wrong about the storage.
4. Not only B450... but ASRock? Those literally have the worst history of any known motherboard manufacturer, outside of the proprietary crap you get in a lot of pre-builts from HP and etc.
5. I would also like to take a moment and laugh a lot, if you think you're getting a 3060Ti at MSRP anytime soon, without standing outside Best Buy in Canada, staring inside the place forever.

Look into the resources that I had provided in order to give my information and then come back with something else.

Wattage =/= Quality.

The SSD you recommended is 100% overkill. It's rated for:
"High intensivity workstation/productivity applications, acceptable for HEDT/Pro-sumer applications. Also works as an excuse to spend money."

It makes no sense to purchase that here in a terms of pure gaming aspect.

Various tests have proven that no one is going to notice the difference in gaming unless you are sitting at the monitor, an inch away, and using a stopwatch. There’s no reason to seriously justify spending that much on a Pro-Sumer grade SSD when the step down performs just fine.

The price to performance ratio for the Scythe Fuma 2 compared to the NH-12U is much better. - The Vetroo V5 even does better than the 12U and it's like 25USD compared to the 12U's 60USD.

AsRock B450 Steel Legend is a good motherboard... You don't buy for brand, you buy for product. + it's a 5600x, it will quite literally run on anything and this board is more than capable of running the chip. I did see that I made the mistake of putting a B450M board rather than a full size B450 board.

There is nothing wrong with B450.
B550 is overpriced due to the chipset and the support for Gen 4 PCI-E, which is 100% not needed in any workflow other than enterprise.
So if you can reduce the cost greatly, and still have the chance of Gen 4 PCI-E working on an older chipset, it works perfectly fine.
Otherwise you can always go the route of Intel and pair something along the lines of a 10400f and a B560 board, and that will lead you on par with the 5600x in terms of performance and value - but then you're left still without PCI-E Gen 4.

Also in terms of proprietary, it would have been better to list Dell off as your ideal market. HP still has proprietary hardware, it's just not as bad as a company like Dell. HP prebuilts usually lie from the OMEN brand, and they're the general low end stuff, but it's still ATX form factor.

Regardless, he'd be getting a much better deal by looking into the system that was recommended on Newegg by ABS than building anything @ the moment, and ultimately that's what I recommended.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:54 AM, Outdated said:

I’m lost in this new world of PCs on what to buy and what I should stay away from.

I can tell you to avoid rgb like its the plague cause if you choose overpriced rgb garbage youll end up sinking a crap ton of money on useless lights that dont add performance whatsoever

 

although if you go for the cheaper rgb stuff and dont go overkill with the rgb then id say youll prob be fine, unless youve spent more than 100ca on rgb alone (a good example of a money sink is corsair overpriced fans and rgb ram)

[GeorgeMKane]

Quote

You don't buy for brand, you buy for product.

Have you bought anything ever in your life? Remember those old wooden LEGO's that were more fun and less dangerous (to your feet) than actual LEGO's? Yeah, some will... but more people buy LEGO's. Why? The brand.

 

You made up the stuff about the SSD, so I won't even respond to that. There's no evidence anywhere that says it's overkill for a gaming build. In fact, people build with Samsung m.2 nvme ssd's all the time, and they're more popular, more reliable, and faster than the wd m.2 nvme ssd's. I recommend full SSD builds, when people have the budget, because a SSD combo (this almost always includes M.2 NVME + 2.5" SSDs) is going to last you a lot longer than a build with a SSD + HDD combo.

 

B450 is old. It was made for Ryzen 2000 series processors. Unless the person is on a severe budget, I would not recommend it. B550 was created to be a cheaper option than X570.

 

The 10th gen intel cpu + b560 motherboard is more of a value option, than a performance one. 5600X + B550 will outperform that combo everytime.

 

I would recommend checking your facts before you attempt to give advice again.

[Spotty]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:06 AM, Jorban said:

Honestly, there are few issues that I personally have with this system.
3060ti pulls quite a bit of power for a 650w system, you can most likely get away with it, but it's undesired.
Also the RM650x 2018 model is placed as a C-Tier when it comes to the PSU Tier list on the Cultists.Network site. - Generally want to go B or higher, espeicially if you're running out with a 3000's series card.

650W is plenty for a system with a 5600X and 3060Ti. The Corsair RMx is Tier A in the tier list you linked to, not Tier C. The MSI PSU you suggested would also be a good option - they're both good PSUs - but your reasons for discounting the RM650x are wrong.

[LogicalDrm]

10 hours ago, GeorgeMKane said:

Have you bought anything ever in your life? Remember those old wooden LEGO's that were more fun and less dangerous (to your feet) than actual LEGO's? Yeah, some will... but more people buy LEGO's. Why? The brand.

Yet you recommend MSI. Back when I got into PCs, MSI and Gigabyte were the cheap-o brands. Look at them now. Couple years later ASrock was the cheap-o version of Asus (literally).
They have all come ways upwards with quality and features since. For example, Level1 frequently tests and praises ASrock boards. Can you point reviews or tests saying latest ASrock boards are bad?

 

Quote

You made up the stuff about the SSD, so I won't even respond to that. There's no evidence anywhere that says it's overkill for a gaming build. In fact, people build with Samsung m.2 nvme ssd's all the time, and they're more popular, more reliable, and faster than the wd m.2 nvme ssd's. I recommend full SSD builds, when people have the budget, because a SSD combo (this almost always includes M.2 NVME + 2.5" SSDs) is going to last you a lot longer than a build with a SSD + HDD combo.

 

 

Why recommend two different SSDs? I would call that waste of money. Other than that, I would not go that hard against having HDD. I have retired one HDD after 8 years in use. Considering how long HDDs have been a thing, one can easily last 5 years. And also considering the prices still, getting 4tb for same price with 1Tb SSD sounds to me better deal unless OP deals with high bitrate videos or heavy 3D projects.

Edited September 23, 2021 by LogicalDrm

[Jorban]

7 hours ago, Spotty said:

650W is plenty for a system with a 5600X and 3060Ti. The Corsair RMx is Tier A in the tier list you linked to, not Tier C. The MSI PSU you suggested would also be a good option - they're both good PSUs - but your reasons for discounting the RM650x are wrong.

I appologize if that is the case.
I could have very well have been looking at a different year model, perhaps maybe confusing it with the CX models.

I will take a look back @ the tier list that I have, and see if it's the case.

[GeorgeMKane]

15 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

Yet you recommend MSI. Back when I got into PCs, MSI and Gigabyte were the cheap-o brands. Look at them now. Couple years later ASrock was the cheap-o version of Asus (literally).
They have all come ways upwards with quality and features since. For example, Level1 frequently tests and praises ASrock boards. Can you point reviews or tests saying latest ASrock boards are bad?

 

Why recommend two different SSDs? I would call that waste of money. Other than that, I would not go that hard against having HDD. I have retired one HDD after 8 years in use. Considering how long HDDs have been a thing, one can easily last 5 years. And also considering the prices still, getting 4tb for same price with 1Tb SSD sounds to me better deal unless OP deals with high bitrate videos or heavy 3D projects.

• Until earlier this year, I worked in a big box retail store for the last few years, and 8/10 complaints with motherboards were from ASRock. Usually pre-built companies use the cheap-o ASRock motherboards with their pre-built desktop lines. The other 2/10 complaints were just simple incompatibility swaps and etc. that the customer overlooked.
• I'm not saying don't get a HDD. I'm just saying two SSDs (not two different), in a SSD combo, will work a lot faster and obviously help the build last a lot longer. By the time you upgrade two or three times down the line, those SSDs will still be solid. I cannot say the same for HDDs.

[LogicalDrm]

2 hours ago, GeorgeMKane said:

obviously help the build last a lot longer.

This is not obvious. You make it sound like a known fact when most of what you are saying is just opinions and personal experience.

 

As for ASrock, like with any brand, there's a difference between cheap and expensive. So I wouldn't rule out expensive boards right away if I were you. I had ASrock board back in the day. Only complain about it was that it didn't OC well. It was taken to recycling center fully working after 10 years in use.

[GeorgeMKane]

44 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

This is not obvious. You make it sound like a known fact when most of what you are saying is just opinions and personal experience.

It is. The HDD is the slowest and most prone to fail component of any build (outside of possibly the psu, because we all know what can happen there). That's why going with a SSD, even adding another one for mass storage, reduces the risk of failure. With HDDs you have to worry about that spinning disc and the needle. With SSDs, literally the only things to look out for are heat and physical damage. Granted there's also the age, but SSDs usually last much longer than HDDs, because of basically no moving parts.

 

Also, you have your experience with brands and I have mine. I've used MSI with no problems. You've used ASRock with no problems. There's opinions and stories, not facts. My opinion, based off of my history, is that ASRock is not a reliable brand. Your experience shows that ASRock is a reliable brand.

 

I've been cautioned before about recommending that brand, because I've seen a lot of pre-built desktops with their cheaply priced B450M Pro 4 (something like that) motherboard in a lot of them, with not great VRMs or anything. I saw more customers bring those back than others.

[Outdated]

Thank You again for the info

after all that has been said

what would be the the ideal spec I should look for ?

other then the main things like good air flow case/tower  aso

you got me a bit confused  

[Jonathan Lee]

I think looking for at least an 8 core CPU with at least a 3060TI should be plenty for your needs.

 

I would go something like this for prebuild:

https://www.newegg.ca/abs-ali544/p/N82E16883360164?Item=N82E16883360164

 

Or for building yourself you can go with this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-10700F 2.9 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($339.00 @ Canada Computers) 
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 Black Edition 66.47 CFM CPU Cooler  ($80.00 @ Amazon Canada) 
Motherboard: MSI MAG B560 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1200 Motherboard  ($239.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Memory: Team T-FORCE DARK Za 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory  ($173.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Storage: Silicon Power P34A80 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($137.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card  ($1799.00 @ Amazon Canada) 
Case: MSI MAG FORGE 100R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($95.31 @ Amazon Canada) 
Power Supply: MSI MPG A-GF 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($117.84 @ Amazon Canada) 
Total: $2983.12
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-27 23:59 EDT-0400

 

I would wait to see what the new Intel 12th gen stuff is like though. Coming out this november

[Phantomcorgi94]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JVzcJf