Let's Talk PC

[Real_PhillBert]

so lets say we get PSU's to be so efficient, they run fanless, the components are shrunk to half the size, and wattage is 500w (Equivilent to current 650)

Will we see the form factor of these parts to change SO much that the size of computers them selves will no longer be (mid to full towers)?

Are we going to be looking at Micro or Mini ATX being the next Mid Tower?

 

I dont think you really understand how the efficiency ratings work on current PSU's. A 650w PSU can only generate a maximum of 650w of output, but if its 80+ bronze and 80% efficient, it will pull 812.5w from your wall. 

[JLCitadel]

I think you are going to see more of an emphasis placed on efficiency throughout the PC. Look at the few maxwell cards that have been released, or haswell for that matter. 

 

Some of the really nice PSU's I know are over 95% efficiency so that may not be the low hanging fruit anymore.

 

I do think you will see less and less 80+ bronze rated PSU's as the price of the more efficient units comes down.

so the shift will be an increase in efficiency as a norm, but a price drop in current ones, with the addition of a new high tier, and the loss of a low tier.

(titanium becoming the platinum, and silver shifting down to bronze status)

 

We have fanless PSU's. Seasonic makes a 520 Watt 80+ Platinum fansless one lol. 

Okay I was pretty sure there was one, but how about a lot more manufactures following up with this process? Do you think it's a trend that will become normal?

 

I think that the EVGA Hadron's PSU is a great way of showing of how small efficent PSU's can be. And welll PSU with a lower amount of wattage are generally smaller. And no i don't think that the prices will stay the same. They will come down that is for sure but it's going to be the who has the most efficent PSU game alll over again. Maybe, maybe once we will see 99% efficent PSU's. Pico PSU's. 

Where does the name Pico PSU come from? (I'm familiar with the prefix Pico but I don't understand its usage here)

How far in the foreseable future do you see 99% being the (platinum)

 

I'd give it about 6 year

[AMICLG]

so lets say we get PSU's to be so efficient, they run fanless, the components are shrunk to half the size, and wattage is 500w (Equivilent to current 650)

Will we see the form factor of these parts to change SO much that the size of computers them selves will no longer be (mid to full towers)?

Are we going to be looking at Micro or Mini ATX being the next Mid Tower?

We already have 500 watt 80 plus gold SFX PSUs so more efficiency would mean high wattage PSUs in the already existing SFX formfactor and smaller ones at 500 watts.

[Real_PhillBert]

so the shift will be an increase in efficiency as a norm, but a price drop in current ones, with the addition of a new high tier, and the loss of a low tier.

(titanium becoming the platinum, and silver shifting down to bronze status)

 

Yep, that's more or less my impression.

[JLCitadel]

There are already some psu's from seasonic that do not use fans and are 500W. However I think the psu is just over built and more like an 1000W psu that has the option to only turn on the fan after 50% load...

 

Well some people are still going to be wanting extreme performance for watercooling and sli/xfire rigs, but for the average consumer I think we have already started leaning towards smaller and smaller computers.

Are there lots of issues with those PSU's if they're under max load for too long?

That's true I agree. I wonder how water cooling will change.. will it reach a point where watercooling literally does nothing?

Will parts become so heat efficient that there won't be enough to warrant even a fan?

That's an interesting notion.

 

I dont think you really understand how the efficiency ratings work on current PSU's. A 650w PSU can only generate a maximum of 650w of output, but if its 80+ bronze and 80% efficient, it will pull 812.5w from your wall. 

Oh really? Wow I guess I was mistaken, I thought it was something along the lines of, you draw 650w from the wall, and if it's 94% efficient, you can use 94% of that 650watts, (the rest of it gets lost some where along the way.. but by that logic if it's pulling more wattage from the wall doesn't it use more power?

[JLCitadel]

We already have 500 watt 80 plus gold SFX PSUs so more efficiency would mean high wattage PSUs in the already existing SFX formfactor and smaller ones at 500 watts.

do you think think that power supplys for desktops will eventually become so small that we'll see laptop intergration? or vice versa, will laptop power supply units become so efficient and small that we see a part migration to desktops?

 

Yep, that's more or less my impression.

ah i see.

[toms94z71]

I will tell you something I want to see, A cell phone where the back cover is a solar panel so if I am away from a socket out fishing or something, and my phone is about dead I can turn it off and flip it over and it will slowly charge back up. I know it would take a while to charge up a modern smart phone but if you make the whole back panel an efficient solar panel I would imagine over the course of a day in the sun with light use it could get a decent charge on it or at least maintain it enough to not die on you. I just thought about this when I saw the comment about a solar panel on the computer.

[JLCitadel]

I will tell you something I want to see, A cell phone where the back cover is a solar panel so if I am away from a socket out fishing or something, and my phone is about dead I can turn it off and flip it over and it will slowly charge back up. I know it would take a while to charge up a modern smart phone but if you make the whole back panel an efficient solar panel I would imagine over the course of a day in the sun with light use it could get a decent charge on it or at least maintain it enough to not die on you. I just thought about this when I saw the comment about a solar panel on the computer.

 

I love this idea. Same thing for laptops, shut it off, or have them generate just enough power so it doesnt die on you for emergency purposes. or just to pick it up and text once and a while. that's a great idea

[Izaya Orihara]

so the shift will be an increase in efficiency as a norm, but a price drop in current ones, with the addition of a new high tier, and the loss of a low tier.

(titanium becoming the platinum, and silver shifting down to bronze status)

 

Okay I was pretty sure there was one, but how about a lot more manufactures following up with this process? Do you think it's a trend that will become normal?

 

Where does the name Pico PSU come from? (I'm familiar with the prefix Pico but I don't understand its usage here)

How far in the foreseable future do you see 99% being the (platinum)

 

I'd give it about 6 year

Pico just means small in italian. Small PSU. They are frikken tiny. These are a thing.  Also yes i think so. And there are more (at least 50) but it only had this one on my mind. I'd say 10 years. Why? On the way to perfection it becomes more difficult everytime to be even better. 

[prolemur]

Are there lots of issues with those PSU's if they're under max load for too long?

That's true I agree. I wonder how water cooling will change.. will it reach a point where watercooling literally does nothing?

Will parts become so heat efficient that there won't be enough to warrant even a fan?

That's an interesting notion.

I don't think so, seasonic is one of the best power supply manufacturers.

Well overclocking is adding voltage to these parts which would make the processors run hotter and enthusiast parts will not be that power efficient for a long time imo. Watercooling pretty much already is just a thing done for looks, silence and looks with a small performance increase that arguably is not worth the money spent I say this even though I will be purchasing a custom loop for my m-itx build soon enough.

[Izaya Orihara]

I will tell you something I want to see, A cell phone where the back cover is a solar panel so if I am away from a socket out fishing or something, and my phone is about dead I can turn it off and flip it over and it will slowly charge back up. I know it would take a while to charge up a modern smart phone but if you make the whole back panel an efficient solar panel I would imagine over the course of a day in the sun with light use it could get a decent charge on it or at least maintain it enough to not die on you. I just thought about this when I saw the comment about a solar panel on the computer.

I'm actually quite sure that there is a phone case that does that. 

[Real_PhillBert]

Are there lots of issues with those PSU's if they're under max load for too long?

That's true I agree. I wonder how water cooling will change.. will it reach a point where watercooling literally does nothing?

Will parts become so heat efficient that there won't be enough to warrant even a fan?

That's an interesting notion.

 

Oh really? Wow I guess I was mistaken, I thought it was something along the lines of, you draw 650w from the wall, and if it's 94% efficient, you can use 94% of that 650watts, (the rest of it gets lost some where along the way.. but by that logic if it's pulling more wattage from the wall doesn't it use more power?

 

Yes, if you are using your power supply at 100% of its power output, it will be using more than the rated power from your wall, the rest is just being lost to heat.

[AMICLG]

do you think think that power supplys for desktops will eventually become so small that we'll see laptop intergration? or vice versa, will laptop power supply units become so efficient and small that we see a part migration to desktops?

 

ah i see.

They're a universal ultrabook changer that's not much bigger than an iphone power brick (just a bit longer) so power supply integrated into ultrabooks and laptops is likely to happen considering cell phones are already more than half way there.

[spwath]

do you think it's feasible to think we will have fan-less psu's in the near future?

we have them now

[JLCitadel]

Pico just means small in italian. Small PSU. They are frikken tiny. These are a thing.  Also yes i think so. And there are more (at least 50) but it only had this one on my mind. I'd say 10 years. Why? On the way to perfection it becomes more difficult everytime to be even better. 

Oh alrighty. I'm going to look that up that's interesting.  I agree, at first i thought 10 years, but i thought with exponential growth in tech it'd be sooner.

 

I don't think so, seasonic is one of the best power supply manufacturers.

Well overclocking is adding voltage to these parts which would make the processors run hotter and enthusiast parts will not be that power efficient for a long time imo. Watercooling pretty much already is just a thing done for looks, silence and looks with a small performance increase that arguably is not worth the money spent I say this even though I will be purchasing a custom loop for my m-itx build soon enough.

I agree with that. & I'd love to see your build. I can't say I've seen a M-ITX WC Build before.

 

They're a universal ultrabook changer that's not much bigger than an iphone power brick (just a bit longer) so power supply integrated into ultrabooks and laptops is likely to happen considering cell phones are already more than half way there.

What do you mean cell phones are half way there?

 

Yes, if you are using your power supply at 100% of its power output, it will be using more than the rated power from your wall, the rest is just being lost to heat.

but doesn't that mean that your power bill will be higher..? I thought higher efficiency lowered it..

 

I'm actually quite sure that there is a phone case that does that. 

this would actually probably be a better idea then the phone itself. having cases for different sources of energy (heat or light).. OR both?

[AMICLG]

What do you mean cell phones are half way there?

And laptops/ultra books. They already split up the power instead of the PSU doing so you'd just need to add the ac adapter into the laptop/ultrabook and that's it every thing is self contained so you on carry one wire to charge your laptop and not a brick.

[prolemur]

Just got another idea from the post about laptop parts being integrated into desktops; how about a ups built into a power supply!

 

Also I don't see the point of having a psu inside a notebook, do you mean instead of having the external power brick, and having that integrated into the battery or another part of the notebook?

 

@Luclocke my m-tix build planning is in my sig so if you want to follow that for now you can, i will post a link on that thread to my actual build log thread when that happens. I'm planning on fitting 2x240mm radiators in the ncase m1, one will need slim fans, but it would still help and I'm really excited for it

[JLCitadel]

Just got another idea from the post about laptop parts being integrated into desktops; how about a ups built into a power supply!

 

Also I don't see the point of having a psu inside a notebook, do you mean instead of having the external power brick, and having that integrated into the battery or another part of the notebook?

Yeah, what do you mean UPS?

 yes power brick inside the notebook itself.

 

And laptops/ultra books. They already split up the power instead of the PSU doing so you'd just need to add the ac adapter into the laptop/ultrabook and that's it every thing is self contained so you on carry one wire to charge your laptop and not a brick.

maybe when this happens, phones could use the same connector, and we could solve the usb charging issue with phones.

[prolemur]

Yeah, what do you mean UPS?

UPS as in it would allow the power supply to use a battery when the power goes out or surges. There are already external UPS's, but having it inside the psu could be a further advancement and make it easier to integrate if they communicated directly as oppose to not at all.

[JLCitadel]

UPS as in it would allow the power supply to use a battery when the power goes out or surges. There are already external UPS's, but having it inside the psu could be a further advancement and make it easier to integrate if they communicated directly as oppose to not at all.

 

Ah i see. Maybe with the size shrinkage of PSU's we'll see optional UPS attachments or integration. That'd be pretty cool. Although one could already do that if you have a 900D and a SFX PSU lmao.

[spwath]

How about laptop with a pci-e port and the power brick also has dual 6+2 pin leads. Like the PCI would be next to the keyboard with the GPU sticking up next to the keyboard (only for use while plugged in)

[JLCitadel]

How about laptop with a pci-e port and the power brick also has dual 6+2 pin leads. Like the PCI would be next to the keyboard with the GPU sticking up next to the keyboard (only for use while plugged in)

 

So as an alternative for laptop gamers, you could do this, and have a really good GPU like 780 for example, then plug it in when you're gaming at home, and take it out when doing stuff when you don't need it?

[spwath]

So as an alternative for laptop gamers, you could do this, and have a really good GPU like 780 for example, then plug it in when you're gaming at home, and take it out when doing stuff when you don't need it?

yeah

[xox]

I really like the idea of really long and short power supplies, they would use up less space and cooling them would be more effective

[DIV1D3]

Superconductive PSUs that can output 1500Ws. Like really that's where it'll be heading, I'm not so sure about the size of the power supply as I have no idea of the components and electrical circuits in/on the board so I can't say if it'd be possible to downsize on it. Eventually there will be a decrease in size, it'll happen, it's how everything technological is going. Smaller, more efficient and more powerful, I predict in about a century we'll have the power of 10 Titan Zs powered by a 750W PSU the size of a NUC nowadays.