Corsair H150i Elite Capellix vs NZXT Kraken Z73

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, NorKris said:

No Fan recommended on this forum or coming with an AIO will have that low pressure.

 

please share a pic of a fan with THAT low pressure so ppl that find this thread will know. 

Of course not.  A fan coming with an AIO won’t have that problem.  That’s what I said.  People don’t only use fans recommended by this fourm though.  For one they will also use fans that come with their cases. 
 

bah. Pic won’t add right.  Making new post..

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Of course not.  A fan coming with an AIO won’t have that problem.  That’s what I said.  People don’t only use fans recommended by this fourm though.  For one they will also use fans that come with their cases. 

this is prob the "worst" fan i know of ... for pressure

i can test this on an AIO

 

 

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, NorKris said:

No Fan recommended on this forum or coming with an AIO will have that low pressure.

 

please share a pic of a fan with THAT low pressure so ppl that find this thread will know. 

 

These are some fans I suspect have pretty low static pressure that aren’t in my machine atm.  They are older.  I actually very much like the 4 blader I have because it gives me good temps and is quiet.  I think it’s in my machine atm. The top orange one has trouble with even mild filtering.

[NorKris]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

These are some fans I suspect have pretty low static pressure that aren’t in my machine atm.  They are older.  I actually very much like the 4 blader I have because it gives me good temps and is quiet.  I think it’s in my machine atm. 

The green one would perform good on AIO's.  prob better than many of corsairs super-RGB fans 

[Bombastinator]

Just now, NorKris said:

The green one would perform good on AIO's.  prob better than many of corsairs super-RGB fans 

The enlobal bearing fan? I suspect it would wreck it.  The thing had to be balanced down to the flashing to even work.  On the instructions for the fan was a warning not to remove any flashing or perceived imperfections because the thing was actually balanced with small bits of plastic and removing flashing was enough to throw the balance off

[NorKris]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The enlobal bearing fan? I suspect it would wreck it.  The thing had to be balanced down to the flashing to even work.  On the instructions for the fan was a warning not to remove any flashing or perceived imperfections because the thing was actually balanced with small bits of plastic and removing flashing was enough to throw the balance off

ok ok but bearings and motors from the stoneage is hard to find new today    but in blade design 

And most AIO uses the same Rads and but on they fancy fans.. saying that Fans are balanced to the Radiator is far far from what is actually happening. 

 

I did a Temp test for some of the fans i have:

The THICC'est Rad that comes with an AIO (or used to come?) is the 45mm thicc on H80i. I did  900rpm test on that Rad with:

Vardar ARGB
Arctic P12
Corsair HD
Corsair ML

CM Mirage

 

And it did not look very good for the Vardar and ML ending up last

 

[Bombastinator]

39 minutes ago, NorKris said:

ok ok but bearings and motors from the stoneage is hard to find new today    but in blade design 

And most AIO uses the same Rads and but on they fancy fans.. saying that Fans are balanced to the Radiator is far far from what is actually happening. 

 

I did a Temp test for some of the fans i have:

The THICC'est Rad that comes with an AIO (or used to come?) is the 45mm thicc on H80i. I did  900rpm test on that Rad with:

Vardar ARGB
Arctic P12
Corsair HD
Corsair ML

CM Mirage

 

And it did not look very good for the Vardar and ML ending up last

 

They may not be.  They could be balanced the other way, or perhaps not at all in some situations.  They are at least tested to work with the radiator.  It may vary by manufacturer.  140&280mm rads for example are often thinner to accommodate the reduced pressure of 140mm fans

 

Fan tech and radiator tech was worked out a long time ago.  Fans peaked at the end of world war2. (Propellers for aircraft) I don’t know about radiators but water to air heat exchangers are not a new thing.  The radiator on a model T looks a lot like a modern one. There was a blip of invention some years ago when the FDB was invented.  Enlobal bearings came then too.  Also created the rise of noctua because they were the ones who bought FDB from its inventor.  Along with that was some materials changes which resulted in some better fans because the new materials were stronger and more ridged. All of that used algorithms developed long ago though.  

Edited March 29, 2021 by Bombastinator

[NorKris]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

They may not be.  They could be balanced the other way, or perhaps not at all in some situations.  They are at least tested to work with the radiator.  It may vary by manufacturer.  140&280mm rads for example are often thinner to accommodate the reduced pressure of 140mm fans

More strange claims.

 

I did a fast search in my local computer store. could not find one  280 AIO 25mm or thinner. they all 27 or 33mm.

almost. 

Can you repeat after me: ALL AIO fans have more than enough pressure to cool their Rad's well. Most 140 AIOFans are just a copy of their 120 little brother. 

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, NorKris said:

More strange claims.

 

I did a fast search in my local computer store. could not find one  280 AIO 25mm or thinner. they all 27 or 33mm.

almost. 

Can you repeat after me: ALL AIO fans have more than enough pressure to cool their Rad's well. Most 140 AIOFans are just a copy of their 120 little brother. 

It appears a review of the argument is necessary:

I don’t have to repeat after you.  I already said that.  This is not about AIO fans.  This is about Case fans being used as AIO fans which you said was fine.  You also said fans are not balanced for radiators and they simply use the cheapest available. I doubt this for several reasons.  One being the already mentioned point that a fan has to have enough static pressure to be able to blow through an AIO.  You denounced this with a claim about Fins Per Inch which didn’t make any sense to me. Another reason this is unlikely is because the cheapest type of fan uses a sleeve bearing.  Sleeve bearings have a major Achilles heel: if they are placed horizontally (like on a top mounted radiator) they wear out VERY quickly because gravity keeps them from libricating themselves.  Rifle bearings are just sleeve bearings with a spiral groove to help alleviate that problem.  FDB which is actually a brand name for a modified rifle bearing (there are several brand names which have widely differing cost and functionality) is a rifle bearing with additional micro grooves to further spread the lubricant. 
 

So basically a straight sleeve bearing fan wouldn’t be put on an AIO because it would wear out very quickly.  Most of the AIO fans I see have dual ball. A not as silent design which CAN be placed horizontally. Enlobal bearings, at least when I was buying fans also could not be placed horizontally because the maglev function didn’t work in that direction.  I suppose some sort of improvement that allowed that might possibly have been made though I can’t see how it would be done myself.

[NorKris]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It appears a review of the argument is necessary:

I don’t have to repeat after you.  I already said that.  This is not about AIO fans.  This is about Case fans being used as AIO fans which you said was fine.  You also said fans are not balanced for radiators and they simply use the cheapest available. I doubt this for several reasons.  One being the already mentioned point that a fan has to have enough static pressure to be able to blow through an AIO.  You denounced this with a claim about Fins Per Inch which didn’t make any sense to me. Another reason this is unlikely is because the cheapest type of fan uses a sleeve bearing.  Sleeve bearings have a major Achilles heel: if they are placed horizontally (like on a top mounted radiator) they wear out VERY quickly because gravity keeps them from libricating themselves.  Rifle bearings are just sleeve bearings with a spiral groove to help alleviate that problem.  FDB which is actually a brand name for a modified rifle bearing (there are several brand names which have widely differing cost and functionality) is a rifle bearing with additional micro grooves to further spread the lubricant. 
 

So basically a straight sleeve bearing fan wouldn’t be put on an AIO because it would wear out very quickly.  Most of the AIO fans I see have dual ball. A not as silent design which CAN be placed horizontally. Enlobal bearings, at least when I was buying fans also could not be placed horizontally because the maglev function didn’t work in that direction.  I suppose some sort of improvement that allowed that might possibly have been made though I can’t see how it would be done myself.

I did not say they use the cheapest fans they can find.. just look at many of the fancy RGB fans coming with corsairs AIO's, its clear they are not the cheapest.. but its not about performance.

 

Bad bearings might not last long .. ok but prove with testing that my claim is wrong:
(My claim: Adding 2(or 3) case casefans on a 240(or a 360) Rad for push pull is ok)

 

im waiting  

[Bombastinator]

22 minutes ago, NorKris said:

I did not say they use the cheapest fans they can find.. just look at many of the fancy RGB fans coming with corsairs AIO's, its clear they are not the cheapest.. but its not about performance.

 

Bad bearings might not last long .. ok but prove with testing that my claim is wrong:
(My claim: Adding 2(or 3) case casefans on a 240(or a 360) Rad for push pull is ok)

 

im waiting  

I have to prove that sleeve bearings don’t last as long as other bearings when set horizontally?!  That was done by others years ago. It’s the whole reason rifle and FDB bearings exist and they’ve been around for a long time too.  One of the easier ways to do this might be with the original hyper212 cooler.   One of the more famously sleeve bearing fans around is the fan on basic hyper212s (not such as the hyper212 black) tower cpu coolers almost always have vertically mounted fans.  The only way they can be horizontal is if the case or cooler is put in an unusual position.  They’re popular enough and have been around long enough that it happens though.  Sleeve bearing fans get very loud long before they go bad.  They can actually squeak in a plastic on plastic sort of way.   When so placed a sleeve bearing fan lasts only about a third as long as a FDB fan.  Too fast for a lot of AIO warranties.  When placed vertically a sleeve bearing fan still doesn’t last as long as a FDB fan but the difference is vastly less.  Something like 80% iirc.  

If one looks at hyper212 owners that have posted here complaining of fan noise. unacceptably close to purchase date you will I think find that they were people who had their fans set horizontally.  
 

Since a sleeve bearing fan frequently costs less than half as much, they can actually be a better value if placed vertically depending on how difficult access is.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Bombastinator

[NorKris]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I have to prove that sleeve bearings don’t last as long as other bearings when set horizontally?!  That was done by others years ago. It’s the whole reason rifle and FDB bearings exist and they’ve been around for a long time too.  One of the easier ways to do this might be with the original hyper212 cooler.   One of the more famously sleeve bearing fans around is the fan on basic hyper212s (not such as the hyper212 black) tower cpu coolers almost always have vertically mounted fans.  The only way they can be horizontal is if the case or cooler is put in an unusual position.  They’re popular enough and have been around long enough that it happens though.  Sleeve bearing fans get very loud long before they go bad.  They can actually squeak in a plastic on plastic sort of way.   When so placed a sleeve bearing fan lasts only about a third as long as a FDB fan.  Too fast for a lot of AIO warranties.  When placed vertically a sleeve bearing fan still doesn’t last as long as a FDB fan but the difference is vastly less.  Something like 80% iirc.  

If one looks at hyper212 owners that have posted here complaining of fan noise. unacceptably close to purchase date you will I think find that they were people who had their fans set horizontally.  
 

Since a sleeve bearing fan frequently costs less than half as much, they can actually be a better value if placed vertically depending on how difficult access is.

i agree with all this. im talking about temps. performance. 

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, NorKris said:

i agree with all this. im talking about temps. performance. 

ADDING fans? As in push pull?  I never even treated that.  Iirc someone else came out against push/pull for AIOs but it wasn’t me.  I have no dissenting opinion there.  This whole thing may be the result of a misquote.  That might even explain the fins per inch thing. Didn’t apply to my statement.  Might have to another persons post though.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Bombastinator

[NorKris]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

ADDING fans? As in push pull?  I never even treated that.  Iirc someone else came out against push/pull for AIOs but it wasn’t me.  I have no dissenting opinion there.  This whole thing may be the result of a misquote.  That might even explain the fins per inch thing. Didn’t apply to my statement.  Might have to another persons post though.

Fair enough. You cant underfan an AIO unless u bring ur old orange fans  

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, NorKris said:

Fair enough. You cant underfan an AIO unless u bring ur old orange fans  

I suspect that if run push/pull along with a fan the AIO came with even the orange fan might make it.  Instead of though might be a problem.  The thing IS old. Would have to be pre 2016. May be as early as the 2000’s

Edited March 29, 2021 by Bombastinator